Heating My Pool

[Corey]

Hi, I am new at all this and have a 13' x 22' x 53" pool but cause of my climate (central Alberta) the pool is almost always too cold to swim in. After calling around I found no one that sells small pool heaters (electric) and I found a couple lights that are designed to produce a lot of heat and is weather resistant (meant for outdoor use) If I bought a couple of them and fixed them so they would project the heat down onto the water of the pool would it heat the pool up enough (with or without a solar cover on) or would it be a waste of time? any help with this would be appreciated.

[txpoolguy]

It's likely that you won't see any significant improvement, since the small amount of heat added to the water by the heat lamps will likely evaporate as fast as it goes in. I doubt the solar cover will make much difference, other than melting if the lights are mounted close enough to help at all. It's a novel approach, but I doubt you'll see much help. Gas heaters work well, do you have natural gas or would you be allowed a tank for LP or butane? You could also consider a small heat pump which could be a solution.

[Corey]

I have considered gas heaters but I have no way of hooking them up, I would need an external tank of gas that I would have to take into the city for refueling. I considered a heat pump but am not sure how good they are considering the climate here, I read that you need warm air for it to work good.

[txpoolguy]

The heat pumps generally cannot transfer heat into the water if the ambient air temp is below 50 degrees. They are best used to extend the swimming season a little, depending on the climate where you live. The small electric heaters are very expensive to run and heat slowly. Gas heat is best option, but the small tanks, such as you use for a propane grill are far too small to use. Introducing the heat into the pool, such as thru the returns, will give better results than introducing heat on the surface, which will tend to evaporate much faster. I know these options may not be preferable, but many people look at initial cost only, and fail to consider the long term cost.

[Pool-newb]

Have you considered wood? If you're rural it may be an appropriate option.

Search for my post from a few days ago and let me know if you have any questions.

[Pool Clown]

Have you considered wood? If you're rural it may be an appropriate option.

Search for my post from a few days ago and let me know if you have any questions.

I was wondering when you would jump in here newb

[Pathfinder]

Most of the pool dealers in your area have access to the K- Star line of electric heaters you would need a K-10 version retails for about $760

[Pool-newb]

I was wondering when you would jump in here newb

it shows?

It was pretty much after a long day of replacing plumbing - you think I'd be cured by now.

But now that the fire is going and the temp has increased about 3°F in about 6 hours, and it's already over 80°, and none of the heating has cost me a single cent, I got happy again.

¬

[Pool Clown]

It was pretty much after a long day of replacing plumbing -

Replace the plumbing?? Wud u do? Set the place on far?

[Corey]

I know these options may not be preferable, but many people look at initial cost only, and fail to consider the long term cost.

That is true and after research and calling surrounding communities the cheapest heater was an electric heater that cost $2100.00 CDN. It is a lot but thinking about the long term cost plus thinking I bought a pool for $1000.00 plus a SWG for $300 that I can only use on certain days due to pool temp not outdoor temp. it would be worth the cost in the long run.

Have you considered wood? If you're rural it may be an appropriate option.

Search for my post from a few days ago and let me know if you have any questions.

I will deffinately look into that, living on an acerage with lots of trees would make it a good possibility.

Most of the pool dealers in your area have access to the K- Star line of electric heaters you would need a K-10 version retails for about $760

I would be more than willing to pay that much for a heater (especially if it will work heating approx. 8200 gal. of water) cheapest I've found (That's calling Red Deer, Edmonton and Calgary) was $2100.00

[Pool-newb]

I will deffinately look into that, living on an acerage with lots of trees would make it a good possibility.

heh heh - start cutting wood now so it will be dry and ready to burn by the time you've made your decision :-)

Actually, the wood fired heater is just about made for rural applications. If you have a pickup anyway, and you don't mind cutting and splitting your own wood, it really is the cheapest way to go, and I have to say, despite the problems I've had, I am enjoying the whole process of building and tending a fire, and splitting some wood as I need it. Sort of gives me a reason to exercise.

If you just want to throw some money at the pool and have it warm with no hands on, this may not be so much for you - unless you find someone in the neighborhood you can pay to run the fire as needed.

