Is Forever Floor Good Enough?

[jennaemac]

As we have begun prepping our yard for delivery of our new Arctic Tub, I'm starting to wonder about this forever floor. Does anyone have any experience with just how "forever" it is. We have a level space but it's just dirt that may or may not be very compacted. What about settling? Has anyone just put a slab down or pavers anyway just to be safe and is it really necessary? What about peastone or something like that? How can I be sure that when that tub is set down and is level that it will stay that way indefinitely? Any advice would be appreciated. Jenna

[wesj53]

Just 2 hours ago Jenna my Tundra was delivered. One of the reasons I purchased an Arctic was due to the fact you don't have to pour concrete or install pavers in your back yard. You can lay the unit down on bare ground but my dealer recommended 2" of #9 stone which will help with drainage under the spa. But even that is not required since the floor is made of fiberglass similar to that on boats. It costs me $30 for the stone and I spent one Sunday afternoon leveling and compacting. When the guys came out, they said that they had never seen a site prepared so well. Once the tub was placed down, we ran a level in every direction and the tub is PERFECTLY level. Now my ground below has never been disturbed so I don't anticipate any movement. However, if there is for mine or yours, the weight of a full tub is evenly distributed so any settling should be uniform. Just make sure you are level at the time of installation. Good luck and don't waste the money on concrete. Also, I asked for the installers to note on my delivery papers that the site was inspected and was level per Arctic standards. They had no problem doing that and I also protect myself in case the floor does EVER crack (which I doubt since the base is a beast).

[spatech (the unreal one)]

When the guys came out, they said that they had never seen a site prepared so well. Once the tub was placed down, we ran a level in every direction and the tub is PERFECTLY level.

Good job.

[paintnsunni]

Just 2 hours ago Jenna my Tundra was delivered. One of the reasons I purchased an Arctic was due to the fact you don't have to pour concrete or install pavers in your back yard. You can lay the unit down on bare ground but my dealer recommended 2" of #9 stone which will help with drainage under the spa. But even that is not required since the floor is made of fiberglass similar to that on boats. It costs me $30 for the stone and I spent one Sunday afternoon leveling and compacting. When the guys came out, they said that they had never seen a site prepared so well. Once the tub was placed down, we ran a level in every direction and the tub is PERFECTLY level. Now my ground below has never been disturbed so I don't anticipate any movement. However, if there is for mine or yours, the weight of a full tub is evenly distributed so any settling should be uniform. Just make sure you are level at the time of installation. Good luck and don't waste the money on concrete. Also, I asked for the installers to note on my delivery papers that the site was inspected and was level per Arctic standards. They had no problem doing that and I also protect myself in case the floor does EVER crack (which I doubt since the base is a beast).

Why wouldn't you prepare a pad being the is a lot of money to invest and not "do it right" I made a 8x8 pad out of 5/8 minus with fines, compacted it well the put stone pavers over it. Cost was abot 400 dollars total and two days work but I feel better knowing the site is good and solid.

[Roger]

As we have begun prepping our yard for delivery of our new Arctic Tub, I'm starting to wonder about this forever floor. Does anyone have any experience with just how "forever" it is. We have a level space but it's just dirt that may or may not be very compacted. What about settling? Has anyone just put a slab down or pavers anyway just to be safe and is it really necessary? What about peastone or something like that? How can I be sure that when that tub is set down and is level that it will stay that way indefinitely? Any advice would be appreciated. Jenna

No one likes walking in bare feet in dirt or stone especialy when it's wet around a hot tub. I personaly would pour or make a smooth cement type surface of some sort. You will be much happier in the end. This will keep debris out of your tub (kids?) and make it more resort like, which is the goal. Wood works but needs to be thought about. Say treated 4x4's on 12" centers with a 3/4 treated plywood on top. Make a box and lay the plywood on top. Put some pavers under the 4 corners and spread out inbetween. Theres several ways to make a smooth surface to walk on and enter your tub. Wood won't last forever but may make the life of the tub depending on drainage.

