This Pool Is Making Me Crazy!

[lefty23751]

OK, I am just going to dive right in since this is going to be a long post.

I have an intex 15ft round by 4ft deep pool (5000 gallons roughly) with a 1.5hp sand filter system. All this started the other day when I went to add some ph plus to my pool as it was 6.8 and one of the kids bumped me and i added about half ( or more) of a 4lb bottle of hth ph plus powder. The pool instantly went cloudy and wont let up. What I have done since is used 3 lbs of super shock (today), and about 15 ounces of clarifier over the last 72 hours. I have tried to vacuum the pool twice now, but vacuum head came off of pole today and since its so cloudy I cant find it. It is cloudy enough that i cant see the bottom of the thermometer that is hanging from the side of the pool.

My readings using an hth 6 in 1 drop test are:

PH 7.8

TA 120

CYA 0

TC well above 5 (probably from shock)

TH 0

A better timeline is: ph plus added 72 hours ago (instant cloudy), 5 ounces clarifier and 1 lb of shock added 60 hrs ago, 5 ounces clarifier added 36 hrs ago, 3 lbs super shock and 5 ounces clarifier added 12 hrs ago, and finally cya 42 ounces by volume added 15 minutes ago.

I have also backwashed the filter at 60 hours ago before adding chemicals, and again a 1 minute backwash just before adding the cya.

I am unable to get the pool to clear at all, and according to tests my levels are good or will be after adding the cya and letting the chlorine dissipate a bit. Hard to understand why the ph is only 7.8 after adding that much ph plus, but who knows.

Does anyone have any ideas as to how to clear the cloudiness? Also I should add it is more a milky than cloudy and using my leaf skimmer I can almost grab the milkiness from the water if that makes sense.

I will also get a new set of readings in the morning to see if the cya has helped. Thanks so much for reading and at this point I will try anything but draining the pool a bunch.

[lefty23751]

Also forgot to add that i have been running the filter constantly since adding the ph+

A thought came to me just now. I am wondering if I should shut the pump off for the night to allow the particles to sink to the bottom then try to vacuum in the morning. Maybe with the pump constantly running it isn't allowing the particles to settle but they are to small for the sand to catch. Just a thought.

[fmjnax]

It kind of sounds like the issue I was battling last weekend. I'm still quite new to this stuff, so I wouldn't take it as a guarantee, but it's worth a shot. I have almost the same setup (the 15'x3.5' Intex pool).

Try dumping in a bottle of standard bleach (unscented and one that specifically shows the percentage on the label; 6%). This should super chlorinate your pool. When I did this, almost overnight, my cloudy water (I had the same kind of cloudy, where it was certaily floating/suspended stuff in the water) cleared up a fair bit and had "muck" on the botton that I could then vacuum out. I kept my chlorine up in the 20ppm range and vacuumed the new muck up every day until it was clear again.

Also, to get your pH back down to about 7.5, add in some muriatic acid. (Use http://www.poolcalculator.com/ to see how much to add. http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-school/recommended_levels says that 7.8 is ok, albeit on the high end, though. I would get another opinion on lowering the pH, since I'm not certain if 7.8 is acceptable or not.

I hope some of this can be of some use.

[lefty23751]

Well the bleach idea is what i had done with the 3lbs of super shock. That brought my chlorine levels way up, and you could smell the chlorine from about 10 feet away from the pool. I am not sure if the bleach is a different type therefore works differently or not, but I am afraid to add any more chlorine at this time or it may be a month before I can use it again safely.

I do appreciate the reply, and I could be wrong, but will wait for further replies before adding anymore chlorine as I am new to this.

[quantumchromodynamics]

You have added too much sodium carbonate (pH increaser). If the granular shock is calcium hypochlorite, then that just made it worse. What is the chemical ingredient in the granular shock?

You have also added too much shock. 4 pounds will raise your chlorine by at least 30 ppm or more, 70 ppm if it is calcium hypochlorite. Don't add any more chlorine. You should add about 1 pound of chlorine neutralizer (sodium thiosulfate) to reduce your chlorine levels back to safer levels.

Once that is done, wait about 2 hours and then add 1 quart of 31.45 % muriatic acid. Dilute the acid 10:1 in a plastic bucket. Always add acid to water when diluting. Never add water to acid.

I would recommend that you not use any more clarifier.

Also note that your pH and other tests will not be accurate until your chlorine comes down to a lower level.

[lefty23751]

Spa guru,

Thanks for the reply. I am using hypo shock, but I also did that to reach my break point as I have never done that since opening the pool this year, at least thats what I read I should have done, but I think I am doing too many things at once.

I did read somewhere that I should shut off the filter system after adding the clarifier to allow the particles to sink, so I decided a bit ago to shut it off for the night and see what happens by morning. I will swing into the pool store tomorrow as well and get some chlorine neutralizer to get it back down, as well as the hardware store for some muriatic acid (have to go there to get a new pressure gauge anyways).

I am going to see what it looks like in the morning after pump is off, possibly vacuum, and get another set of readings. I will post that info and we can decide how much of what to add to get it back to safe again. Any ideas on when the cloudiness will disappear and will getting the ph lowered do that or is it going to have to filter it'self out? I did notice with the pump not running and shining a flashlight into the pool I could see millions of tiny particles floating that i thought the pump would take care of but obviously not or at least not yet.

Thanks

[quantumchromodynamics]

I am using hypo shock, but I also did that to reach my break point as I have never done that since opening the pool this year, at least thats what I read I should have done

There really isn't any need to shock unless you have something in the water that needs to be oxidized, and going to 70 ppm is way too high. Your shock level is based on your cyanuric acid level. You can calculate your shock level by using the Pool Calculator.

