Genesis Vs. Onzen

[aidensmom02]

We have an Arctic Summit tub that we've been running for nearly two years now (july will be two years). It has a Genesis Salt water system in it. A few months ago I went out to the tub to discover an error code and grey/black water. I called the dealer and they came out and replaced my pump. He also mentioned that I needed a new salt cell, but that would require draining the tub and it was a very cold day. He told me that it didn't need to be replaced that day and that I could wait until it was warmer out... which we chose to do. He also said that there was a new Onzen system out that was superior to the Genesis and that I may want to upgrade to the Onzen system instead of replacing the salt cell for the Genesis.

With our Genesis, I rarely have to do anything to the tub. Literally, we are in there every day during the summer'ish months (May - October) and then rarely use it in the winter'ish months (maybe twice a month). I shock once a week in the summer months and otherwise ignore the tub, my water stays balanced and crystal clear.

With the Onzen, I'm told I'll need to add Best Defense/Prevent II once a week and that I'll need to constantly be checking the ph balance and adding ph down to keep levels balanced.

I really like the maintenance free lifestyle the Genesis has provided, but I'm worried that the salt cell will continue to break... I'm still confused on exactly what caused the initial issue. Now I'm told that my 10 year warranty does not include the salt cell and that if it breaks again I will be paying a $60 call out fee PLUS another $40 for a new salt cell. I'm also told that the salt cells have been breaking and needing replacement as little as every 6 months from other customers. I don't understand why I paid $18000 for a tub with a 10 year warranty and I'm only two years in and paying for repairs that should be covered under warranty, but that's another issue entirely.

I've been searching and am not really coming up with anything. Can someone (in layman's terms please that does not direct me to yet another website to confuse me more) explain the difference between these two systems and tell me if it's really necessary to upgrade to the Onzen when I have the Genesis. Can you also tell me what causes the salt cell to break and why it would need to keep being replaced?

Signed,

totally confused

[canucktech]

We have an Arctic Summit tub that we've been running for nearly two years now (july will be two years). It has a Genesis Salt water system in it. A few months ago I went out to the tub to discover an error code and grey/black water. I called the dealer and they came out and replaced my pump. He also mentioned that I needed a new salt cell, but that would require draining the tub and it was a very cold day. He told me that it didn't need to be replaced that day and that I could wait until it was warmer out... which we chose to do. He also said that there was a new Onzen system out that was superior to the Genesis and that I may want to upgrade to the Onzen system instead of replacing the salt cell for the Genesis.

With our Genesis, I rarely have to do anything to the tub. Literally, we are in there every day during the summer'ish months (May - October) and then rarely use it in the winter'ish months (maybe twice a month). I shock once a week in the summer months and otherwise ignore the tub, my water stays balanced and crystal clear.

With the Onzen, I'm told I'll need to add Best Defense/Prevent II once a week and that I'll need to constantly be checking the ph balance and adding ph down to keep levels balanced.

I really like the maintenance free lifestyle the Genesis has provided, but I'm worried that the salt cell will continue to break... I'm still confused on exactly what caused the initial issue. Now I'm told that my 10 year warranty does not include the salt cell and that if it breaks again I will be paying a $60 call out fee PLUS another $40 for a new salt cell. I'm also told that the salt cells have been breaking and needing replacement as little as every 6 months from other customers. I don't understand why I paid $18000 for a tub with a 10 year warranty and I'm only two years in and paying for repairs that should be covered under warranty, but that's another issue entirely.

I've been searching and am not really coming up with anything. Can someone (in layman's terms please that does not direct me to yet another website to confuse me more) explain the difference between these two systems and tell me if it's really necessary to upgrade to the Onzen when I have the Genesis. Can you also tell me what causes the salt cell to break and why it would need to keep being replaced?

Signed,

totally confused

Hi there,

The Genesis sytem comes with a 5 year manufacturer warranty. Always the issue with the warranty for your salt cell will be water chemistry issue, was your ph levels fine and phosphate levels good as well.

This is just ways for them to try and not get it covered under warranty. With the salt cell on your genesis system, you would want to take a look at the cell for yourself. It should be installed with a clear piece of pvc so you can do a visual inspection on it. If you see a serious amount of calicum build up on the one side of the salt cell, this would be an indication that the controller box is not changing polarity and which would cause the salt cell to go. If this is the case you would need to replace your controller box as well your salt cell. Their should be a + or a - in front of the number on the controller. It will change from + to - every 5-10mins to prevent any build on one of the cell, as the calcium would build up on the electrode that is always positive charge. Alot times the issues with the salt cell could also be with the installation. The salt cell should be horizantal with the floor or at an angle were the salt cell should be angled a little bit down. The discover now with the genesis system is that the air bubbles that were getting trapped in the salt cell would be corrsive to the electrode and casue it to fail and give you a black ring along the inside of your tub and turn your filter black. (it is normal for your filter to turn slightly grey and this is called dusting form the salt cell).

