Help With New Pool

[vojm]

Hi I recently aquired a house with a roughly 4000 gallon inground pool that has not been ran for half a year.

It has one skimmer and runs with a cartridge filter.

- I've raked up most of the debris at the bottom up (still have a 5 gallon bucket size of debris still left at the bottom)

- I've cleaned the filter

- Ran the pump for 72 hours so far

- Balanced the pH using HTH minus bringing it from 7.8 to 7.2ph

- Added 4lbs of HTH super shock throughout the course of the 72 hours.

- Added 2oz of HTH concentrated clarifier

The pool has turned from a dark muddy green to a hazy deep blue within the first 24 hours, but has not changed to a clearer color since.

My chlorine reading is still not showing anything.

Should I add more shock? Add chlorine? (Is shock the same thing as chlorine? Sorry, serious newbie here).

Any advice would be appreciated.

[PaulR]

In nearly all cases, "shock" equals "chlorine." And the chlorine is constantly being consumed, so you have to keep adding more. Especially when you're clearing up algae or other gunk, it'll get used up pretty quickly.

One thing you need is a test kit for managing your water. You have an especially small pool at 4000 gallons (don't usually see an in-ground that small!) so if things go really wrong you can often "fix" the problem by draining and refilling. Of course you'd rather not have to do that all the time (preferably not ever) so learning to manage the water will be key. If you're a cheapskate, Walmart often carries a "6-way" test kit from HTH, which covers all the bases reasonably well. If you're willing to invest more, the Taylor K-2006 (available from many sources) and the TF-100 (from tftestkits.net) are top-notch (I have the TF-100).

Here's a link to a small pool guide that you might find helpful. It's really intended for the kind you set up and take down each year, but if yours is really only 4000 gallons then a lot of it will still be relevant.

--paulr

[ny poolguy]

Hi I recently aquired a house with a roughly 4000 gallon inground pool that has not been ran for half a year.

Are you sure about 4000 gallons? Because even a 12' by 28' pool is about 12500 gallons.

[ny poolguy]

so if things go really wrong you can often "fix" the problem by draining and refilling.

If the pool has a liner I would not recommend draining and refilling it. There's a good chance you'll be buying a new liner.

If it's a gunite pool it's ok.

[vojm]

Hi I recently aquired a house with a roughly 4000 gallon inground pool that has not been ran for half a year.

Are you sure about 4000 gallons? Because even a 12' by 28' pool is about 12500 gallons.

Hmm I guess I could be wrong, it is a free form pool, so not sure how to calculate the surface area. But other than that, since I'm not getting a chlorine reading when I do the tests, should I just keep on adding more chlorine/shock?

[ny poolguy]

Yes,you will need to keep shocking until you start getting a chlorine reading,but as PaulR suggested you'll need a good test kit. Without knowing things like ppm(parts per million)of combined chlorine or stabilizer,it's like working in the dark. Your pH is a little on the low side,but ok for now. You may need to adjust your total alkalinity too.

[SteveM2690]

You have a 4000 gallon inground pool and you said ur ph is 7.2 which is great. I would check to make sure the ph is between 7.2 and 7.8 again because if your ph is off then your chlorine will never be right. Then add a bag of shock to your pool along with putting 2 tablets of chlorine in either a floating container or in your skimmer. The alkalinity you should worry about last beacuse it is a ph buffer meaning that if lets say it rains and it knocks your ph down the alkalinity will bring the ph up to normal. Once everythings balanced you will probably need to vacuum the pool, all that haze will sink to the floor. Just make sure you move slow so you dont stur it all up and make the water hazy again.

[vojm]

So I took a water sample to a pool shop and described to the guy what the pool looks like and the dimensions I got off of it. He says that it is around a 10,000 gallon pool. So big mistake on my part. Here are the results I got from the water sample:

Free Available Chlorine 0.5ppm (LOW)

Calcium Hardness 300ppm (OK)

Cyanuric Acid 20ppm (LOW)

Total Alkalinity 120ppm (OK)

pH 7.4 (OK)

Total Dissovled Solids 900 (OK)

He recommends just adding a bag of shock for the low FAC, but didn't really know what to do about the Cyanuric Acid. I've added 4 bags of shock so far before I got the sample taken in so I'm skeptical whether one more bag will really see a difference, but I bought a 1LB bag anyways and added it in.

The pool is a bluish green color and still hazy.

Is continually adding shock the only thing I can do for right now? Also the guy at the store said he was unable to test for phosphate which is what feeds the algae. Would this be a big reason my pool isn't clearing?

