Swg's And Bioguard Mineral Springs

[Newbie310]

Good morning,

We recently had an inground pool installed in our backyard. It was completed late last year and was not started (we live in Ontario, Canada). We opted for a salt water pool and have a Zodiac Clearwater LM2-24 system.

The contractor is also an exclusive Bioguard dealer. Being newbie's to this, we are following his instructions however there have been a few bumps along the way. Needless to say that once we figure out and get more comfortable with water chemistry, we can cut the umbilical cord.

We followed these instructions to get our pool going (all Bioguard of course):

Our saturation index is -0.45 so we have been instructed to add "Burn-Out", "Polygard", "Stabilizer 100", "Balance Pak 100" and lastly "Balance Pak 300". This is over the course of 4 days.

Lastly is the salt but they have given us the Bioguard Mineral Springs "Beginnings". We didn't think anything of this until we had time to do some research on salts on the internet. We thought salt was salt but apparently we bought gold. Luckily, we haven't paid for it yet so I think it is going back and that is why I'm posting.

I am of the opinion I just need salt (ie. Sifto brand in Ontario). Are there any comments regarding this Mineral Springs product vs salt? It is being marketed as a 'spa' experience and all we are looking for is a great pool experience which is easy on the skin. As well, are we tying ourselves too tightly to this Bioguard regimen by the dealer? He is one of the few (if not only) water test places in town and we don't want to get adversarial with him post pool warranty.

Thanks for any help and your patience with these "Newbies"!!

[polyvue]

The contractor is also an exclusive Bioguard dealer. Being newbie's to this, we are following his instructions however there have been a few bumps along the way. Needless to say that once we figure out and get more comfortable with water chemistry, we can cut the umbilical cord.

We followed these instructions to get our pool going (all Bioguard of course):

Our saturation index is -0.45 so we have been instructed to add "Burn-Out", "Polygard", "Stabilizer 100", "Balance Pak 100" and lastly "Balance Pak 300". This is over the course of 4 days.

Lastly is the salt but they have given us the Bioguard Mineral Springs "Beginnings". We didn't think anything of this until we had time to do some research on salts on the internet. We thought salt was salt but apparently we bought gold. Luckily, we haven't paid for it yet so I think it is going back and that is why I'm posting.

I am of the opinion I just need salt (ie. Sifto brand in Ontario). Are there any comments regarding this Mineral Springs product vs salt? It is being marketed as a 'spa' experience and all we are looking for is a great pool experience which is easy on the skin. As well, are we tying ourselves too tightly to this Bioguard regimen by the dealer? He is one of the few (if not only) water test places in town and we don't want to get adversarial with him post pool warranty.

It's curious that Bioguard sells a salt product in two flavors ("Beginnings" and "Renewal"), the latter being priced more closely with regular old pool salt and the first at double the price. Since many (all?) Bioguard products are rebranded generic chemicals that can be had for less money, it would make sense to document the constituents and to buy generic or less costly brands (see this thread). I'd look around for where you can get regular pool salt (sodium chloride) or any bulk salt that doesn't have additives (rust inhibitors, idiode). In the US pool salt is typically priced at US$5.00-$10.00 for 40 lbs. But I think if you check hardware stores it can be had for even less money.

Though it's certainly understandable that you want to maintain a relationship with the pool store, you'll have to determine whether the services they provide are worth the high cost of products. Since doing your own testing can free you from having to visit so often, why not invest in a test kit and do it yourself? The Taylor K-2006 FAS/DPD kit is available in Canada and that would be one I'd recommend.

[poolguyinsc]

There is no comparison between regular salt and Mineral Springs Beginnings. Regular salt is just that...salt. Mineral Springs has the salt plus much more. The salt in Mineral springs has been purified so it does not contain any unwanted compounds or minerals like Iodine. Also, it contains SilkGuard which helps prevent scale formation and softens the water. There is a borate additive that helps prevent algae growth and SunShield which protects chlorine from degrading due to sunlight. The Renewal is just a weekly or biweekly replenishing product that makes up for losses due to evaporation and other forms of water loss.

Regular salt is much cheaper, but it is only salt. I have customers that use both and those who are on Mineral Springs swear by it. The water quality is incredible.

Basically, Mineral Springs is salt, stabilizer, scale inhibitor, and Optimizer Plus all in one. It is a premium product and is more expensive than regular salt. You pool will thank you for using it.

[Newbie310]

Thanks for both the opinions.

The purified salt sold at a hardware store is $11.00 per 20 kilograms. The Mineral springs is $18.00 per 10 kilograms.

