Leak From Somewhere Beneath Tub

[Boglesnurf]

Hi Folks

First-time Spa owner. Found a Saratoga Spa "Putnam" FOR FREE at a yard sale. Looked it over; looks good. Owner says it has an electronics problem he doesn't want to deal with. Being an electronics tech, I thought 'no problem.' Got it home, made a concrete paver 'plinth' for it. Replaced some broken fittings (pressure switch in heater, heater 'ring-nut'), fixed the diverter valving (mostly; some clown installed the spools incorrectly, with the spool stop-skirt atop the body stop-lug, tightened it down, and then 'horsed' the levers until they broke; duhhhhh....), tightened a bunch of loose fittings). Filled it up and went to work on the electronics. Turned out to be nothing more than slight oxidation of conductors in topside interconnect cable. No jets at first; fixed an 'airbound' condition and tried again. Promptly blew the cap off one of the diverter valves; there was a crack around the threaded sleeve beneath the cap. Glue is setting up as I write this.

My question is this: The water level fell over two inches overnight; the concrete paver plinth is soaked, mostly along one wall. The inside surface of the spa is flawless, as far as I can tell, and I'm unable to move any of the many fittings and jets and such that populate the inside of the tub. The leak appears to be coming from somewhere beneath the tub. No visible wet within the controls/pump compartment. You can actually hear the water dripping underneath, along that wet wall, pretty much in one small area. This is a 'full-foam' unit. Is there any way, other than digging out foam until the leak is found, to pinpoint the source of this leak? I've seen references to dye, but is that really effective? Am I better off leaving it full and removing the side panels and digging it out, or is it a better idea to drain it and flip it vertical? The underside (seen while moving it) appears to be one big sheet of heavy-gauge plastic over a pallet-like structure; I'm not sure access would be much better this way.

Is there a "most effective" way to remove the foam, or is it just a matter of using a drywall saw (hand-saw) and prybars and chisels, and wire-brushes and whatever to dig it all out? I'd certainly be a LOT happier if I had a plumbing/routing diagram for this thing, so I would know what areas to target and what areas to ignore (really don't want to dig it ALL out...)

Last (for now, at least), should I replace the foam I dug out? What is typically used: great stuff (canned foam), or some bulk 'mix A&B, pour, and run' stuff? Is the foam for thermal insulation, structural support, plumbing support, any, all? I guess I'm asking if it's critical/structural, or just insulation.

Thanks in advance; any 'voice of experience' gratefully received.

Karl

Bristol, NH

[Roger]

Hi Folks

First-time Spa owner. Found a Saratoga Spa "Putnam" FOR FREE at a yard sale. Looked it over; looks good. Owner says it has an electronics problem he doesn't want to deal with. Being an electronics tech, I thought 'no problem.' Got it home, made a concrete paver 'plinth' for it. Replaced some broken fittings (pressure switch in heater, heater 'ring-nut'), fixed the diverter valving (mostly; some clown installed the spools incorrectly, with the spool stop-skirt atop the body stop-lug, tightened it down, and then 'horsed' the levers until they broke; duhhhhh....), tightened a bunch of loose fittings). Filled it up and went to work on the electronics. Turned out to be nothing more than slight oxidation of conductors in topside interconnect cable. No jets at first; fixed an 'airbound' condition and tried again. Promptly blew the cap off one of the diverter valves; there was a crack around the threaded sleeve beneath the cap. Glue is setting up as I write this.

My question is this: The water level fell over two inches overnight; the concrete paver plinth is soaked, mostly along one wall. The inside surface of the spa is flawless, as far as I can tell, and I'm unable to move any of the many fittings and jets and such that populate the inside of the tub. The leak appears to be coming from somewhere beneath the tub. No visible wet within the controls/pump compartment. You can actually hear the water dripping underneath, along that wet wall, pretty much in one small area. This is a 'full-foam' unit. Is there any way, other than digging out foam until the leak is found, to pinpoint the source of this leak? I've seen references to dye, but is that really effective? Am I better off leaving it full and removing the side panels and digging it out, or is it a better idea to drain it and flip it vertical? The underside (seen while moving it) appears to be one big sheet of heavy-gauge plastic over a pallet-like structure; I'm not sure access would be much better this way.

