Salt Water System - Environmental Concerns?

[WannaBeOwner]

Hi,

I'm a definite newbie and really want to make sure we make the right decision before we hand over the $$$. We're looking for a hot tub for our cottage, so usage will be on weekends, holidays etc. Because of this, we've limited our choices to Bromine and Salt Water systems, but have heard conflicting advice.

Several dealers have said that "fill in name here" company will not warrantee their product if a salt water system is used. In addition they are telling me that these systems are raising environmental concerns and several cities are in the process of legislating limitations on dumping water etc.

We have wet-tested a beachcomber with Bromine and didn't mind it at all, no red eyes, but we did find our skin a bit itchy the day after. I'm not sure if salt water systems would feel the same, but I'd appreciate any feedback.

So, to summarize, my questions are:

Do the Spa companies still honor their warrantees if salt water systems are used?

Is there legislation coming out that may impact how the salt water system is used, water discharged etc?

Are the environmental concerns warranted?

Do other systems also leave a residue that can be itchy and is there something that we can do about it (short of an apres shower)?

Given that the tub will be at the cottage, is there anything else we should consider when trying to choose between systems?

Incidentally, we live in Ottawa, and the spa will be in the Tremblant area, so if any one has comments on service from particular dealers, I'd so appreciate hearing them. So far we've looked at Beachcomber and Arctic. We want a good 6 person spa, that will last, no bells and whistles, just something that works with little effort.

Thanks in advance!

Debbie

[ps558]

Hi,

I'm a definite newbie and really want to make sure we make the right decision before we hand over the $$$. We're looking for a hot tub for our cottage, so usage will be on weekends, holidays etc. Because of this, we've limited our choices to Bromine and Salt Water systems, but have heard conflicting advice.

Several dealers have said that "fill in name here" company will not warrantee their product if a salt water system is used. In addition they are telling me that these systems are raising environmental concerns and several cities are in the process of legislating limitations on dumping water etc.

We have wet-tested a beachcomber with Bromine and didn't mind it at all, no red eyes, but we did find our skin a bit itchy the day after. I'm not sure if salt water systems would feel the same, but I'd appreciate any feedback.

So, to summarize, my questions are:

Do the Spa companies still honor their warrantees if salt water systems are used?

Is there legislation coming out that may impact how the salt water system is used, water discharged etc?

Are the environmental concerns warranted?

Do other systems also leave a residue that can be itchy and is there something that we can do about it (short of an apres shower)?

Given that the tub will be at the cottage, is there anything else we should consider when trying to choose between systems?

Incidentally, we live in Ottawa, and the spa will be in the Tremblant area, so if any one has comments on service from particular dealers, I'd so appreciate hearing them. So far we've looked at Beachcomber and Arctic. We want a good 6 person spa, that will last, no bells and whistles, just something that works with little effort.

Thanks in advance!

Debbie

1. As of right now I no of spa manufacture saying that warranty is void is a salt system is used.

2. I have heard nothing of legislation about discharge.

3. Any properly balanced water is a pool or spa should have no effect on you your skin

4. If the spa is only being used on weekend etc look at systems that use Balboa Controls. They have a sleep mode were it will filter water and not heat until a 20 degrees temp difference. They also have a freeze protection is water gets to cold. I don't see using a system that has no modes to pick from what is the sense of heating water while no one is around even if it set to 80.

[Pathfinder]

In the GTA saltwater pool & spas must be drained into sanitary sewers. It no longer can be expelled into the ground or on the street to storm sewers. I can see other cities & provinces adopting this. The reason is there is no way to properly de-salinate the water.

[hottubdan]

In the GTA saltwater pool & spas must be drained into sanitary sewers. It no longer can be expelled into the ground or on the street to storm sewers. I can see other cities & provinces adopting this. The reason is there is no way to properly de-salinate the water.

What level of salt are they concerned with?

What about chlorine or bromine levels?