[Spa User Guy]

As we have begun prepping our yard for delivery of our new Arctic Tub, I'm starting to wonder about this forever floor. Does anyone have any experience with just how "forever" it is. We have a level space but it's just dirt that may or may not be very compacted. What about settling? Has anyone just put a slab down or pavers anyway just to be safe and is it really necessary? What about peastone or something like that? How can I be sure that when that tub is set down and is level that it will stay that way indefinitely? Any advice would be appreciated. Jenna

Personally I can't imagine spending that kind of money on a spa and having it placed on dirt or even prepared gravel. If it were me I would bite the bullet, chisel open my wallet and do it right from the start. Have a nice level pad poured for your spa. A nice concrete pad will provide a troublefree, secure foundation for the life of the spa. You spend a few thousand dollars on a nice spa, spend another $500.00 on a decent foundation for your purchase. You will be much happier and stress free in the end. I have seen the forever floor and it isn't meant to compensate for any ground settling at all. It however would be a floor to last forever (or the life of the spa) if properly placed on a level concrete pad.

[paintnsunni]

well said

[Glenn]

well said

What will a concrete pad do for you compared to a solid fiberglass bottom? I would say you would have to be more fussy about the ground under concrete so it doesnt crack, for me, my Tundra is on the same gravel bed as the pavers around my pool area, which when i placed the pavers up to the tub it looks like it was made for it!, if the ground is good for the concrete its good for the forever floor save your $500.00 for the around the tub area, steps, walkway whatever....

[Canadian Kahuna]

I too own an Arctic spa with the forever floor. At first i was just going to prepare the site with some gravel. I decided to spend a few hundred dollars and put in a nice 12x10 deck for it instead. It's made from treated 2x6's with 12" centers. The wood deck may be a little more work for maintenance, but really finishes things off and gives it that "resort look" i think Roger mentioned. It's also a lot easier to keep debris like grass and dirt from entering the tub. Grass clippings, dirt, etc will stick to the bottom of your feet. I just wear my sandals over to my deck, and take them off. I have a little extra room now to move around my tub without getting my feet dirty. It's also great in the winter, being above the frozen ground (it's still not warm, but a clean shoveled deck makes a difference to step on). I have no doubt about the forever floor as i was going to just place the tub on gravel at first, but decking or a pad really makes a difference in presentation. If you plan on staying in your house for some time, and are sure about the placement of the tub, spend a few extra bucks. The good thing is, you can always add a deck later though.

[wesj53]

I find some posts really ridiculous. Who says anyone is walking on stone? People ... the stone is UNDER the unit which NO ONE will ever see again until the spa is gone so why pay $$ for a fancy underlayment?! This is not rocket science! The other reason I didn't pour a concrete pad is that it would be out of place in that portion of my back yard. Obviously, I am going to finish off the installation by landscaping the site with paver bricks or flagstone around the perimeter of the unit so that no stone will be seen. I am also going to use the same brick for a path leading from my patio to the unit. (I will post pics once all work is done.)

In answer to spauserguy, the Forever Floor is warranteed against cracking for 5 years (10 for the Legend SE series) so I don't know where you're getting your info.

[Spa User Guy]

I find some posts really ridiculous. Who says anyone is walking on stone? People ... the stone is UNDER the unit which NO ONE will ever see again until the spa is gone so why pay $$ for a fancy underlayment?! This is not rocket science! The other reason I didn't pour a concrete pad is that it would be out of place in that portion of my back yard. Obviously, I am going to finish off the installation by landscaping the site with paver bricks or flagstone around the perimeter of the unit so that no stone will be seen. I am also going to use the same brick for a path leading from my patio to the unit. (I will post pics once all work is done.)

In answer to spauserguy, the Forever Floor is warranteed against cracking for 5 years (10 for the Legend SE series) so I don't know where you're getting your info.

