Help - I'm A Chemistry Moron And My Husband Is Color Blind

[rttoys]

I have been fighting my hottub since we refilled it in mid-January. I think my husband and I have used it only one time since then. It stays covered all day with a vinyl cover. We use the following chemicals:

Chemicals I have on hand:

Leslies Bromine Sanitizer tablets to put in floating duck (1-bromo-3-chloro-5, 5-dimethylhydantoin ... 60%; 1,3-dichloro-5, 5-dimethylhydantoin... 27.4%; 1,3-dichloro-5-ethyl-5-methylhydantoin... 10.6%)

Leslies Dry Acid (sodium bisulfate 97%)

Leslies Chlor Brite Sanitizer (sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione dihydrate... 99%)

misc. alkalininity up, ph increaser, ph decreaser (but haven't used them on this fill)

Here are recent readings using Poolmaster Basic 4 Test test kit:

2/19

Total Chlorine/Bromine- 5+ (off the charts)

Free Chlorine - 5+ (off the charts)

pH- 6.8 or lower (off the charts)

TA- 20

Cyanuric Acid - 0

2/16

Total Chlorine/Bromine- 0

Free Chlorine - 0

pH- 8.2

TA- 60

Cyanuric Acid - 0

2/14

Total Chlorine/Bromine- 0

Free Chlorine - 0

pH- 8.2

TA- 80

Cyanuric Acid - 0

1/30

Total Chlorine/Bromine- 2.0

Free Chlorine - 2.0

pH- 8.2

TA- 60

Cyanuric Acid - 0

1/17 (first filled)

Total Chlorine/Bromine- 2.2

Free Chlorine - didn't test

pH- 8.2

TA- 120

Cyanuric Acid - 0

Our hottub is strictly for me and my husband (no suits aloud). We haven't used it since sometime between 1/17 and 1/30.

My questions - why am I having so much difficulty getting my hot tub useable? When is it safe to get in? We haven't used it since sometime between 1/17 and 1/30 due to inconsistent readings of pH and TA now chlorine. Can you explain to a chemistry moron (who would rather not have hot tub chemical duty) an easy program for maintaining our spa for the most usage by the two of us? My husband is color-blind so he says he can't do the testing.

Hot tub: purchased 2006

Catalina - Miami Heat

has 2 waterfalls

Your help is so anticipated and very appreciated.

Thank you,

rttoys

[whodyawant]

I have been fighting my hottub since we refilled it in mid-January. I think my husband and I have used it only one time since then. It stays covered all day with a vinyl cover. We use the following chemicals:

Chemicals I have on hand:

Leslies Bromine Sanitizer tablets to put in floating duck (1-bromo-3-chloro-5, 5-dimethylhydantoin ... 60%; 1,3-dichloro-5, 5-dimethylhydantoin... 27.4%; 1,3-dichloro-5-ethyl-5-methylhydantoin... 10.6%)

Leslies Dry Acid (sodium bisulfate 97%)

Leslies Chlor Brite Sanitizer (sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione dihydrate... 99%)

misc. alkalininity up, ph increaser, ph decreaser (but haven't used them on this fill)

Here are recent readings using Poolmaster Basic 4 Test test kit:

2/19

Total Chlorine/Bromine- 5+ (off the charts)

Free Chlorine - 5+ (off the charts)

pH- 6.8 or lower (off the charts)

TA- 20

Cyanuric Acid - 0

2/16

Total Chlorine/Bromine- 0

Free Chlorine - 0

pH- 8.2

TA- 60

Cyanuric Acid - 0

2/14

Total Chlorine/Bromine- 0

Free Chlorine - 0

pH- 8.2

TA- 80

Cyanuric Acid - 0

1/30

Total Chlorine/Bromine- 2.0

Free Chlorine - 2.0

pH- 8.2

TA- 60

Cyanuric Acid - 0

1/17 (first filled)

Total Chlorine/Bromine- 2.2

Free Chlorine - didn't test

pH- 8.2

TA- 120

Cyanuric Acid - 0

Our hottub is strictly for me and my husband (no suits aloud). We haven't used it since sometime between 1/17 and 1/30.

My questions - why am I having so much difficulty getting my hot tub useable? When is it safe to get in? We haven't used it since sometime between 1/17 and 1/30 due to inconsistent readings of pH and TA now chlorine. Can you explain to a chemistry moron (who would rather not have hot tub chemical duty) an easy program for maintaining our spa for the most usage by the two of us? My husband is color-blind so he says he can't do the testing.

Hot tub: purchased 2006

Catalina - Miami Heat

has 2 waterfalls

Your help is so anticipated and very appreciated.

Thank you,

rttoys

First, I have to say that is the BEST subject line I have ever seen!!! [giggle, ha, snort] What did you start out with? I mean, did you start a bank (ie. what did you put in on the refill to start off?)? Did you test your water right after refill and see what you needed to add on the initial refill? And what in the heck happened between 2/16 and 2/19? Did you add chemical on 2/16? I am not familiar at all with "Leslie's" products. I have never heard of them... local place?

