Spa Controller Compuetr Interface

[Yadkin]

OK I searched all over the internet this morning and couldn't find anyone who has done this. I can't imagine being the first bloke to think of this so I'd rather not reinvent the wheel.

I've got a Hot Springs/ Tiger River spa with a 2001 IQ 2020 control panel. It has several places where pins are exposed; my guess is for attachment to their remote control and for diagnostics.

The spa is located at my mountain cabin and I'm there most weekends during the winter. Electricity and fuel costs being what they are, I've gone to great lengths to be able to turn down the house temperature and turn off the domestic hot water when I'm gone, and turn everything back up/ on before I get there so the house isn't freezing when I arrive. I even turn the water main off in case something screws up big time and a pipe freezes.

I'm no computer genius but I figured out how to do this using X10 controllers and their telephone interface. This stuff is all 1980's technology and pretty cheap, around $200 for my set-up, including a second thermostat, a sprinkler valve and the various control boxes. It's pretty neat because I can turn things on-off using my cell phone.

However it's not completely dependable and doesn't provide me any feedback so this last summer my son built a computer to stay up there and monitor things. This was relatively more expensive, plus I now pay for broad band internet at $45/ month. We use Home Domination software and can log on remotely and see what the the computer is doing, see the status of temperature sensors and if the X10 boxes are on or off.

Back to the main point I'm looking for a way to connect to the IQ 2020 board and read the temperature status on the computer, and turn the water temperature up or down.

As an alternate I suppose I could put a second heater in the spa set to a lower temperature, and turn the main heater off using an X10 interface, but there should be a simpler way.

Any gurus here?

[Yadkin]

Oh that's nice I misspelled "computer".

[zroger73]

If this is even technically possible, you would need access to the communications protocol used by the IQ2020. Obviously, some type of communication bus exists in this system for interface to the remote control, lighting, etc. An alternative to reverse-engineering the IQ2020 would be to replace the entire control system with a PLC (programmable logic controller) - not an inexpensive options, but the possibilities are endless.

[Yadkin]

Since I'm not a computer programmer I have no interest in reverse engineering the thing. I find it hard to believe that they would name this thing IQ2020, and after naming the last version IQ2000 obviously expecting the design to last 20 years, without putting in computer interface capabilities.

An other option is set the temperature to 80 degrees manually when leaving, then before arrival use an X10 device to turn power off at the spa, then turn it back on after a few minutes. That will reset the spa board to its default temperature of 102. The problem with this scenario is that we have frequent power outages, probably one every two weeks on average, and that would reset the spa to 102 for who knows how long.

[zroger73]

99.999% of spa users have absolutely no need for a computer interface to their spas and wouldn't now what to do with it even if they had it. On the other hand, 99.999% of all electronic devices from thermostats to flat panel televisions to car engines to burglar alarms have connections to communicate with the outside world. However, these connections are almost always for factory testing and diagnostic purposes and are generally read-only. To access or communicate with the device - in this case the IQ2020 controller - you would need to know the specifications for the communications protocol and physical layer (what language it speaks and how it speaks it). You would need to know what you can ask it and what it can tell you or can be commanded to do. You may even need propriety software. None of this is going to be handed out by the manufacturer since they don't want you interfacing a Nintendo Wii to a body of heated water with hundreds of volts and dozens of amps running about. Too much liability.

I write software and assemble the appropriate assortment of hardware used for industrial heating and automation applications. With a thick enough wallet, I can build you a control system with multiple touch screen interfaces that can be accessed from anywhere in the world via an Internet connection that can not only control temperature, but also take readings from the water and automatically dispense exactly the right amount of chemicals for a completely maintenance-free spa. But, that's overkill and I don't have that much time or money.

[Yadkin]

The IQ2020 has an optional remote control that operates via radio signals. I would assume that requires a corresponding receiver that plugs into the board, and therefore those pins include input and output. How would one go about getting a pin out diagram for this board?