The forever floor is guaranteed for five years, thats great however is it guaranteed if the ground underneath settles and puts excess strain on the spa. I seriously doubt it. Better check the fine print on that warranty. Besides that why take a chance when for so little money you could have a decent pad poured. Wes, I am just saying if I spent as much as you did for a spa (and I did) I would put it on a more permanent foundation i.e (concrete pad, treated wood deck etc.) This type of foundation has a much less probability of settling under weight and thats not rocket science. Obviously you are happy with placing your spa on the dirt, but personally I couldn't recommend that to anyone myself.

[paintnsunni]

The forever floor is guaranteed for five years, thats great however is it guaranteed if the ground underneath settles and puts excess strain on the spa. I seriously doubt it. Better check the fine print on that warranty. Besides that why take a chance when for so little money you could have a decent pad poured. Wes, I am just saying if I spent as much as you did for a spa (and I did) I would put it on a more permanent foundation i.e (concrete pad, treated wood deck etc.) This type of foundation has a much less probability of settling under weight and thats not rocket science. Obviously you are happy with placing your spa on the dirt, but personally I couldn't recommend that to anyone myself.

You know, I bet its ok to sit ot on dirt and be ok. i had this type of arguement with my mother in law over all things being to pre rinse your dishes before washing. I don't as the machine I have eliminates the need but I think she is doing what she knows was the standard same as I did and many of us here for a spa pad. I just turned 40 and I think I now know what it means to be set in ones way

[Roger]

In answer to spauserguy, the Forever Floor is warranteed against cracking for 5 years (10 for the Legend SE series) so I don't know where you're getting your info.

I would still put my investment on a foundation of some sort, no matter what. "it just makes sense" 5 years isn't enough time, I want to own my spa longer. I have all kinds of things to say but I am going to hold my tongue.

I have removed several brands for disposal, the ones sitting on a nice clean foundation are always in better shape than those sitting in the dirt, pee gravel, class 2, whatever!!

[wesj53]

I understand where you guys are coming from, but there are NO limitations on the floor or shell warranty. Think about this, why would ground settle without concrete (or pavers, etc) but not settle with concrete? Actually by adding the weight of concrete would you not add to the chance of settling? Plus, my ground has NEVER been disturbed and with the even distribution of weight with a filled tub, if there were to be any settling, it would be uniform. Also, (without drinking any Koolaid) you must see this floor and then form your opinions. This is not the standard ABS floor that most mfgs use; it is a super heavy duty fiberglass monster. I will take my chances without the pad. I guess we agree to disagree.

[paintnsunni]

true! set the tub up, get in and enjoy.... If it turns out bad, no biggie lifes to short to worry. Id say if the manufacturer is ok with it your fine. I bet its a really cool looking "monster" man tub. Tell us how it goes

[Roger]

true! set the tub up, get in and enjoy.... If it turns out bad, no biggie lifes to short to worry. Id say if the manufacturer is ok with it your fine. I bet its a really cool looking "monster" man tub. Tell us how it goes

So true wes ya got nothing to loose, the manufacturer backs it. How was that first soak? I bet it was heaven!

[Stevie]

I think you'll find most spas have an ABS tray on the bottom now. They have the same capabilities as the "forever floor" but the "name" is just spelled different! It should still be installed properly as mentioned.

[wesj53]

I think you'll find most spas have an ABS tray on the bottom now. They have the same capabilities as the "forever floor" but the "name" is just spelled different! It should still be installed properly as mentioned.

Having been in the plastics biz for about 10 years, there is a night and day difference between ABS and Fiberglas Stevie. I would suggest researching the subject first before putting out lame responses like yours.

[Glenn]

true! set the tub up, get in and enjoy.... If it turns out bad, no biggie lifes to short to worry. Id say if the manufacturer is ok with it your fine. I bet its a really cool looking "monster" man tub. Tell us how it goes

This is a good point, they dont call them portable for nothing, lol

[Stevie]

Having been in the plastics biz for about 10 years, there is a night and day difference between ABS and Fiberglas Stevie. I would suggest researching the subject first before putting out lame responses like yours.

These forums have sure changed over the years haven't they?

I love these "tough guys" sitting behind a computer screen.