[Pathfinder]

They want the water de-chlorinated before discharge. Here's a link for anyone interested Toronto water policy

[WannaBeOwner]

In the GTA saltwater pool & spas must be drained into sanitary sewers. It no longer can be expelled into the ground or on the street to storm sewers. I can see other cities & provinces adopting this. The reason is there is no way to properly de-salinate the water.

That's what I'm worried about. Our cottage is lakeside and the city is very concerned about water quality - never mind the fact that I don't want damage the fish population. Given that Bromine sticks around longer, I'm surprised there is no limitation on that water discharge - anyone know? If Bromine won't be itchy, and isn't bad for the environment if\when we discharge, it may be the way to go.

I've also seen some UV technology but don't know if it's viable - thoughts?

[chem geek]

Unlike metal ion systems (i.e. copper/silver) that persist in the environment, chlorine and bromine are very easily eliminated by adding a reducing agent (e.g. sodium thiosulfate). Also, as you note, chlorine won't last long as it breaks down in sunlight (though with CYA in the water it takes longer) and bromine does as well though it takes longer. Since some fish are very sensitive to halogens (as low as 0.01 ppm chlorine, for example), if you discharge into a lake you would need to add a reducing agent to the discharge -- probably doing so in a waste storage area where you can test the water to make sure it is dechlorinated.

Bromine isn't going to solve the problem as it is nearly as toxic to marine life as chlorine, but it is also just as easily removed with a reducing agent.

As for salt, any chlorine (or bromine) pool is going to build up salt, but saltwater chlorine generator (SWG) pools have higher salt levels of around 3000 ppm. Salt persists, but in a larger body of water it gets diluted and it's not as harmful to aquatic life, though in larger quantities (i.e. many pools in an area around a smaller lake) it could become a problem. It's more of an issue with water districts that have requirements for discharge where they want the salt levels below some standard.

UV and ozone (and "active oxygen") systems are supplemental and do not provide any residual sanitizer in the bulk pool water. So that won't help you except in providing supplemental oxidation and killing of some pathogens that chlorine has a hard time with such as Crypto. Again, using chlorine is probably your best bet and just dechlorinate the discharge water in a holding tank/pond before releasing to a lake. Obviously check your local regs or contact your water/sewer utility first.

[txpoolguy]

Some municipalities are becoming concerned about salt getting into the natural water supply, but SWGs do not contribute any significant amount to this. If you consider the amount of salt that is used for clearing streets and walkways of snow/ice during winter weather, the 3000ppm in a salt pool/spa, is insignificant by comparison.

[chem geek]

Some municipalities are becoming concerned about salt getting into the natural water supply, but SWGs do not contribute any significant amount to this. If you consider the amount of salt that is used for clearing streets and walkways of snow/ice during winter weather, the 3000ppm in a salt pool/spa, is insignificant by comparison.

Though that is true, some communities, such as Santa Clarita Valley essentially ban saltwater pools in an attempt to reduce the amount of chloride getting into the Santa Clara River. This is an area where road salt is not used (i.e. it doesn't snow there). So it's really going to vary by area of the country. In many populated parts of Australia, for example, the salt level in the ground is already fairly high so use of saltwater pools there would obviously not be a problem. It's all a matter of one's natural environment and the degree of salt already in it and how wastewater is treated and discharged.

I should note that ANY pool using chlorine will have salt in it and non-SWG pools build up salt over time. If using chlorinating liquid or bleach, for every 10 ppm FC this results (after chlorine consumption/usage) in 17 ppm salt. So at 2 ppm FC per day over 6 months that's somewhat over 600 ppm salt. If one did a 1/3rd dilution of water each year, then this would go from 1800 ppm to 1200 ppm so would discharge (1/3)x1800 ppm = 600 ppm times the pool's water volume. With an SWG pool, this would be (1/3)x3000 ppm = 1000 ppm times the pool's water volume. If I repeat this analysis using 1 ppm FC per day instead, then the non-SWG discharge would be half or around 300 ppm times the pool's water volume. So it really depends on the daily chlorine consumption/usage rate and also on the type of chlorine that is used (though using Cal-Hypo would build up CH and using Trichlor or Dichlor would build up CYA so require even more extensive dilution).