Even if you get a decent electric heater they are horribly expensive to run. I talked to someone a few days ago that said he had his gas heater installed, used it one month then not again because he didn't like the $500 gas bill that month. I've heard that a lot from pool heater owners, although the costs I've heard are closer to $200/month with gas.

... does anyone have any more concrete numbers about what it costs to heat with gas, electric, heat pump, or other?

I'm currently heating mine, (my pool contains about the same amount of water as yours) and since yesterday evening (in 16 hours) the pool has gone from about 25°C to now just over 28°C.

To Pool Clown

"Replace the plumbing?? Wud u do? Set the place on far?"

I tried - We caught one of those nasty little afternoon springs rain storms that the area is so well known for while I happened to be running the heater. I wasn't worried because the with the heater burning fairly hot rainwater would evaporate as fast as it hit.

Then the power went out.

I still wasn't worried until my wife reminded me that I should probably put the fire out. But it was too late and some of the plumbing had softened and was hanging. It was still holding water but had developed several leaks - mostly around the threaded joints. So I replaced about 60% of the PVC. Cost just a little over $100 but took me a long day yesterday and that bothered me more.

░

[txpoolguy]

***How to calculate gas cost to heat a body of water***

1 btu heats 1 pound of water by 1 degree, so 8.3 btus to heat 1 gallon of water 1 degree.

1 cu. ft. natural gas = 1075 btus

1 gallon LP - 91,000 btus

multiply by your gas cost per cu. ft. NG or gallon LP.

400,000 btu natural gas heater burns 96.7 cu. ft. per hour

400,000 btu propane heater burns 4.4 gallons per hour.

***Temp Rise Per Hour***

Gallons of water X 8.3 (pounds per gallon) = pounds of water.

Heater BTU size X heater effeciency (78%-84%, depending on heater)

Divided by pounds of water

Equals temp rise per hour.

After you get done with the math, remember that this is for a laboratory situation, so allow for evaporation, air temps, an heat loss from other factors. Then multiply by your cost per therm to get approx cost to heat a body of water.

Kinda complicated, but it works

[Pool-newb]

***How to calculate gas cost to heat a body of water***

1 btu heats 1 pound of water by 1 degree, so 8.3 btus to heat 1 gallon of water 1 degree.

1 cu. ft. natural gas = 1075 btus

1 gallon LP - 91,000 btus

multiply by your gas cost per cu. ft. NG or gallon LP.

400,000 btu natural gas heater burns 96.7 cu. ft. per hour

400,000 btu propane heater burns 4.4 gallons per hour.

***Temp Rise Per Hour***

Gallons of water X 8.3 (pounds per gallon) = pounds of water.

Heater BTU size X heater efficiency (78%-84%, depending on heater)

Divided by pounds of water

Equals temp rise per hour.

After you get done with the math, remember that this is for a laboratory situation, so allow for evaporation, air temps, an heat loss from other factors. Then multiply by your cost per therm to get approx cost to heat a body of water.

Kinda complicated, but it works

Wow, thanks!

so ... my 8500 gal pool requires (8500 * 8.3 =) 70,550 BTUs to raise the temp 1°

that means I need (70,550 / 1075 = ) 65.628 cu ft gas to raise the temp 1°

we're paying about $0.91 / cu.ft. so for every 1° we would be paying (65.628 * 0.91) about $59.72

When the plumbing failed my pool was at about 83.0°F. about 5 days (4 days, 22 hrs) later it was at 77.4 which means a loss of 5.6°F for a loss of about 1.1°F per day.

That means in my pool I would expect to pay over $60/day just to maintain the temperature.

Can this be right???

If so it's time to build an enclosure.

[txpoolguy]

With fuel prices increasing like it has, it's not surprising. To put it in perspective, it's only a little more than a tank of gas for your truck.

Sorry, I don't have figures on how many btus 1 cord of oakwood yields, although I think it's more than sycamore, but less than cedar...lol

[nurlogorp]

have you checked solar heating?? just an idea..

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?...uct_id=10749553

[Corey]

have you checked solar heating?? just an idea..

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?...uct_id=10749553

Actually yes I did, I bought one and it worked a little (hottest pool got was 20 degrees C, 70 degrees F), I'm going to buy a second one and hopefully that will bring it up a little more to make it really nice.

[nurlogorp]

that is what I thought when I read the faq's about those solar heaters.. each one will heat something like 5-10 degrees.. is that right? For the price seems like a good idea if you have room to put them... They are pretty big.