Anyway, what I DID say is that these "trays" provide similar capabilities and NOT that they were all the same MATERIAL. Please slow down and sound out each word Wes.

What are the reasons for a "tray" under a spa?

- Protect the base structure from rot due to moisture

- Seal out critters

- Privide an even structure for weight distribution

- Trap residual heat

That being said, the function of EITHER material is the same and the life of either will be longer than the spa itself. What is your point wes?

Wanna try again with some respect?

[wesj53]

These forums have sure changed over the years haven't they?

I love these "tough guys" sitting behind a computer screen.

Anyway, what I DID say is that these "trays" provide similar capabilities and NOT that they were all the same MATERIAL. Please slow down and sound out each word Wes.

What are the reasons for a "tray" under a spa?

- Protect the base structure from rot due to moisture

- Seal out critters

- Privide an even structure for weight distribution

- Trap residual heat

That being said, the function of EITHER material is the same and the life of either will be longer than the spa itself. What is your point wes?

Wanna try again with some respect?

Some would respond to your last 2 posts by calling you a less than complimentary name, but since I am a gentleman with class, I won't resort to that. I'll answer your points very slowly so that YOU can FULLY understand, OK Stevie?

Are you another dealer who doesn't like consumers standing up to your "opinions" (or lack of knowledge)? Is that why you call me a "tough guy" sitting behind a computer screen? As to your statement about these forums changing (implying for the worse), is it that things were easier for people like you when there was no one out there to challenge you?

Secondly, you did not say "similar" capabilities; you clearly stated the "same" capabilities. Read you own post! It's clear you don't have a clue as to the differences between ABS plastic and fiberglas. And I don't have enough time nor the patience to explain them to you. So why don't you do a little research as I suggested and look up both materials to find out for yourself? In addition, do you know the thicknesses of all tray products? If you don't then how can you make the cavalier statement that basically they're all the same; just the name is spelled different!?! This is just plain ignorance, I'm sorry to say. Oh, but let me guess, the Forever Floor name is just another Arctic marketing ploy to sell people on their brand of KoolAid?!

Thirdly, we do agree on the purpose of such "trays"

Fourthly, the FUNCTION of all types of "trays" (bottoms or floors) is the same, but my point is they do not necessarily all PERFORM the same. Do you understand the difference Stevie between function and performance? That was my point and I'm sad to say I had to respond to you in such simplistic terms to explain it to you. (Once again, another indictment against our public school system.) Why are there so many people in this industry that refuse to admit that certain aspects of production between mfgs is different, and some better than others?

Finally, I was always taught by my parents that if you want respect, you have to earn it. Start using your God-given brain and think things out before you post next time. Respect will come.

[Roger]

Are you another dealer who doesn't like consumers standing up to your "opinions" (or lack of knowledge)?

Fourthly, the FUNCTION of all types of "trays" (bottoms or floors) is the same, but my point is they do not necessarily all PERFORM the same.

Why are there so many people in this industry that refuse to admit that certain aspects of production between mfgs is different, and some better than others?

Wes I agree with Steve sorry, but have given up on trying to convince you of anything. Sorry but the controversy is not worth it.

When I say I agree with Steve I mean it in the fact that IMO the forever floor is a useless gimick. The floor on any brand will outlast the tub, so whats the point.

But again you enjoy your new tub and you will be fine setting it where ever you want. I personaly would and will continue to reccomend putting any brand on a solid structure like a concrete slab, but it's just my opinion as yours is that the forever floor will actualy matter to the longevity of your spa. You will need to find out that it won't on your own.

[Glenn]

Wes I agree with Steve sorry, but have given up on trying to convince you of anything. Sorry but the controversy is not worth it.

When I say I agree with Steve I mean it in the fact that IMO the forever floor is a useless gimick. The floor on any brand will outlast the tub, so whats the point.

But again you enjoy your new tub and you will be fine setting it where ever you want. I personaly would and will continue to reccomend putting any brand on a solid structure like a concrete slab, but it's just my opinion as yours is that the forever floor will actualy matter to the longevity of your spa. You will need to find out that it won't on your own.

