Raising Fc Level

[misterwhisker]

Hi All,

I'm new to this forum and wanted to get some advice about raising my FC levels.

Pool is a 15'x30'above ground -w- a vinyl liner (about 13,500 gallons)

Chlorine used is a 3" puck of trichloro-s-triazinetrione (90% available Cl)

Shock is trichloro-s-triazinetrione (55.5% available Cl)

I just did a complete test with my DPD test kit.

FC=0

TC=1

CYA=60

PH=7.4

Alkalinity=130

Calcium=120

The problem is that no matter how much shock I put in the pool (2 lbs+) the next day my FC levels are back to zero.

I put three gallons of liquid chlorine form the pool store and two days later the FC levels are back to zero again.

I would think that my CYA levels are high enough to keep the chlorine level up but I guess I'm wrong.

BTW-my chlorine and granule shock both have cya in it.

Should I just buy one or two gallons of household bleach and dump it in?

Never used bleach but the more that I read these forums it seems like a cheap alternative to chlorine.

Wadaya think??

[waterbear]

Hi All,

I'm new to this forum and wanted to get some advice about raising my FC levels.

Pool is a 15'x30'above ground -w- a vinyl liner (about 13,500 gallons)

Chlorine used is a 3" puck of trichloro-s-triazinetrione (90% available Cl)

Shock is trichloro-s-triazinetrione (55.5% available Cl)

I just did a complete test with my DPD test kit.

FC=0

TC=1

CYA=60

PH=7.4

Alkalinity=130

Calcium=120

The problem is that no matter how much shock I put in the pool (2 lbs+) the next day my FC levels are back to zero.

I put three gallons of liquid chlorine form the pool store and two days later the FC levels are back to zero again.

I would think that my CYA levels are high enough to keep the chlorine level up but I guess I'm wrong.

BTW-my chlorine and granule shock both have cya in it.

Should I just buy one or two gallons of household bleach and dump it in?

Never used bleach but the more that I read these forums it seems like a cheap alternative to chlorine.

Wadaya think??

Bleach IS chlorine, specifically sodium hypochlorite. No different than the liquid chlorine sold for pool use and in many cases exactly the same strength! Pool chlorine is usually 6%, 10%, or 12.5 %. Bleach is 6%, 5.25%, or 3%. If you go the bleach route get the 6% or 5.25%. It is an unstabilized chlorine (same as cal hypo and lithium hypochlorite) so it will not raise CYA. I would stop the trichlor right now with a CYA level of 60 ppm or you will be asking for trouble. Ditto for dichlor, often sold as shock. Cal Hypo shock is fine but mure expensive than bleach and will cause calcium levels to increase.

With a CYA of 60 ppm you want to maintain your FC at about 5-8 ppm at all times. When you shock you need to shock to 20 ppm. I suspect that you are not keeping your FC up there and have a constant nascent algae bloom consuming your chlorine. The fact that the only chlorine in your water is 1 ppm CC (TC-FC-CC) supports this. CC should always be below .5 ppm!

BTW, three gal of 6% bleach would only raise your FC by 14 ppm in 13.5k gal and 5.25% by 12 ppm, hardly shock level with a CYA of 60!

[misterwhisker]

Thanks for the information.

My test kit only goes up to 2.5ppm for chlorine.

How do I measure huge amounts like 12 or even 20ppm?

I have about 20 kids coming over for a birthday party today.

How much bleach can I "safely" add before the party (in four hours) so that I don't have kids complaining about burning eyes.

Hi All,

I'm new to this forum and wanted to get some advice about raising my FC levels.

Pool is a 15'x30'above ground -w- a vinyl liner (about 13,500 gallons)

Chlorine used is a 3" puck of trichloro-s-triazinetrione (90% available Cl)

Shock is trichloro-s-triazinetrione (55.5% available Cl)

I just did a complete test with my DPD test kit.

FC=0

TC=1

CYA=60

PH=7.4

Alkalinity=130

Calcium=120

The problem is that no matter how much shock I put in the pool (2 lbs+) the next day my FC levels are back to zero.

I put three gallons of liquid chlorine form the pool store and two days later the FC levels are back to zero again.

I would think that my CYA levels are high enough to keep the chlorine level up but I guess I'm wrong.

BTW-my chlorine and granule shock both have cya in it.

Should I just buy one or two gallons of household bleach and dump it in?

Never used bleach but the more that I read these forums it seems like a cheap alternative to chlorine.

Wadaya think??