The folks on here will need a little more info before answering, such as:

Size of tub; capacity; is this your first refill; what kind of water do you fill with (ie. well water, city water, hard water, soft water); bought new or used; did dealer give instruction; how long did it sit empty before refill, or did it? Just a short history... For chemical knowledge, Chem Geek on this forum is your man. He can talk chemistry more than your brain can handle. And there are many other very informative and knowledgeable folks on here that are SO helpful (Nitro, Hillbilly, etc, etc). Learn how to search the forum properly by using phrases and not just words. They have helped me more than I can say. Don't be discouraged. It is a learning curve, but once you get it, and you learn what works well with the user's habits and body chemistry, a hot tub is easier than taking care of the cat or dog (or bird or gerbil).

Be patient, and good luck,

Who

[Raegor]

Buy this for your husband and pass the chem duties back onto him...

http://www.spadepot.com/shop/AquaChek-TruT...it-P842C60.aspx

[chem geek]

Buy this for your husband and pass the chem duties back onto him...

http://www.spadepot.com/shop/AquaChek-TruT...it-P842C60.aspx

You have to be careful in order to get consistent results with the AquaCheck TruTest. See this thread and this post and this thread and this thread.

For consistent accuracy and a chlorine test that even color blind people can use, I suggest for chlorine either the Taylor K-2006 you can get at a good online price here or the TF100 test kit from tftestkits.com here with the latter kit having 36% more volume of reagents so a little lower priced "per test". Though you can use these tests for bromine as well (multiplying the chlorine reading by 2.25 to get the bromine level), you can alternatively get the Taylor K-2106 for bromine shown here.

The one thing that test strips do not measure is Calcium Hardness. Some strips measure Total Hardness, but that is not the same as it includes magnesium as well as calcium while only calcium matters for scaling. The above Taylor (or Taylor-based) kits all measure Calcium Hardness (CH). The FAS-DPD chlorine test in the kits is a "count the drops" test as shown in the demo link on this page. Only the pH test requires a color match (the TA and CH tests have color transitions).

Richard

[rttoys]

I cut and pasted your questions here.

What did you start out with? I mean, did you start a bank (ie. what did you put in on the refill to start off?)?

On 1/17 it was a fresh refill of city water - I took a baseline test

Did you test your water right after refill and see what you needed to add on the initial refill? Yes the 1/17 test was to see what I needed - since there was no chlorine/bromine level I put in a bromine starter kit and the bromine tabs in the floating duck

And what in the heck happened between 2/16 and 2/19? I have been trying to get the pH down and the TA correct - I have added 1 oz of dry acid (see next question)

Did you add chemical on 2/16? yes I added 1 oz of dry acid and when I saw that I had no chlorine/bromine, I increased the bromine tabs in the duck and added 1 oz of the Chlor Brite

I am not familiar at all with "Leslie's" products. I have never heard of them... local place? Yes they are the local pool supplier - they aren't much help - just keep selling me more chemicals that I do home with and am unclear what to do

The folks on here will need a little more info before answering, such as:

Size of tub; I guesstimate it is between 360 and 480 gallons. It has an opening of about 5.5' x 5', it has 4 deep seats - the deepest part of the spa is 23.5" deep

is this your first refill? no we refill it about every 4 - 6 months (it doesn't get used much at all)

what kind of water do you fill with (ie. well water, city water, hard water, soft water); city water

bought new or used? bought new

did dealer give instruction; The dealer gave me Leisure Time kit but that was many years back and the Leslie's near me doesn't carry this brand

how long did it sit empty before refill, or did it? It sat empty for about 2 months

Learn how to search the forum properly by using phrases and not just words. - Any thread you can direct me to that shows tips on this? I have read many posts on this forum and have found them helpful but dangerous... maybe because I really don't know what I am doing and now that I am testing with a real kit and not just test strips I am paying more attention to the water chemistry. I have tested with strips from the time we bought the tub till January. Now I am armed with a test kit, albeit it isn't the Taylor kit.

Thanks so much for your help and telling me the things I need to provide in order to get the help I need. Oh... and I have been that lady that just dumps stuff in the pool... sorry. I am trying to get better.

rttoys

[rttoys]

Buy this for your husband and pass the chem duties back onto him...

- I think he uses being color-blind as an excuse so he doesn't have to maintain the spa. Just last night he told me we could get rid of it if I didn't want to mess with spa maintenance anymore.

I checked out the Taylor video on the FAS-DPD kit- I did that a week ago and was glad to see that they say to count 1,2,3 after the swirl, my test kit was pretty vague.

Regarding Calcium Hardness. My pool supplier said that since my spa isn't a plaster pool, it is irrelevant about the Calcium Hardness. They have led me wrong before, so should I be concerned with the calcium hardness too?