[zroger73]

I'll be ya that's proprietary information that Watkins won't be willing to share. Also, I guarantee that it won't be a pinout where individual pins correspond to specific functions such as temp, jets, lights, etc. Instead, it will be serial signal of 1s and 0s exchanged between the IQ2020 and the remote transceiver. I hate to sound discouraging, but there would be a lot of work to this - if it's even possible.

[hottubdan]

I am sure the technology exists. Do you have a dealer to talk to? Have you call Hot Spring Technical support of Customer Service?

why don't you simply turn the thermostat down to 80?

[Yadkin]

I'll be ya that's proprietary information that Watkins won't be willing to share. Also, I guarantee that it won't be a pinout where individual pins correspond to specific functions such as temp, jets, lights, etc. Instead, it will be serial signal of 1s and 0s exchanged between the IQ2020 and the remote transceiver. I hate to sound discouraging, but there would be a lot of work to this - if it's even possible.

Yeah you're probably right. I'll probably have to do this the old-fashioned way with a second thermostat and switch the line voltage leads with a relay.

[Yadkin]

I am sure the technology exists. Do you have a dealer to talk to? Have you call Hot Spring Technical support of Customer Service?

why don't you simply turn the thermostat down to 80?

It's not a catalog item so my dealer will have a blank stare, a confused expression, or look at me like a second head grew out of my shoulder. Ditto with Hot Springs or any manufacturer.

I do turn the thermostat down manually. My goal is to turn it back up before I get to the house so it will be hot when I get there. I also have frequent power outages which will reset the spa back up to 102F even though I may not be there for two or three weeks. Mountain Electric is $0.14 per kwh and I'm a cheapo.

[zroger73]

I am sure the technology exists. Do you have a dealer to talk to? Have you call Hot Spring Technical support of Customer Service?

why don't you simply turn the thermostat down to 80?

It's not a catalog item so my dealer will have a blank stare, a confused expression, or look at me like a second head grew out of my shoulder. Ditto with Hot Springs or any manufacturer.

I do turn the thermostat down manually. My goal is to turn it back up before I get to the house so it will be hot when I get there. I also have frequent power outages which will reset the spa back up to 102F even though I may not be there for two or three weeks. Mountain Electric is $0.14 per kwh and I'm a cheapo.

I just now caught the part about yours resetting to 102 after a power outage. The IQ2020 in my '08 Sovereign stays on whatever the last setpoint was. It does not default to any particular temperature after a power failure. Maybe a revision in the controls between '01 and '08?

[Yadkin]

I just now caught the part about yours resetting to 102 after a power outage. The IQ2020 in my '08 Sovereign stays on whatever the last setpoint was. It does not default to any particular temperature after a power failure. Maybe a revision in the controls between '01 and '08?

Probably. The Hot Springs website has pdf manuals for each year of manufacture, down to 1999. Mine's a 2001. I haven't bothered to test it to see if it functions this way.

[RyanF]

Here's what I've been able to dig up so far on the internet.

I think the motherboard communicates with the accessories via the I2C protocol.

I'm basing this on the fact that the instructions for the Luminescence multi-color light reference the I2C Communications port.

Wiki has some links to I2C interface adapters:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I%C2%B2C

At one time I found some PDF pages from the Hot Springs internal technical manual on the internet. I saved them on my hard drive but can't find them again on the internet now. I don't see where I can attach PDFs on this forum. If you give me your email or an ftp site I can send you what I have. Though I don't think you will find much useful information in the files. The diagrams are more of a part number level and not so much schematics.

If you make any headway on this, maybe you could help me out with my dilemma. I have a 2001 Sovereign with the IQ2020 controller. I purchased the $200 Luminescence light assuming it would work, but it hasn't. I don't think they will take it back. If you figure out the Communications Port pinout, or how to do basic communications with the controller I think that would push me in the right direction.

[zroger73]

http://www.backyardplus.com/proddetail.php?prod=72742

Further evidence the communications protocol is I2C.