Bleach IS chlorine, specifically sodium hypochlorite. No different than the liquid chlorine sold for pool use and in many cases exactly the same strength! Pool chlorine is usually 6%, 10%, or 12.5 %. Bleach is 6%, 5.25%, or 3%. If you go the bleach route get the 6% or 5.25%. It is an unstabilized chlorine (same as cal hypo and lithium hypochlorite) so it will not raise CYA. I would stop the trichlor right now with a CYA level of 60 ppm or you will be asking for trouble. Ditto for dichlor, often sold as shock. Cal Hypo shock is fine but mure expensive than bleach and will cause calcium levels to increase.

With a CYA of 60 ppm you want to maintain your FC at about 5-8 ppm at all times. When you shock you need to shock to 20 ppm. I suspect that you are not keeping your FC up there and have a constant nascent algae bloom consuming your chlorine. The fact that the only chlorine in your water is 1 ppm CC (TC-FC-CC) supports this. CC should always be below .5 ppm!

BTW, three gal of 6% bleach would only raise your FC by 14 ppm in 13.5k gal and 5.25% by 12 ppm, hardly shock level with a CYA of 60!

[waterbear]

Thanks for the information.

My test kit only goes up to 2.5ppm for chlorine.

How do I measure huge amounts like 12 or even 20ppm?

Get yourself a Taylor K-2006 test kit or any other kit that uses the FAS-DPD titration test for chlorine. The test kit you have is basically useless!

I have about 20 kids coming over for a birthday party today.

How much bleach can I "safely" add before the party (in four hours) so that I don't have kids complaining about burning eyes.

Free chlorine does not cause burning eyes, conbined chlorines (chloramines) do. Burning eyes is a good indicator of not enough chlorine!

If your current FC is 0 ppm and CC is 1 ppm as you posted I would add three gallons of bleach, either 5.25% or 6% AN HOUR OR TWO BEFORE SWIMMING. This will stilll be swimmable with a CYA of 60 ppm and should not smell like chlorine!

1 gallon of 6% bleach will raise your 13.5k gallon pool about 4.5 ppm FC and 5.25% will raise it about 4 ppm. With a CYA of 60 ppm I would go in the water with the FC as high as 15 ppm with no problem.

After the pool party I would shock to pool to about 20-25 ppm (probably about another 2-3 gallons of bleach, can't really tell without testing)

[dalehileman]

whisk, I was very interested in your problem and bear's replies as it exactly parallels mine though my pool is huge in-ground. In fact, queries at various pool boards confirms my suspicion that tabs alone won't maintain the required FC and so you have to supplement it somehow

After 12 years accumulating a CYA of 100-150 at one point I had tossed in 19 tabs without a significant increase in FC subsequent to which my Better Half and I as well as a couple of visiting swimmers experienced skin problems whereupon we were advised to drain half the pool. Owing to a perhaps fortunate miscalculation I accordingly replaced 2/3 before routinely tossing in a half-dozen tabs and about 1/2 gal supermarket algi-clari

As suggested by several pool sharks, I now supplement the tabs weekly by 2 lb of Shock Quick, a tricolor (that's a minimum dose). After running the pump for the better part of couple of days it's now crystal clear and though it's still early, no skin rash, fingers crossed rigidly. To raise the FC a bit I had proposed to apply bleach as suggested by bear above but my Life's Partner nixed this approach and I listen to her as she's much smarter than I

My FC runs now somewhere between 0.4 and 1.0 which I realize is below recommended levels. However, I've been advised if you regularly also apply an algi you can tolerate a lower level of FC. But please don't take my word for this as the recommendation didn't give actual figures. Incidentally replacing 2/3 of the water has evidently reduced the CYA to somewhere between 30 and 100 just as one would calculate

While tabs are reputed to increase CYA I do intend to keep my eye on its concentration. Admittedly my tricolor shock is not widely approved as bear intimates but I have a large amount on hand from a recent sale but surely won't go another 13 years before again replacing the water

[waterbear]

whisk, I was very interested in your problem and bear's replies as it exactly parallels mine though my pool is huge in-ground. In fact, queries at various pool boards confirms my suspicion that tabs alone won't maintain the required FC and so you have to supplement it somehow

After 12 years accumulating a CYA of 100-150 at one point I had tossed in 19 tabs without a significant increase in FC subsequent to which my Better Half and I as well as a couple of visiting swimmers experienced skin problems whereupon we were advised to drain half the pool. Owing to a perhaps fortunate miscalculation I accordingly replaced 2/3 before routinely tossing in a half-dozen tabs and about 1/2 gal supermarket algi-chlori