The onzen system just came out to Arctic spas appx. within 2 years now or so. The feedback from that has been good to none. Just because it's kinda of new we don't know what's some common issues are for it, like your genesis system.

Bottom line is you shouldn't be paying for the salt cell as it should be under warranty unless they try to blame you for the improper water chemistry and the call out charge is normal as the manufacturer will give the dealer a hourly wage for the repair and replace the part but the manufacturer will not pay for the drive time. If the genesis system is working for you, then I would stick with it .

[aidensmom02]

We have an Arctic Summit tub that we've been running for nearly two years now (july will be two years). It has a Genesis Salt water system in it. A few months ago I went out to the tub to discover an error code and grey/black water. I called the dealer and they came out and replaced my pump. He also mentioned that I needed a new salt cell, but that would require draining the tub and it was a very cold day. He told me that it didn't need to be replaced that day and that I could wait until it was warmer out... which we chose to do. He also said that there was a new Onzen system out that was superior to the Genesis and that I may want to upgrade to the Onzen system instead of replacing the salt cell for the Genesis.

With our Genesis, I rarely have to do anything to the tub. Literally, we are in there every day during the summer'ish months (May - October) and then rarely use it in the winter'ish months (maybe twice a month). I shock once a week in the summer months and otherwise ignore the tub, my water stays balanced and crystal clear.

With the Onzen, I'm told I'll need to add Best Defense/Prevent II once a week and that I'll need to constantly be checking the ph balance and adding ph down to keep levels balanced.

I really like the maintenance free lifestyle the Genesis has provided, but I'm worried that the salt cell will continue to break... I'm still confused on exactly what caused the initial issue. Now I'm told that my 10 year warranty does not include the salt cell and that if it breaks again I will be paying a $60 call out fee PLUS another $40 for a new salt cell. I'm also told that the salt cells have been breaking and needing replacement as little as every 6 months from other customers. I don't understand why I paid $18000 for a tub with a 10 year warranty and I'm only two years in and paying for repairs that should be covered under warranty, but that's another issue entirely.

I've been searching and am not really coming up with anything. Can someone (in layman's terms please that does not direct me to yet another website to confuse me more) explain the difference between these two systems and tell me if it's really necessary to upgrade to the Onzen when I have the Genesis. Can you also tell me what causes the salt cell to break and why it would need to keep being replaced?

Signed,

totally confused

Hi there,

The Genesis sytem comes with a 5 year manufacturer warranty. Always the issue with the warranty for your salt cell will be water chemistry issue, was your ph levels fine and phosphate levels good as well.

This is just ways for them to try and not get it covered under warranty. With the salt cell on your genesis system, you would want to take a look at the cell for yourself. It should be installed with a clear piece of pvc so you can do a visual inspection on it. If you see a serious amount of calicum build up on the one side of the salt cell, this would be an indication that the controller box is not changing polarity and which would cause the salt cell to go. If this is the case you would need to replace your controller box as well your salt cell. Their should be a + or a - in front of the number on the controller. It will change from + to - every 5-10mins to prevent any build on one of the cell, as the calcium would build up on the electrode that is always positive charge. Alot times the issues with the salt cell could also be with the installation. The salt cell should be horizantal with the floor or at an angle were the salt cell should be angled a little bit down. The discover now with the genesis system is that the air bubbles that were getting trapped in the salt cell would be corrsive to the electrode and casue it to fail and give you a black ring along the inside of your tub and turn your filter black. (it is normal for your filter to turn slightly grey and this is called dusting form the salt cell).

The onzen system just came out to Arctic spas appx. within 2 years now or so. The feedback from that has been good to none. Just because it's kinda of new we don't know what's some common issues are for it, like your genesis system.

Bottom line is you shouldn't be paying for the salt cell as it should be under warranty unless they try to blame you for the improper water chemistry and the call out charge is normal as the manufacturer will give the dealer a hourly wage for the repair and replace the part but the manufacturer will not pay for the drive time. If the genesis system is working for you, then I would stick with it .

Thank you for your reply... great information in there for me.

ph levels have been perfect... forgive me, but how do I check for phosphate levels? I was only told to use the test kit to check ph and bromine levels and they are always kept in perfect range. The only other thing I test is TDS for water changes.

