Cya Too High But Cant Drain Pool

[macgd016]

Hi, I'm new here but I hope that you can help me with a problem. I have an 8000 gallon pool in the South of Spain that has been behaving itself for 4 years or more. As is the practice in Spain chlorine is administered via Trichlor tablets and water chemistry is checked using OTO test kits.

Having read on this forum and others the importance of FC I got hold of some 6in1 test strips. All seems OK with the exception of CYA which seems to be about 300ppm. I recognise that this far from ideal but the refilling of pools is strictly prohibited in Spain due to water shortages. This being the case I have would like to only add chlorine without CYA until the CYA level is reduced through backwashing etc, however, I expect that this will take sometime.

From what I have read here I see that high levels of CYA reduce the effectiveness if chlorine which raises a couple of questions:

1. What level of FC would I need to maintain to counteract the high CYA level.

2. What level of FC is safe for swimming

[chem geek]

Have you been using any algaecide or phosphate remover or do you have metal ions (copper or silver) in your pool? If not, then you are fortunate you do not have algae growth and probably have low nitrates or phosphates.

To prevent algae growth using chlorine alone you want the FC to be 7.5% of the CYA level or higher -- absolute minimum at all times is 5%. That would be 15 ppm if the CYA is truly 300 ppm. This is technically equivalent to a pool with 0.05 ppm FC and no CYA so is quite safe for swimming, but you wouldn't want to drink large amounts of the water (not that you would). It's probably more economical to just use a supplemental algaecide, such as PolyQuat 60, to prevent algae growth and not worry so much about the FC, just keeping it around 5 ppm or so in that case. Either that, or cross your fingers and hope that whatever has kept algae at bay so far will continue.

Richard

[macgd016]

Have you been using any algaecide or phosphate remover or do you have metal ions (copper or silver) in your pool? If not, then you are fortunate you do not have algae growth and probably have low nitrates or phosphates.

To prevent algae growth using chlorine alone you want the FC to be 7.5% of the CYA level or higher -- absolute minimum at all times is 5%. That would be 15 ppm if the CYA is truly 300 ppm. This is technically equivalent to a pool with 0.05 ppm FC and no CYA so is quite safe for swimming, but you wouldn't want to drink large amounts of the water (not that you would). It's probably more economical to just use a supplemental algaecide, such as PolyQuat 60, to prevent algae growth and not worry so much about the FC, just keeping it around 5 ppm or so in that case. Either that, or cross your fingers and hope that whatever has kept algae at bay so far will continue.

Richard

Hi Richard

Thanks for your reply and info. The CYA has been this high at least since last Sept when I first tested it with test strips, however, I cant get a very accurate reading as the colour is not identical to any on the colour chart but is closest to 300ppm so its a bit of a guess. I hadn't thought of it before but I will dilute the pool water and retest to see what I get before taking any action. I do have some algaecide in already as a preventative measure and at the moment the FC is off the scale somewhere, probably about 10 or 12ppm, because my pool maintenance guy has had the pump running for 7 hours a day and tabs in both skimmers but I am hoping it will come down soon. I did swim last week though and the water smelt and tasted quite normal.

You say that keeping the FC at 15ppm is safe if the CYA is high, I recognise that there is a relationship between the effectiveness of chlorine and CYA but is this the same for red eyes etc? I only ask because this is a rental property and I wouldn't want any punters complaining of bleached hair or peeling skin!! In any case I think I will keep the FC at about 5ppm and use algaecide as you suggest.

Mac

[chem geek]

The chlorine/CYA relationship is real, but if you aren't sure of your CYA level then that's not so good. I suggest you get yourself a good test kit, the Taylor K-2006 you can get at a good online price here or the TF100 kit you can get here with the latter kit having 36% more volume of reagents so is less expensive "per test".

You can probably just have 10 ppm FC and be OK, especially since you have algaecide in the pool. However, stop using the chlorine tabs and use chlorinating liquid or bleach. With the tabs, you are only making the CYA problem worse. The following are chemical rules of fact that are independent of concentration of product or of pool size:

For every 10 ppm Free Chlorine (FC) added by Trichlor, it also increases Cyanuric Acid (CYA) by 6 ppm.

For every 10 ppm FC added by Dichlor, it also increases CYA by 9 ppm.

For every 10 ppm FC added by Cal-Hypo, it also increases Calcium Hardness (CH) by 7 ppm.

The high FC, independent of CYA, is an issue for drinking the water since the chlorine is released from the CYA. As for bleaching or effects on eyes or the effect on skin or hair, while in the water the reaction rates will be very slow as if the water had less than 0.1 ppm FC with no CYA, but when you get out of the water then evaporation on the swimsuit could concentrate the chlorine more and there will be more chlorine "capacity" to keep bleaching. So it's possible that there might be some more bleaching effect if someone is going in and out of the water frequently and having their swimsuit dried out in the sun each time. That's speculation, since I haven't heard of this happening, but it is possible.

I suspect no one will notice a difference since some pool services use 100 ppm CYA and raise the FC to 14 ppm weekly and their clients don't notice the high FC at all.

Richard

[maomaochong]

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[rbdeli]

As you, I started out using 6-1 test strips last year. My CYA results showed inaccurately high with the test strips. The Taylor K-2006 was about 100PPM lower and that's the one I believe:

Taylor K-2006.

Taylor also sells a kit just for CYA testing if you want to go that route.

K-1720

I'd go with K-2006, if nothing else, just for the FAS-DPD Chlorine tests.

I did partial drainings about 4-5 times a week last year to get my CYA down to about 120-150. It drove my wife crazy and she's worried I'm going to do it again this summer. (And I probably am)

Hi, I'm new here but I hope that you can help me with a problem. I have an 8000 gallon pool in the South of Spain that has been behaving itself for 4 years or more. As is the practice in Spain chlorine is administered via Trichlor tablets and water chemistry is checked using OTO test kits.

Having read on this forum and others the importance of FC I got hold of some 6in1 test strips. All seems OK with the exception of CYA which seems to be about 300ppm. I recognise that this far from ideal but the refilling of pools is strictly prohibited in Spain due to water shortages. This being the case I have would like to only add chlorine without CYA until the CYA level is reduced through backwashing etc, however, I expect that this will take sometime.

From what I have read here I see that high levels of CYA reduce the effectiveness if chlorine which raises a couple of questions:

1. What level of FC would I need to maintain to counteract the high CYA level.

2. What level of FC is safe for swimming