As suggested by several pool sharks, I now supplement the tabs weekly by 2 lb of Shock Quick, a tricolor (that's a minimum dose). After running the pump for the better part of couple of days it's now crystal clear and though it's still early, no skin rash, fingers crossed rigidly. To raise the FC a bit I had proposed to apply bleach as suggested by bear above but my Life's Partner nixed this approach and I listen to her as she's much smarter than I

My FC runs now somewhere between 0.4 and 1.0 which I realize is below recommended levels. However, I've been advised if you regularly also apply an algi you can tolerate a lower level of FC. But please don't take my word for this as the recommendation didn't give actual figures. Incidentally replacing 2/3 of the water has evidently reduced the CYA to somewhere between 30 and 100 just as one would calculate

While tabs are reputed to increase CYA I do intend to keep my eye on its concentration. Admittedly my tricolor shock is not widely approved as bear intimates but I have a large amount on hand from a recent sale but surely won't go another 13 years before again replacing the water

This is basically bad advice from a poster who regularly posts on various boards and never listens to any of the advice given and then continues to complain when problems are not fixed. I would ignore it.

However, you might be interested in the following about this poster:

Read this. (If you wonder why keep checking out the links)

and this (thread was locked)

and this

and this

and this (This one is a must read!)

and this (This also, he got banned on this board for three days in this thread)

and this

and this

and this (thread was locked)

and this

and this

and this (this is a good example, the thread got locked. Be sure to read the second page also!!)

and this

and this (be sure to read down to the last three posts on page one and the posts at the top of page two, they say a LOT. This thread was locked also!))

There are many more examples.

[dalehileman]

Whisk, for what it's worth (which Inspector Javert above might assert isn't much) it's becoming increasingly clear that Kem-Tek's "5 steps" must be on the right track. For some 12 years I successfully (?) used only a weekly routine entailing replenishment of the tabs and the supermarket algi-clari that upon reading the label turns out to be their #4. However on the recommendation of several board participants here and about I now add the minimal dose of shock which by sheer chance turned out to be Kem-Tek's #3

However during that first decade or so I couldn't open my eyes under water so eventually began using soda ash in varying doses. Well, again by only the sheerest coincidence what my Better Half brought from Home Depot was their #1. Curious about the remainder I found in our garage an empty jar of Kem-Tek clari. Well, that's presumably included in our #4, leaving only #2 to pique our curiousity

A quick Googling immediately revealed the identity of #2 which--and believe it or not by the sheerest kind of accordance--turns out to be a phenol red I already had on hand and which I believe my Life's Companion had acquired from Lowe's

So whisk thank you for the opportunity to relate this story and if by the most unlikely happenstance it helps in your quest I would be much gratified

No doubt Javert will rend me limb from limb for not ending paragraphs with punctuation

[waterbear]

A quick Googling immediately revealed the identity of #2 which--and believe it or not by the sheerest kind of accordance--turns out to be a phenol red I already had on hand and which I believe my Life's Companion had acquired from Lowe's

Just to illustrate how bad the advice from this poster is and how clueless he really is, he is confusing the phenol red pH reagent, which is Kem-Tek reagent #2 in the Kem-Tek line of test kits (not very good kits, btw)

http://largeapplianc...pa-accessories/

http://www.amazon.co...s/dp/B000LNRKCW

with step 2 of the Kem-Tek 5 step program, which is to chlorinate the pool!

http://www.kem-tek.com/products.html

Like I said before, it is bad advice from a poster who only posts for attention and I would ignore it.

[dalehileman]

Aha! I had wondered why #2 wasn't in the same league with the rest. Whatever else you think of Javert, he does often come up with the right answer

[waterbear]

Aha! I had wondered why #2 wasn't in the same league with the rest. Whatever else you think of Javert, he does often come up with the right answer

And you sir, are a real jerk who is a forum annoyance. You need to get a life!

DO NOT FEED THE TROLL!

[misterwhisker]

Wow!

And all I was trying to do was get some simple pool chemistry advice.

Who knew that there was such drama in a pool forum.

Waterbear, thanks for all the advice you have given me.

I think the chlorine eating algae is hiding under my pool stairs.

There is not much circulation under there and that is usually the first place it shows up.

Aha! I had wondered why #2 wasn't in the same league with the rest. Whatever else you think of Javert, he does often come up with the right answer

And you sir, are a real jerk who is a forum annoyance. You need to get a life!

DO NOT FEED THE TROLL!

[waterbear]

Wow!

And all I was trying to do was get some simple pool chemistry advice.

Who knew that there was such drama in a pool forum.