Thanks Chem Geek, Who, and others who are reading and repyling to my post. Your help is very appreciated.

rttoys

[chem geek]

Regarding Calcium Hardness. My pool supplier said that since my spa isn't a plaster pool, it is irrelevant about the Calcium Hardness. They have led me wrong before, so should I be concerned with the calcium hardness too?

You certainly would need to be concerned if the Calcium Hardness (CH) was too high since that can lead to scaling. If your fill water is low in CH, say 100 ppm or less, then the risk for scaling is low unless your TA and/or pH got high. As to whether CH is needed to maintain a near-zero saturation index to prevent corrosion, that's an open question. Your dealer is right that plaster/gunite/grout would clearly need saturation of calcium carbonate in the water; it is less clear if it is needed to inhibit metal corrosion. I'm not as worried about that, but others are (especially if there were ceramics in pumps, etc.) so to play it safe it's something to consider.

Richard

[rttoys]

Regarding Calcium Hardness. My pool supplier said that since my spa isn't a plaster pool, it is irrelevant about the Calcium Hardness. They have led me wrong before, so should I be concerned with the calcium hardness too?

You certainly would need to be concerned if the Calcium Hardness (CH) was too high since that can lead to scaling. If your fill water is low in CH, say 100 ppm or less, then the risk for scaling is low unless your TA and/or pH got high. As to whether CH is needed to maintain a near-zero saturation index to prevent corrosion, that's an open question. Your dealer is right that plaster/gunite/grout would clearly need saturation of calcium carbonate in the water; it is less clear if it is needed to inhibit metal corrosion. I'm not as worried about that, but others are (especially if there were ceramics in pumps, etc.) so to play it safe it's something to consider.

Richard

Thank you - I will go back to checking the CH. Now back to my previous questions and some new ones.

Why am I having so much difficulty getting my hot tub useable? (Any apparent problems?)

How can I lower the chlorine/bromine?

When is it safe to get in? (Could we have used the tub during some of those previous test readings?)

Does the high chlorine skew the pH and TA readings?

Should I just do a refill and start fresh?

Thank you,

rttoys

[KDenham]

"I guesstimate it is between 360 and 480 gallons. It has an opening of about 5.5' x 5', it has 4 deep seats - the deepest part of the spa is 23.5" deep"

I question if you are adding chemicals based on the wrong gallon-age. If you spa is 5.5' and only 23.5" deep I don't think you have 360 Gallons. Mine is 7'X7'X34" and it only holds 320 Gallons. Your manual should show you exact capacity.

[hottubdan]

This is your most current readings:

2/19

Total Chlorine/Bromine- 5+ (off the charts)

Free Chlorine - 5+ (off the charts)

pH- 6.8 or lower (off the charts)

TA- 20

Cyanuric Acid - 0

Others may disagree. Here is my take:

• Pick one guru. You will get many different opinions.
• Since you are using bromine, do not be concerned with chlorine readings. Can you adjust your floater?
• Although you don't want your bromine levels as high as they are, they should be safe.
• Do you shock the water?
• Focus on TA. Ignore pH for now. You need to add TA increaser (Baking soda). Can't tell you how much as you don't know how many gallons you are treating.

Good luck. Keep us posted.

[whodyawant]

I am sorry I didn't reply sooner. I was trying to gather my thoughts and they ran amuck. Here is a great post from Nitro. Nitro's Approach To Water Maintaince, A guide to water balance and sanitation using chlorine. Within Nitro's post, he links you to Waterbear's post about bromine spa/pool. Both posts are excellent in that they give you all the information in one place whether you use chlorine or bromine. I tend to go all over the forums, gathering bits and pieces and forgetting where I saw it, how to find it again, or even why I was looking! So I keep the above posts on my computer to refer back to all the time.

Now, I am no expert. I have had troubles of my own with my hot tub. But here are just a couple thoughts I have regarding your scenario.

I am a bit concerned that your bromine was at zero for around 2 weeks. Having a zero on your sanitizer is a "no, no" and that may cause you trouble. Did your bromine level drop from 2/19 to now? Have you added anything more since 2/19? I am not familiar with the floating duck dispenser. Like Hottubdan asked, can you adjust it? If not, maybe a bromine dispenser that can be adjusted and locked my be a good idea.

On the PH & TA - reading Nitro's post should help you. I can say from my own experience messing around too much with the Ph Up or Ph Down can create a seesaw result! When I learned you can just add a little baking soda to raise certainly helped me. And when raising or lowering PH/TA - do so in small increments and wait a while before testing again. Keep in mind that if you test just after shocking or aerating the tub, your result may not be accurate and you should give it time before testing again.

When I talk about searching the forum, you can narrow down your results if you use the advanced search and the booleans. Secondly, like hottubdan said... find a guru and look at all of his or her posts on here. There are many very knowledgeable folks.