I appreciate everybody's input.

[PaulR]

so if things go really wrong you can often "fix" the problem by draining and refilling.

If the pool has a liner I would not recommend draining and refilling it. There's a good chance you'll be buying a new liner.

If it's a gunite pool it's ok.

True, I hadn't thought about that aspect.

--paulr

[PaulR]

He recommends just adding a bag of shock for the low FAC, but didn't really know what to do about the Cyanuric Acid. I've added 4 bags of shock so far before I got the sample taken in so I'm skeptical whether one more bag will really see a difference, but I bought a 1LB bag anyways and added it in.

The pool is a bluish green color and still hazy.

Is continually adding shock the only thing I can do for right now? Also the guy at the store said he was unable to test for phosphate which is what feeds the algae. Would this be a big reason my pool isn't clearing?

I appreciate everybody's input.

It's odd that the pool store guy didn't know what to do for low CYA... he doesn't sell it? Commonly called "stabilizer" or "conditioner."

"Shock" can be a few different things, what do the ingredients on the package say? Common types are calcium hypochlorite ("cal-hypo") and sodium dichloro-otherstuff ("dichlor"). If it's dichlor, then it will add 9ppm CYA for every 10ppm FC. Actually a convenient way to add CYA to a small pool. Mostly sold as a spa product, though.

After the CYA is where you want it, then you should stop using the dichlor... and my preference for a chlorine source in the long run is bleach (active ingredient sodium hypochlorite). Your typical Clorox is usually around 5% or 6%. Pool stores sometimes sell "liquid chlorine" which is the same stuff at 10%-12%.

The Pool Calculator is very helpful for figuring out quantities of stuff to add to keep your pool water nicely balanced and sanitary.

And go get that test kit!

--paulr

[vojm]

He recommends just adding a bag of shock for the low FAC, but didn't really know what to do about the Cyanuric Acid. I've added 4 bags of shock so far before I got the sample taken in so I'm skeptical whether one more bag will really see a difference, but I bought a 1LB bag anyways and added it in.

The pool is a bluish green color and still hazy.

Is continually adding shock the only thing I can do for right now? Also the guy at the store said he was unable to test for phosphate which is what feeds the algae. Would this be a big reason my pool isn't clearing?

I appreciate everybody's input.

It's odd that the pool store guy didn't know what to do for low CYA... he doesn't sell it? Commonly called "stabilizer" or "conditioner."

"Shock" can be a few different things, what do the ingredients on the package say? Common types are calcium hypochlorite ("cal-hypo") and sodium dichloro-otherstuff ("dichlor"). If it's dichlor, then it will add 9ppm CYA for every 10ppm FC. Actually a convenient way to add CYA to a small pool. Mostly sold as a spa product, though.

After the CYA is where you want it, then you should stop using the dichlor... and my preference for a chlorine source in the long run is bleach (active ingredient sodium hypochlorite). Your typical Clorox is usually around 5% or 6%. Pool stores sometimes sell "liquid chlorine" which is the same stuff at 10%-12%.

The Pool Calculator is very helpful for figuring out quantities of stuff to add to keep your pool water nicely balanced and sanitary.

And go get that test kit!

--paulr

Thanks a lot Paul, for the information. I've been testing with the hth test strips and waiting for the test kit to come in.

I've been using the HTH super shock which is calcium hypochlorite a bag a day (used 4 bags so far) and today bought a bag of lesliepool's power powder plus (which is also a calcium hypochlorite).

The guy that I was talking too seemed kind of young and might be under training, but he was the only one in the store.

So do you think it would be quicker to switch to a dichlorite and add the bleach like you said above or should I try the conditioner/stabilizer and then add shock?

[trader4]

What is critical here but missing, is the TOTAL CHLORINE reading. Either the pool store did not give it to you or else you didn't post it. There are two kinds of chlorines, free and combined. Free is what you want because it is active and kills bacteria. Combined chlorine is chlorine that is bound up as chloramines and isn't available as a sanitzer. Combined chlorine = total chlorine - free chlorine.

To get rid of the combined chlorine, you shock it. The amount of shock must have sufficient chlorine to equal at least 7.6 times the amount of combined chlorine. For margin, a factor of 10 times is usually used. So, if you had total chlorine of 4, free chlorine of .5, you have combined of 3.5 and would need to add chlorine equal to 35ppm. Further, that chlorine should be added all at once, as if you do it incrementally, it can actually make things worse.

