whodyawant

Me too, and I hate that. Have to deal with those ba****s on my email, and now they pm me here. Let's get a bazooka.

Indeed! Nice to see you again Roger, and thank you for all your great advice last year!

I haven't been on this side of the forum for a long time, but when I was looking for a new spa, they sure helped me a lot. Roger was great! He never told me which brand to buy and he never talked badly about any manufacturer. He just gave me great advice on what to look for when choosing one for yourself. Anyhoo, I started out with two manufacturers in mind and ended up getting a completely different spa! We got a CalSpas. I didn't even consider them because I looked them up on the internet and on these forums and, well, they had kind of a bad rap. But I knew a friend who had one for 15 years with no problems, so we went and wet tested. The comfort was perfect for us, the look was nice, and we ended up paying less for it than the others I was looking at. (keep in mind, one dealer was far higher in price than another dealer we found). For the price it had more options, more jets, and more comfortable seating for us 5'9" people. Their warranty was equal to the others and we took the plunge a year ago. I don't know if you have a dealer there, but if so... give 'em a look. We bought an Avalon A734L, 7' x 7' with lounger, 6 person, 34 jets for $6500 us dollars. That price included delivery (80 miles away), set up, a free heavy insulated hottub cover and cover holder (that assists you in lifting it up), and steps. Yes. The price you pay should include those things. If they want to charge you extra for delivery, set up, a cover, and steps, I think they are taking advantage of you. We did, however, have to have a proper foundation and support on our deck and all our electrical in place prior to set up. I must say, it has been a great hottub. We have had no problems yet. We haven't even had a jet "come apart" like others had complained. One bit of advice though... wet test! I would not have done so if the folks on this forum hadn't insisted. Just my two cents!!

Holy moly, Marcus! Your post scared me! Perhaps your post should not be in the Onzen section, but start a post of your own. I'm not familiar with the Onzen system, but it doesn't sound like that is your problem. Perhaps you should call a different dealer. You should also read up in your manual or online about balancing your water, etc. And when you said the dealer told you to not worry about using your test strips until you think there's a problem?? That's preposterous. By all means, test your water very frequently when you are a newbie! P.S. I would drain it and start again. When hair falls out... uh, you have a problem. Cost to refill? or health insurance/medical bills? Hmm... I'd go with a refill! Tom?

I'm curious about this topic because we have a Kinetico water softener in our home, and even with that we always get some of that reddish goo in our toilet bowls before they need a cleaning. I always figured it was iron, and so didn't believe our softener took that out of our city water. I have always tried to fill our spa by turning our soft water on bypass and filling it with the city water, but have had times when I have rubbed the scum line off of my spa with a white washcloth and the residue would have a reddish tint. I must say though, I have used two different products in my spa. One is Quantum Sequest-All and the other is Leisure Time's Defender. When I use Defender, I did not have so much of that tint to the scum line. You add the whole bottle on an initial fill. As far as having it in the water lines-I have never checked, I may have it there too. Perhaps on a new fill you should try one of the "swirl away" products that you add prior to draining. I have not tried one of the products yet, but that would be something I would look at first. The folks on here would have some good suggestions for such a product. And I wouldn't mind knowing their answer to that question as well!

Thanks Nitro. Your timing is perfect. After I read this I went back to your "chlorine demand" post to refresh my memory. I probably would have slacked off a bit on the shocking, just because if I see an FC reading between 1 and 5 each day, I would not get too concerned. But (I'm assuming here) if you don't regularly shock or shock after a heavy use just because you check it, and you're still at a "3" let's say, that doesn't mean your spa will not use that "3" up in a day, trying to get rid of the stuff. Right? Oh, I don't know if I worded that question properly! But do you get my drift? Also, I remember reading somewhere here about keeping the cover off when superchlorinating, but I can't remember the specifics. Is it a good idea to keep the cover off for a time to let it "gas off" after superchlorinating? Even if you are only bringing it up to 10ppm? One more question, Nitro. Is it possible I will not have to use borates at all? Or, after my water becomes older, I will? How will I know? If my pH starts to bounce? What are the clues? I guess I just didn't want to add one more thing, unless it was truly required.

Did you have to add Dry Acid to get your ph down after it was raised by aeration, or did it fall back into range on its own? The pH falls to 7.5 by itself after we have used it with the bubbles on. I have not had to add anymore dry acid. Before, when we used the bromine, we liked it too, and we liked the convenience of being able to leave it for days without worry. But without use the bromine really seemed to build up and get very high. We used a feeder cracked to the lowest setting. However, after my husband's rash, we were advised that if he had developed a sensitivity to bromine, he may now always have that sensitivity, so we switched. This chlorine regimen might require attention daily, or every couple days, but like Nitro has said, it's just a moment or two of your day, and quite simple once you get the hang of it!