What is the actual ingredient listed on the container of "hypo shock"?

You should get an FAS-DPD chlorine test kit, such as the Taylor K-2006 to test your water. I understand that it is an expensive test kit. However, I know it will save you a lot of money in the long run by allowing you to have exact control over your chemistry so that you can use the minimum about of chemicals and get the absolute best results with the least amount of work.

I think I am doing too many things at once

Yes, it is important to take thing slowly, and in the proper order.

I did read somewhere that I should shut off the filter system after adding the clarifier to allow the particles to sink, so I decided a bit ago to shut it off for the night and see what happens by morning.

Some clarifiers do work better with the system off to allow the particles to sink. This type is called "floc". If your product says "drop-out" or "floc, then it is designed to work with the system off. The directions should say if the filter should stay on or not.

If the product does not say floc or drop-out or instruct you to turn off the filter, then you would do better with the system on.

If the particles do fall to the bottom, then they should be vacuumed to waste. If you try to vacuum through the filter, then the mess will just end up back in the pool.

If you can't vacuum to waste, then it is often better to leave the filter on, and it will eventually clear.

Any ideas on when the cloudiness will disappear and will getting the ph lowered do that or is it going to have to filter it'self out?

Lowering the pH with muriatic acid should help a lot.

Your total hardness is reporting as 0 ppm. That is probably not an accurate number. Have the water tested for Calcium Hardness, not Total Hardness. If your water contains copper, then the copper will interfere with the hardness test. When having the water tested for Calcium Hardness, make sure that the tester does the modified test to eliminate copper ion interference.

When adding the sodium thiosulfate, add 0.5 pounds and then retest. If your chlorine is still too high, then add 0.25 pounds. Continue to add smaller amounts until your chlorine tests within reasonable levels. Mix the sodium thiosulfate in 4 gallons of water and pour it in the pool. Allow about 30 to 60 minutes before you retest. This will help you add the right amount without adding too much.

In the future, I recommend that you not use sodium carbonate. The tendency to cloud the water is exactly what I don't like about it. I stopped using it years ago. I recommend using baking soda if the pH needs to be raised. I know it raises the total alkalinity, however, if the pH needs to be raised, then the total alkalinity is usually too low anyway.

Note: Although the Pool Calculator shows relatively minor pH changes when adding baking soda, the calculations are not accurate for a pH below 7.2. A pH below 7.2 will show significant improvement when adding baking soda.

If the pH is at least 7.2, and the TA is high enough, then you do not need to raise the pH. It will rise on its own. If it does not rise on its own to the correct level, then the TA is too low.

[lefty23751]

quantumchromodynamics,

Thanks for the reply again. Bottle of clarifier didn't state whether to leave filter on or not, but off didn't change anything. i did check tc this morning and still off the charts so going to pick up the chemicals you requested in your post and start with that. I will add the sodium thiosulfate in stages as you stated and then the acid and post back with the results afterwards. Will be later this evening.

Thanks

[fmjnax]

Quantum mentioned the Taylor K-2006. If you can't get the full kit now, I found that Leslie's sells just the chlorine/pH portion of this kit for about $12. You can use it and your current test to handle the TC/FC/CC.

[lefty23751]

We are making some great progress. I added the muriatic acid first, since I was able to get to the hardware store early and the pool was clear in about 5 minutes. Now i am back home again and did a quick vacuum, which stirred up more white particles and cloudiness than anything, but at least i can see the bottom to be able to know...lol I have added 0.5lbs of chlorine reducer, waited about an hour and took a full set of readings again, and here are the results:

(same drop test kit I used last time)

TC: 1

PH: 72

TA: 100

TH: 240

CYA: 90

I also used a dip stick hth test strip that tests for FC and it showed 0 (probably not real reliable) But If need be I will take a water sample by the pool store to get a better test done on it as money is tight to buy a nice expensive test kit right now.

After stirring up the pool bottom it got cloudy again, but I have a feeling it will take a couple of vacuums to get rid of that, and looking at the tests I now know it is safe enough to get in the pool to do the vacuum so that will be much more productive. I am also vacuuming to waste so as to not send it back to the pool again.

Let me know what you think, and where to go from here so i can keep the pool clean and chlorinated. I have always had a problem keeping the chlorine in the water, but now that I have added cya (didn't know I needed to until all of this) I have a feeling that wont be such a problem.

I also want to thank you for all of your help, I wish I had come here before adding any chemicals to the pool as well as bought a decent test kit so I knew exactly how much to add.

[quantumchromodynamics]

I think that using regular, unscented 6.0 % bleach, or 10 to 12 % liquid chlorine will work best for you. With a cyanuric acid of 90 ppm, you will want to keep the chlorine at a very consistent 5.0 ppm. Any less and you risk an algae outbreak.

Cyanuric acid acts like a dimmer switch. With no cyanuric acid in the water, the chlorine is too reactive and it is quickly lost. Adding cyanuric acid turns down the reactivity of the chlorine to a lower level so that it lasts longer and it does not attack things so aggressively. However, if you use too much cyanuric acid, the chlorine won't be active enough to kill algae faster than it can grow.

You don't want to use trichlor or dichlor as they both add a lot of cyanuric acid. 90 ppm is slightly above the recommended maximum. You will be OK as long as you maintain at least 5 ppm at all times. Over time, the cyanuric acid level will come down through regular dilution.

I also recommend that you avoid calcium hypochlorite. It does not dissolve well and it clouds the water.