Not just here but in two other pool forums I know of. A satellite TV forum that I belong to, a few different writers forums, and a garden forum.

Waterbear, thanks for all the advice you have given me.

You are welcome.

I think the chlorine eating algae is hiding under my pool stairs.

There is not much circulation under there and that is usually the first place it shows up.

Very possibly. Drop in steps are often a problem. If you have more than one return you can try playing around with them to see how you can get the best circulation underwater.

Also, with 60 ppm CYA I would stop using any form of stabilized chlorine (trichlor tabs or dichlor granules) and start chlorinating with bleach or cal hypo (bleach has fewer side effects but your calcium hardness is very low so there is no reason you couldn't use cal hypo if you wanted). You will need to add a small amount of chlorine every evening to maintain the levels of about 5 ppm FC. Do this one you eradicate the 'under the steps algae' and I think you will find it solves the problem as long as you keep the FC at about 5 ppm or a bit higher.

Sorry for the confusion but, as you can see by his posts he IS a problem and does like to create a disturbance. I had dealings with him on a different forum that I used to moderate so I know his tricks.

[dalehileman]

I am wondering in the meantime for participants using a supplementary algicide (various chlorides and dichlorides) on a regular basis, just how much lower than the usual 1.0-3.0 level can one let his FC safely get

Or am I totally wrong about this, whisk, and the usual FC measurement is also raised by that separate product; in which case tricolor and copper tabs as well as the separate algicide wouldn't be enough and to gain the desired FC then as bear suggests you'd have to add still another product such as bleach

Thus if you count a regular shock application, you'd be using four different compounds just to control FC

This could be pretty important to some of us who have experienced serious skin conditions after the addition of numerous chemicals so still wondering if 1.0-3.0 is the customary goal how far below this value (given a CYA of say 30-40) is it safe to allow your FC to drop

[waterbear]

I am wondering in the meantime for participants using a supplementary algicide (various chlorides and dichlorides) on a regular basis, just how much lower than the usual 1.0-3.0 level can one let his FC safely get

Chlorides are not algaecides nor are they used in pools, unless you are talking about sodium chloride, salt, which is used with a salt water chlorine generator. Diclorides can refer to any chemical that contains two chlorine atoms. The only once used is pools is dichlor, dichloro-s-triazinetrione, which should never be used as an algaecide since it will cause stabilizer levels to rise too fast. Before posting please find out what you are talking about because this is nonsense which is what you usually post.

Or am I totally wrong about this

In a word , yes.

, whisk, and the usual FC measurement is also raised by that separate product; in which case tricolor and copper tabs as well as the separate algicide wouldn't be enough and to gain the desired FC then as bear suggests you'd have to add still another product such as bleach

You have been told time and again on this and other pool forums for the past two years that the level of FC required in a pool is dependant on the level of CYA present in the water but yo still insist on posting this nonsense.

Thus if you count a regular shock application, you'd be using four different compounds just to control FC

This could be pretty important to some of us who have experienced serious skin conditions after the addition of numerous chemicals so still wondering if 1.0-3.0 is the customary goal how far below this value (given a CYA of say 30-40) is it safe to allow your FC to drop

With a CYA of 30-40 ppm it is not safe to let the FC drop below 3 ppm, you have been told this before also.

Also, you are hijacking another poster's thread which is just plain rude but that is what you do, isn't it?

DO NOT FEED THE TROLL!

[dalehileman]

Just trying to be helpful

Really

[waterbear]

Just trying to be helpful

Really

But you are not. You are trying to get attention. If you listened to the advice given to you and put it into practice instead of just endlessly debating and criticizing and allowing your ignorance to show it might be different.

Does it bother you at all that you are considered an internet nuisance on so many forums that you ended up in the Urban Dictionary?

Are you proud of the fact that you are an internet troll?

Misterwhiskers,

sorry about the thread hijack.

[dalehileman]

"Does it bother you at all that you are considered an internet nuisance on so many forums that you ended up in the Urban Dictionary?"

Can't comment on account of pending lawsut

[waterbear]

"Does it bother you at all that you are considered an internet nuisance on so many forums that you ended up in the Urban Dictionary?"

Can't comment on account of pending lawsut

THE TROLL HAS SPOKEN. DO NOT FEED THE TROLL.

To dalehileman, if that is true perhaps you should not be posting in ANY internet forums or boards of any kind!

(Then again, when I asked you about your "approaching Alzheimer's" that you mention in different forums you chose not to comment on that also. You have also represented yourself as being anywhere from in your 50s to in your 80s in different forums. Anyone else's BS meter going off besides mine?)