Maybe your buying the wrong tubs if the floor is lasting longer than the tub? maybe its time to open your mind to new and better designs.... , poor all the concrete you want, who cares really if you feel you must then do it...its hard to believe your in the industry servicing units when you say stupid things like the floor on any brand will outlast the tub and that the Forever Floor is a useless gimmick, you probably think all tires are the same too because there round and made of rubber... and Wes didnt ask you to convince him of anything, he has an opinion, you have an opinion, I have an opinion, thats what this place is for to argue about opinions in front of prospective tub buyers, most people are smart enough to take opinions do a little research on the net look at the tubs in person and make a decision, we all can agree on some things but seem to disagree on most that wont change, isnt this fun!

[wesj53]

I'm not suprised you agree with Stevie, Roger, but that's ok. As you have aptly put it, the controversy is not worth it. I'm ok with people having differing opinions about things, but I'm not ok with people making cavalier statements which have no basis of fact. IMO, Stevie's comments were totally iinaccurate. And for you to say the Forever Floor is a "useless gimick" is baseless, but something I'm not going to argue with you either.

I'm not sure I understand your last paragraph (maybe it was too early in the am for clarity) but time will tell as to the reliability of this flooring system. Take care Roger.

[Stevie]

Some would respond to your last 2 posts by calling you a less than complimentary name, but since I am a gentleman with class, I won't resort to that.

"I would suggest researching the subject first before putting out lame responses like yours." Yeah bud...that was a classy response!

Are you another dealer who doesn't like consumers standing up to your "opinions" (or lack of knowledge)?

Not a dealer at all. Just someone with over a decade of experience in a field you know very little about.

As to your statement about these forums changing (implying for the worse), is it that things were easier for people like you when there was no one out there to challenge you?

Not really wes. What I meant was people were more open to ask for clarification more respectfully without calling someones post "lame". You are so use to being defensive that you take everything as an attack. You really need to realize that this is an adult forum with professionals that have done their time. If you took the time, you'll notice that I don't slam any products and I've been on spa forums for many years. Your post and your seeming reputation indicates you haven't grasped the concept of forums and debating without being disrespectful. Before you slam off another mindless post, think about that!

Oh, but let me guess, the Forever Floor name is just another Arctic marketing ploy to sell people on their brand of KoolAid?!

I think you'llfind that I didn't say that so please don't play that game. You'll loose.

The Forever floor is a great addition to the Arctic design and I've never said otherwise. Most manufacturers have a similar concept on their spas which provide the same capabilities. Stop posturing.

Why are there so many people in this industry that refuse to admit that certain aspects of production between mfgs is different, and some better than others?

Who exactly are you trying to justify your purchase to? ME or yourself?

You wack jobs get so hung up on BEST that you loose sight of everything else. I'll agree that some other "trays" may only last 30-40 years where the forever floor may last 45. Great point wes.

Finally, I was always taught by my parents that if you want respect, you have to earn it. Start using your God-given brain and think things out before you post next time. Respect will come.

Too bad they didn't teach you manners...

Maybe your buying the wrong tubs if the floor is lasting longer than the tub? maybe its time to open your mind to new and better designs.... , poor all the concrete you want, who cares really if you feel you must then do it...its hard to believe your in the industry servicing units when you say stupid things like the floor on any brand will outlast the tub and that the Forever Floor is a useless gimmick, you probably think all tires are the same too because there round and made of rubber... and Wes didnt ask you to convince him of anything, he has an opinion, you have an opinion, I have an opinion, thats what this place is for to argue about opinions in front of prospective tub buyers, most people are smart enough to take opinions do a little research on the net look at the tubs in person and make a decision, we all can agree on some things but seem to disagree on most that wont change, isnt this fun!

I gotta disagree with ya Glenn. Much like the frame of a car outlasting the car itself, these structures on spas whether an ABS base, fiberglass or even 2x4 pressure treated base will outlast the tub itself without the need for maintence. I really didn't think anyone would disagree with that?