[pickngrin]

It's not a catalog item so my dealer will have a blank stare, a confused expression, or look at me like a second head grew out of my shoulder. Ditto with Hot Springs or any manufacturer.

Been there! This stuff isnt rocket science, but some of those guys want us to believe it is. I'm still trying to get air introduced into the jets on one side of my Sundance......My local dealer told me it has a bad air pump......guess what, the tub never had an air pump.

Its a Sundance, not an oddball tub and I doubt its a rare problem. If the pros cant fix it you just have to figure it out on your own.

I think you have a neat plan but may have to select another way to skin the cat. maybe set the whole tub up on a timer that with a remote over ride circuit that bypasses the timer (always on when activated). Set the timer for the tub to run and hour or so a day (it will come on at default 102....but never reach that temp) then call in and activate the remote overide which is bypasses the timer and lets the tub go to 102.

.014 KWH is expensive!

[bill0021]

It's not a catalog item so my dealer will have a blank stare, a confused expression, or look at me like a second head grew out of my shoulder. Ditto with Hot Springs or any manufacturer.

I think you have a neat plan but may have to select another way to skin the cat. maybe set the whole tub up on a timer that with a remote over ride circuit that bypasses the timer (always on when activated). Set the timer for the tub to run and hour or so a day (it will come on at default 102....but never reach that temp) then call in and activate the remote overide which is bypasses the timer and lets the tub go to 102.

.014 KWH is expensive!

Hmm that sounds like an idea, if the spa is not in an extremely cold location in the winter were it could be dangerous if it does not run more then once a day.

I have been looking for the same solution for our cottage. Not only does it cost to run but just the thought of using all that power when it does not get touched for what could sometimes be weeks irks me so we turn it down. Then you have the problem of how long it takes to get back to temp. If we only go up for a night then it is almost not even worth it to bring it back to temp.

So it is feasible to say that if the spa can be defaulted to 102 when the power is tripped this could work. I am thinking of wiring in a 240V Insteon (like X10) relay between the house breaker and the spa on the main power line.

My question would be, would tripping the main everyday be too hard on the control pack? It would also mean the water heater and water pump would shut at the same time. Presently on my spa the pump shuts off 1 or 2 minutes after the heater turns off to cool it down. Would this be a problem in the making?

[Soaker44]

I have a solution for you : Basically, connect a 10K-Ohm resistor, thru the terminals of a relay, across the two wires of the existing spa water temperature sensor thermistor. This will make the spa controller think the water is hotter than it really is, the 10KOhm value would give you an actual water temperature of 80F (the spa temp display will show 102F). The resistor is switched by the output of a X10 "Universal" relay output module. When the relay is energized, the spa temperature will be 80F if the spa controller temperature set-point is 102F. If the relay is de-energized ( thru an X10 remote signal), the spa controller will work "normal" (actual water temp = 102F when the spa controller is set to 102F). So, when you are away, the water temp will be 80F, and even if the power fails and returns, the spa temp will be controlled to 80F (because of the X10 module relay stays in whatever was its last state). This is how the 102F default temp setpoint of the controller is overidden when the power is restored. When you want to visit, send the X10 command via phone (or internet), which turns OFF the relay, causing the spa to heat to the normal 102F.

Sometimes complex "digital" problems have simple "analog" solutions!!

I can send you a PDF schematic of this if you send me your email

You could use a potentiometer in place of the fixed 10K resistor, then you have a setable "away" temperature. My choice of the resistor value is based on the info I found about the temp sensor used in the IQ2020 spa-pack. There are two temp sensor thermistors, you want to conect to the temp regulation one, at the INLET of the heater, versus the OverTemp Protect thermistor which is probably located at the OUTLET end of the heater tube.

X10-UM506 Universal Module $15 from thehomeautomationstore.com

Resistor, 10K Ohm, 5-pack, Radio Shack 271-006 $0.99

[Powderhound]

I'm trying to do the same thing with a HotSprings Vista. It also has the IQ 2020 control panel, which supports the optional RF remote (which I do not have).