I agree with your comments regarding the dealer. There is no special or differential treatment despite him building the pool for us.

I did call him and he stated that he could not guarantee the warranty regarding corrosion (he mentioned the ladder and any other metals if we went with regular purified salt). He does our testing for free BUT only if we buy the chemicals from him. I am in the process of documenting the contents of all of the chemicals sold to us and then comparing the contents/ingredients/price with others. I don't mind paying for these from him to ensure the pool gets up and running properly.

He mentioned that the vinyl liner will deteriorate much quicker with regular purified salt than with the Mineral Springs product.

[polyvue]

I did call him and he stated that he could not guarantee the warranty regarding corrosion (he mentioned the ladder and any other metals if we went with regular purified salt).

I can't imagine why other than he's being protective of his sales and profits. Assuming that you keep your water balanced and salt at the recommended level, risk of corrosion would be the same regardless of the brand of salt --- it's all just sodium chloride. The extra "conditioners" that may be added along with the so-called premium product are likely just pH buffers or cyanuric acid. You can adjust Total Alkalinity (TA), Calcium Hardness (CH) and Stabilizer (aka conditioner, cyanuric acid or CYA) yourself with sodium bicarbonate (baking soda), calcium and CYA granules. You can also add borates on the cheap: 20 Mule Team Borax works.

He does our testing for free BUT only if we buy the chemicals from him. I am in the process of documenting the contents of all of the chemicals sold to us and then comparing the contents/ingredients/price with others. I don't mind paying for these from him to ensure the pool gets up and running properly.

He mentioned that the vinyl liner will deteriorate much quicker with regular purified salt than with the Mineral Springs product.

This seems like nonsense to my ears. I wonder what the basis for this assertion would be.

[Newbie310]

Thanks Polyvue and I agree. A couple of final questions then ...

He only had a enough bags of Beginnings to achieve a salt concentration of 2600 ppm. He said it was OK to run the SWG at this concentration until more bags of Beginning arrive (next week) although everything else I've read says this low concentration will damage the cell.

Moving on, my plan is to simply add purified salt sold at the hardware store to get a concentration close to 4000 ppm. I will then simply test the water regularly and add salt as required and other chemicals as required. He didn't think it was a big deal of me having to add Bioguard Renewal every week to the tune of 5.5 x 4 lbs bags. And I thought, to a greater extent, that these SWG pools were supposed to fend for themselves?!?!?!

Is there any issue with adding the purified salt to this Bioguard Beginnings product to get my salt levels elevated?

[jkusmier]

No offense intended, poolguyinsc, but you're right - Minerals Springs Beginnings (and Renewal, for that matter) does indeed have "salt plus much more." The point is that not only the salt but also the "much more" are commercially available in generic and much less expensive forms. I read the MSDS sheets for Beginnings and Renewal some years ago - before BioGuard removed them from its website. If memory serves, Beginnings contained salt, sodium tetraborate pentahydrate and CYA, and Renewal added another ingredient, an aluminum salt (flocculent). Now we know why Bioguard removed the MSDS's from its website!

Is Mineral Springs convenient? Absolutely. Is it much more expensive than a little homework and generic forms of these same chems? Absolutely. I don't doubt that pool owners "who are on Mineral Springs swear by it" - but there are alot of pool owners who swear by use of less-expensive chems and enjoy excellent water quality. I'm one of them - I use regular solar salt, baking soda and lower-cost pool chems (like HTH stabilizer) and my water has been crystal clear, balanced and very, very stable all season long for the past 3 seasons.

Newbie310, I'd recommend that you purchase some solar salt (99.5% purity, available in 40lb bags at hardware stores). Before you add any salt, however, it's critical to use a reliable testing method (Aquachek white strips are considered very accurate - although, admittedly, I experienced a discrepancy between the readings on the strips and my generator's diagnostic reading a couple of days ago) and calculate your salt needs with a good table. As someone stated on this forum a few days ago, it's alot easier to raise your salt level than it is to lower it (by partially draining your pool and refilling w/ fresh water). I don't use borates in my pool, but it's easy to adjust your borate level, as well as pH, TA, CH and CYA w/ other commercially available forms of these basic pool chemicals.

There are alot of critics of salt who argue that it corrodes perfectly good pool equipment. They may be right - but note that SWG's first appeared in Australia in the 1970's. If salt corrosion was truly of pandemic proportions I would think salt systems would have been driven from the market by now, instead of increasing in popularity. Note that low pH and excessive chlorine levels are very common causes of corrosion in both salt and non-salt pools.