Is there a "most effective" way to remove the foam, or is it just a matter of using a drywall saw (hand-saw) and prybars and chisels, and wire-brushes and whatever to dig it all out? I'd certainly be a LOT happier if I had a plumbing/routing diagram for this thing, so I would know what areas to target and what areas to ignore (really don't want to dig it ALL out...)

Last (for now, at least), should I replace the foam I dug out? What is typically used: great stuff (canned foam), or some bulk 'mix A&B, pour, and run' stuff? Is the foam for thermal insulation, structural support, plumbing support, any, all? I guess I'm asking if it's critical/structural, or just insulation.

Thanks in advance; any 'voice of experience' gratefully received.

Karl

Bristol, NH

Sounds to me like your on the right track. Sometimes from the side can be easy. Sometimes you have to go from the bottom. Re-insulate if you want to save some pennys on electric use. Follow wet foam.

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

Sounds like this tub froze up. It may be easier to trace the leak if you add some dark food coloring into the water and let it soak through the foam then follow it. Even though the water is showing on one side, it may have started on the other side and followed the path of least resistance through the foam. You more than likley have some broken manifolds. You may have to repplace the foam for stuctual intergrety, depending on how much is removed. They sell a kit special for doing this. You have to be careful with spray on foam due to the heat it creates as it cures if you are doing a large area. We are also in NH(Charlestown) if you would like to call with questions.

[Boglesnurf]

Sounds like this tub froze up. It may be easier to trace the leak if you add some dark food coloring into the water and let it soak through the foam then follow it. Even though the water is showing on one side, it may have started on the other side and followed the path of least resistance through the foam. You more than likley have some broken manifolds. You may have to repplace the foam for stuctual intergrety, depending on how much is removed. They sell a kit special for doing this. You have to be careful with spray on foam due to the heat it creates as it cures if you are doing a large area. We are also in NH(Charlestown) if you would like to call with questions.

Looks like you hit it right on the head, Hilbilly! 2" PVC flex-pipe comes off jet pump to a wye and branches off to both ends of the spa; there's a triangular flap (intersecting splits) about 1-1/2" long about an inch before the wye, right at the lowest point in the whole system... water just a-pourin out once the foam went. Also found twin pin-stream leaks at another low point of the hose off the wye that goes to the far end of the spa. Also on that same hose, and this one doesn't fit the pattern of a poor winter-prep freeze-up, the foam under the rail is wet right at the diverter valve. Still unable to determine exactly where, but I'm still pickin' out the foam. Looks like maybe an incomplete glue-up from new.

Which flows nicely into the next question... how exactly does one go about replacing mid-run components when everything's glued in? It's like working with pipe, only worse, cause at least with pipe you can start at one end and start disassembling up to the repair, whereas with this stuff, it's all glued up into one big piece! Hacksaw segments out and use splice fittings to patch-in the repair? The voice of experience would be comforting right about now.

[topmahof]

Sounds like this tub froze up. It may be easier to trace the leak if you add some dark food coloring into the water and let it soak through the foam then follow it. Even though the water is showing on one side, it may have started on the other side and followed the path of least resistance through the foam. You more than likley have some broken manifolds. You may have to repplace the foam for stuctual intergrety, depending on how much is removed. They sell a kit special for doing this. You have to be careful with spray on foam due to the heat it creates as it cures if you are doing a large area. We are also in NH(Charlestown) if you would like to call with questions.

Looks like you hit it right on the head, Hilbilly! 2" PVC flex-pipe comes off jet pump to a wye and branches off to both ends of the spa; there's a triangular flap (intersecting splits) about 1-1/2" long about an inch before the wye, right at the lowest point in the whole system... water just a-pourin out once the foam went. Also found twin pin-stream leaks at another low point of the hose off the wye that goes to the far end of the spa. Also on that same hose, and this one doesn't fit the pattern of a poor winter-prep freeze-up, the foam under the rail is wet right at the diverter valve. Still unable to determine exactly where, but I'm still pickin' out the foam. Looks like maybe an incomplete glue-up from new.

Which flows nicely into the next question... how exactly does one go about replacing mid-run components when everything's glued in? It's like working with pipe, only worse, cause at least with pipe you can start at one end and start disassembling up to the repair, whereas with this stuff, it's all glued up into one big piece! Hacksaw segments out and use splice fittings to patch-in the repair? The voice of experience would be comforting right about now.

[topmahof]

schedule 40 unions from a plumbers supply house.