Could you please give an update? Were you successful and what method did you use?

The resistor method sounds the most simple, but it would be really interesting to use the RF protocol or talk to the bus. This could probably be achieved with an Arduino module.

[Powderhound]

I'm trying to do the same thing with a HotSprings Vista. It also has the IQ 2020 control panel, which supports the optional RF remote (which I do not have).

Could you please give an update? Were you successful and what method did you use?

The resistor method sounds the most simple, but it would be really interesting to use the RF protocol or talk to the bus.

A quick bit of research today has discovered the Telos Connii MM 2.0 and software bundle which could (possibly) be used to interface with the I2C bus and discover the control/data signals. At 200 Euros ($273) it is a bit expensive... However, the remote from Hot Spring is $400, so maybe not too expensive in that context.

A less expensive, but arguably more fiddly way would be to use a logic analyzer such as the Saleae Logic. It is only $149 and has the advantage that you'd be left with a logic analyzer that can do more than analyze I2C. This has been successfully used to analyze I2C (check out this article).

Once the control addresses and instructions are known, it should be pretty easy to build an Arduino controller to communicate with the IQ 2020. There's plenty of examples of using Arduino to communicate with I2C (eg. this tutorial).

There are a number of advantages of this approach. Using the full control protocol, all of the spa's electronic functions could be used:

• It would be possible to integrate the lights into a home automation system. At the touch of a button one could set the spa lights to a pre-set combination of colors and turn on lighting and music around the spa.
  
• A specific temperature could be set remotely. This is better than switching the heater off, especially in a cold environment to prevent freezing.
  
• People with young kids would also find that setting the spa temperature remotely in advance is useful. Young kids have to have the temperature lower than adults.
  

I am tempted to have a go at this, but time may be an issue. If I do, I will post back my progress.

Please post if you have attempted anything similar!

[RyanF]

I haven't given up yet on simulating the I2C communications to get my luminescence light working with the 1st gen IQ2020.

You can find the watkins service manuals including electrical schematics here. Don't waste your time downloading the Detechtive software, it's just a bloated, web-based diagnostics for dummies manual. Another interesting file from the ftp site is the component description exe/zip/pdf. It describes the function of all the parts including some useful control panel button combinations.

I'll keep posting as I learn more about how the I2C communications work.

[RyanF]

I found this freeware program that communicates I2C via a computer's parallel port.

http://www.boerde.de/~matthias/delphi/

What addresses the controller uses and what to communicate is another story.

[DavidDSP]

Hi,

I just bought a Hotspring soevereign.

Sorry, i don't speak English perfect, as I normally speaks dutch, sorry for this.

I would like to controle it 1900 Km away from home.

Did someone do this already before?

Kind regards, and thanks in advance,

David

david@ds.be

[DavidDSP]

Hello,

I just bought an Hotspring souvereign with the Q2020.

How far are you with your project to analyse the communication.

Please please let me know it.

Kind regards,

David De Spiegeleire

david@ds.be

+32478306001

[RyanS107]

I am looking for something exactly what you guys are explaining. I want to be able to monitor, or at least be alerted if my Hot Spring's temperature ever drops below a certain temp. If the power ever trips, I would hate it if my spa ever got too cold and froze, destroying the whole thing. Ideally, I would love for some type of interface (Ardunio or other) to be able to text or email me if this happened. Reading directly into the board would be great.

[Bob Sanders]

I am looking for something exactly what you guys are explaining. I want to be able to monitor, or at least be alerted if my Hot Spring's temperature ever drops below a certain temp.

I have mine hooked into the house alarm.

I have a second thermostat (a Honeywell remote bulb type) monitoring the temp. If it drops below the set temperature it triggers a relay which in turn sets off a trouble zone on my house alarm. The alarm has a built in phone dialer which is set to call me on my cell phone.