With a pool that is under control, people usually just toss a given amount of shock in once a week or so which is OK because the combined chlorine is low and it's sufficient to achieve the correct ratio and eliminate the chloramines. But with an unknown pool full of gunk, you definitely want to figure out the correct amount of shock before you add any more.

[vojm]

What is critical here but missing, is the TOTAL CHLORINE reading. Either the pool store did not give it to you or else you didn't post it. There are two kinds of chlorines, free and combined. Free is what you want because it is active and kills bacteria. Combined chlorine is chlorine that is bound up as chloramines and isn't available as a sanitzer. Combined chlorine = total chlorine - free chlorine.

To get rid of the combined chlorine, you shock it. The amount of shock must have sufficient chlorine to equal at least 7.6 times the amount of combined chlorine. For margin, a factor of 10 times is usually used. So, if you had total chlorine of 4, free chlorine of .5, you have combined of 3.5 and would need to add chlorine equal to 35ppm. Further, that chlorine should be added all at once, as if you do it incrementally, it can actually make things worse.

With a pool that is under control, people usually just toss a given amount of shock in once a week or so which is OK because the combined chlorine is low and it's sufficient to achieve the correct ratio and eliminate the chloramines. But with an unknown pool full of gunk, you definitely want to figure out the correct amount of shock before you add any more.

I went back to the store with water from today and they said there was little to no chlorine. He recommended adding 5lbs of shock to put some back into the pool. Will this be the same as buying a bunch of bottle of bleach and pouring it in?

[Pathfinder]

Use the liquid chlorine over the calhypo for bringing back a lost pool, it works more effectively. You also need to be rinsing that filter out twice a day right now & it will need to be cleaned in a solution when it clears up. Im also pretty skeptical of the 900 reading for the TDS. Do you have another pool store in your area for testing?

[trader4]

What is critical here but missing, is the TOTAL CHLORINE reading. Either the pool store did not give it to you or else you didn't post it. There are two kinds of chlorines, free and combined. Free is what you want because it is active and kills bacteria. Combined chlorine is chlorine that is bound up as chloramines and isn't available as a sanitzer. Combined chlorine = total chlorine - free chlorine.

To get rid of the combined chlorine, you shock it. The amount of shock must have sufficient chlorine to equal at least 7.6 times the amount of combined chlorine. For margin, a factor of 10 times is usually used. So, if you had total chlorine of 4, free chlorine of .5, you have combined of 3.5 and would need to add chlorine equal to 35ppm. Further, that chlorine should be added all at once, as if you do it incrementally, it can actually make things worse.

With a pool that is under control, people usually just toss a given amount of shock in once a week or so which is OK because the combined chlorine is low and it's sufficient to achieve the correct ratio and eliminate the chloramines. But with an unknown pool full of gunk, you definitely want to figure out the correct amount of shock before you add any more.

I went back to the store with water from today and they said there was little to no chlorine. He recommended adding 5lbs of shock to put some back into the pool. Will this be the same as buying a bunch of bottle of bleach and pouring it in?

I suggest you stop listening to the guy in the store and get a test done at either that shop or somewhere else that gives you the TOTAL Chlorine and the FREE/Available chlorine. Take the difference between the two and that is the COMBINED chlorine. You need to add chlorine equal to a minimum of 7.6 times that value and usually to give some margin a factor of 10X is used. That is how much chlorine you need to do the shock. You're just tossing it in a little at a time, which can actually make the combined chlorine increase, instead of fixing it.

As far as chlorine to get the required PPM, yes you can do that with regular bleach, the 5 gal pails of stronger 12.5% chlorine sold at pool stores or with a number of other shock products. The chlorine content is listed on the shock and varies from product to product. The other effects on the pool, eg what it does or doesn't do to PH varies among the products as well. For your problem, I'd probably just use liquid chlorine, either bleach or the 5 gallon pail depending on cost. You are likely going to need a LOT. But first, don;'t you think you should know exactly how much you need?

I highly recommend getting a copy of The Complete Pool Manual by Dan Hardy. He goes over all of this and a lot more. Also, google on pool shocking or pool super chlorination (same thing) and chlorine lock.

[PaulR]

In a 10,000 gallon pool, 1 gallon of unscented Clorox (6% sodium hypochlorite) should add about 6ppm FC. That should give you a clue about the quantities of bleach you'd need.

Again, dichlor for a short period will help raise your CYA a bit, but for the most part you're best off with bleach; it's typically the cheapest source of chlorine around. You don't want any cal-hypo, your Calcium Hardness doesn't want to go any higher than it is.

--paulr