We're draining the tub in the next few weeks (as soon as this cold spell leaves us) and flipping it 180 degrees. Right now we have deck on two sides of the tub and if I'm understanding correctly the salt cell location is under the tub's filter, which is under the deck. It's still accessible, but it will be easier to see if it's not under the deck... and we think we'll like the location of the seating better by rotating it, so I'll look for those issues as soon as we can get out there and flip it... it's supposed to be 21C on Saturday, so I'm hoping to get it done this weekend.

I'm not even positive that it was the salt cell that failed in the beginning because the black/grey water filtered out on it's own once the pump was replaced. The pump was not running for approximately two days... once the pump was replaced and the filter cleaned, the water is back to crystal clear again. So if the salt cell was broken/wrecked... why did the black/grey water disappear and where did it come from to begin with?

The tech that came out said my salt cell would need to be replaced because it would have been partially destroyed by not having the pump running for those few days. I thought with the Genesis system that the salt cell would only produce if the pump was running, so I'm confused how the pump not running could wreck the salt cell. The tech did seem to be extremely knowledgeable, so I'm not saying he didn't know what he was talking about, just that I'm confused on why the salt cell would need to be replaced.

[aidensmom02]

I've done some more reading and it doesn't appear that our salt cell/electrode failed.

The pump broke and was not operational for two days... during that time the bromine (?) would have built up in the salt cell/electrode which caused black/grey soot in the water (no black ring). When the pump was replaced and working again, the soot filtered out and everything went back to normal. This is why the tech told me that the pump not running probably caused my salt cell/electrode some damage, but that it didn't need to be replaced immediately. This is all theory right now until we can get the tub drained, moved over and access the panel that the salt cell/electrode is behind... then we can see what it looks like.

From all the extra reading I've done, it appears that a number of people have issues with trying to maintain their bromine levels when using the Onzen system. For now we are choosing to stay with the Genesis system (at least until Onzen can work out the kinks with the bromine... we won't switch to chlorine for allergy reasons). The Genesis is basically maintenance free for us and I don't have any issues keeping perfect levels while literally doing next to nothing.

We'll get the tub drained as soon as the rain threat goes away and check the salt cell and then go from there. I checked my levels yesterday and my ph is 7.6, Br 2.0 - 3.0, TDS 2117... and this tub hasn't had new water since the beginning of last August. A little sad I need to drain it to check the salt cell, otherwise I would not have bothered with a water change until early fall.

[canucktech]

I've done some more reading and it doesn't appear that our salt cell/electrode failed.

The pump broke and was not operational for two days... during that time the bromine (?) would have built up in the salt cell/electrode which caused black/grey soot in the water (no black ring). When the pump was replaced and working again, the soot filtered out and everything went back to normal. This is why the tech told me that the pump not running probably caused my salt cell/electrode some damage, but that it didn't need to be replaced immediately. This is all theory right now until we can get the tub drained, moved over and access the panel that the salt cell/electrode is behind... then we can see what it looks like.

From all the extra reading I've done, it appears that a number of people have issues with trying to maintain their bromine levels when using the Onzen system. For now we are choosing to stay with the Genesis system (at least until Onzen can work out the kinks with the bromine... we won't switch to chlorine for allergy reasons). The Genesis is basically maintenance free for us and I don't have any issues keeping perfect levels while literally doing next to nothing.

We'll get the tub drained as soon as the rain threat goes away and check the salt cell and then go from there. I checked my levels yesterday and my ph is 7.6, Br 2.0 - 3.0, TDS 2117... and this tub hasn't had new water since the beginning of last August. A little sad I need to drain it to check the salt cell, otherwise I would not have bothered with a water change until early fall.

Even with the pump not working the genesis system still comes on, because it doesn't know that the pump isn't pushing water. I can't really see that the elctrode would be damaged from this, because it's still changing polarity and not letting the build up happen. Unless the stagnet water inside the electrode tubing becomes so concentrated with bromine, that it could start to eat away at the electrode. Kinda of a theory. Also another thing to check is to make sure that the controller box is illuminated when the pump is on low. The genesis system should come on everytime that pump #1 comes on for either heating or filtration. With the Arctic I believe they have the plug and play style controller box, were you plug the pump into the controller box and plug the controller box into the slot where the pump would plug into the Spa pak. This is the reason why the controller box would still be giving power to the electrode, due to the Spa pak still sending power for the pump, even though the pump was dead. Hopefully this makes sense.

To test your phosphate levels, their is a tester you can buy at most hot tub dealers. The phosphate are damaging to the metal items in the plumbing line, i.e your heater, your heater tube, the seals on your pumps and of course your electrodes for your salt cell. So keep these in par for better life span of your equipment and salt system.