[Corey]

that is what I thought when I read the faq's about those solar heaters.. each one will heat something like 5-10 degrees.. is that right? For the price seems like a good idea if you have room to put them... They are pretty big.

Yes that is right, but if you get a day with sun all day and warm temperatures (20-25 degrees C, 70-79 degrees F) it can climb about 15 degrees, it is recommended for a pool size like mine (8200 gal.) that you have two of them. Yes one does take up a lot of room but you can get a kit (or make one yourself) so you can lean one up onto the side of the pool and lay the other one on the ground. the biggest problem I had was setting it up, the 2 panels that came in it were rolled up together and it was hard unrolling them and keeping them unrolled so the sun could soften them up to make them more flexable, the second problem I had was leaks at 3 places where the water entered, the bypass valve, and where the water exited, I used plumbers tape on the threads and tightened them up really good but still ended up with leaks (a whole roll of duct tape on each one fixed that, lol)

[nurlogorp]

that is pretty neat... I would be interested in seeing a picture of your panels up against your pool.. I by no means need a heater living in the south.. but still pretty cool I think to have heated pool in like Feb or October.. LOL

[Corey]

that is pretty neat... I would be interested in seeing a picture of your panels up against your pool.. I by no means need a heater living in the south.. but still pretty cool I think to have heated pool in like Feb or October.. LOL

Sounds good, when I buy the second panel I am also going to buy the mounting kit and I will take pictures to show you.

[grandee1]

that is pretty neat... I would be interested in seeing a picture of your panels up against your pool.. I by no means need a heater living in the south.. but still pretty cool I think to have heated pool in like Feb or October.. LOL

Sounds good, when I buy the second panel I am also going to buy the mounting kit and I will take pictures to show you.

In my last pool I purchased a Hayward ABG Heat pump. I had a 20/14 Splash SuperPool. It worked excellent. I now have a larger unit in an in ground pool. Yesterday the temp dipped into the upper 50’s and my pool stayed at 85. I think a HP would do the trick.

[Pool-newb]

Corey, Just looking through all this here it looks like these are your options:

Solar - Cheap to purchase, easy to install, zero cost to operate but not very effective unless you install a lot of them. You probably have the space to add several more and they aren't horribly expensive. You can also add them without excluding any other form of heating, but they may not work well in winter.

Heat pump - a bit expensive to purchase and install but cheap in the long run. It will use electricity but but not as a resistive heat source which would be waaaay too expensive. Also won't do much when outside temps are below about 10° or 15°C so it won't extend your season much.

Wood fired - a little cheaper to purchase than a heat pump, very simple to install can be cheap to operate. It will also provide lots of heat year round. However, it does require extra effort and energy (and money if you don't have the trees) cutting the trees, storing the wood till it's ready to burn, and keeping the fire going while it's heating the pool.

One other possibility that you may have already considered - is the pool itself well insulated? I know that a solar cover makes a huge difference (if you don't have one yet, get one soon. Very effective!) and I could imagine having an insulated shell around the outside of the pool could go a long way to reducing heat loss once you do get it warmed up.

Make sure you post some photos of your decision :-)

[barko1213]

Hello,

I am new to the form and wanted to share information on a wood burning pool heater.

I constructed the system from about $230 worth of material and it had taken about 6 hours.

It is heating a 30,000 gallon pool, raising it about 5 deg F per day. The system does not look

out of place, but you be the judge.

I will try to enclose a photo.

If I can't, please respond with an email address and I will send it to you.

Thanks.

-Mark

[Corey]

Just as the pool was warming up nicely and I was going to take a picture (with lawn cut and everything to look nice, lol) I get a nice dump of snow (5 cm of it) so now I have to wait till it melts, that also means no swimming for about a week I may end up considering a wood burning heater to speed up the process then have solar as a back up.

[Pool-newb]

Snow - ugh. I moved to a warmer climate mostly because of that!

Actually it can be fun to swim in a steaming pool with snow laying all around. I'm assuming even in Alberta the May snows don't last long but whether the do or not I assume the bigger problem would be getting from a warm house into an outdoor pool without losing a body part to frostbite. :-)

Sounds like a great area for an outdoor sauna too.