I wanted to post my experience so far with Nitro/Chem Geek’s chlorine plan. So far, so great! Since we got our spa in August of ’08 we used bromine. Occasionally we would each get a little patch of itchy bumps, then my husband got a dreadful rash all over his body in January that lasted one month. Dermatologist said it was dermatitis that could have been caused by anything… bromine, mps, other chemicals, allergy to soap, water too hot, air too cold, etc. He prescribed a cortisone shot and some cream and finally, the hubby was back to normal! Back then Chem Geek suspected our bromine might have been too high. I refilled, messed around with that, got it good, but after just one more use, my husband got rashy again, so… I started Nitro’s Approach after decontamination of my spa and on a new fill April 6th. My spa is 430 gallons. We have soft water and I forgot to put it on bypass and filled my spa with soft. YIKES! Just after the fill my hardness was 40 ppm; pH >8.5; TA 150; FC 0. Using Nitro’s directions, I first added the recommended amount of Dichlor to shock my spa to 12 ppm to verify decontamination (see “decontamination” on Nitro’s links). Once I knew my spa was good (no bugs), I then got my water a little harder with Leisure Time Calcium Booster. I wrote down EVERYTHING (test results and amounts added) in a little notebook because I can’t rely on my memory anymore!! Using Nitro’s directions I thought I should first get hardness up to at least 100 and test all again. Once I did that I then followed his directions to the letter on balancing my water using the ‘add dry acid and aerate method’ to get my TA to an acceptable range, then the pH. It took me three days to tweak it because I could only work on it in the evenings after work. Indeed, after adding dry acid and aerating, my pH would skyrocket. In the meantime I went to pool calculator that Nitro recommended (learned how to measure ppms!) and just fiddled with the figures. You know, like a “what if?” scenario. I would change my “goals” in the different sections just to see what scenario would put my CSI at zero while keeping my pH and TA in an acceptable range. If I tweaked the hardness, lowered the TA or changed the temperature, it would affect all readings. My experimenting on the pool calculator with my desired temperature of 101 told me I needed to get my hardness up to around 190ppm, CYA at 24, pH at 7.5, and TA at 90 in order to have my CSI at 0. Maybe it was just luck, but I was finally balanced on day 3 (April 9th) after the new fill. All said, I added a total of 16.5 ounces of Leisure Time Calcium Booster; 5 ounces of dry acid; 2½ ounces of Dichlor; and 1 ounce Quantum Sequest-All (mineral protection) from the time I filled to my switch to Clorox. I did not add enzyme, mps, or anything else. It is now April 25th and my pH has remained at 7.5 and raises to < 8.0 when aerating. My TA has remained at 90. I have not used one ounce of MPS to shock (and don’t want to use it ever). I have not added any borates (yet). I have not had to add any pH up or down. I have “super shocked” once by adding enough bleach to bring my FC up to 12ppm (thanks again to the pool calculator to tell me how much bleach that takes)! Three of us (me, my husband and my 11 yr old daughter) use our tub twice a week after we’ve showered. Our suits are rinsed with clean water only (not laundered) and we soak for approx. ½ hour on each use. In the last two weeks I have checked FC, TA, and pH daily. With our bodies, and our use, I have had to add an average of 1 ounce of bleach every two days. Do not forget to test prior to and after each use! One day our FC was at 3 – we soaked for ½ hour and when I checked afterward it was at .5! If I had not checked until the next day we would have had trouble! Remember, we all have different body chemicals and we all perspire differently which can affect your use of free chlorine. For example, one clean guest in our spa will change our use of FC considerably compared to just us. Different body chemicals I figure. One tip I have is this… when you are trying to make your spa perfectly balanced, by all means use a drop test kit! But for just checking levels before a soak and after, go ahead and use the strip. What I did was bought a new box of strips and I checked my spa on the strip then immediately checked it with my drops to see the difference between the two. Now I know that my strip always tell me my pH is a little higher than my drop test and they say my FC is always 1 ppm or more lower than it really is. Oh! And check the expiration date on those puppies. It DOES make a difference! I have some strips that expired and my readings were all wrong! Oops, one more tip. A lot of hot tub manuals or hot tub chemical manufacturers suggest on a new fill and weekly maintenance to add your sanitizer, metal sequester, enzyme eater, foam reducer, etc., etc. I bought it and used to throw it all in, like I was told but would still get scum or scale or foam. I swam in a chemical cocktail. Guess what? After Nitro’s Approach and by not adding ANY of those things I DON’T have any scum, scale, or foam. Hmmm… suspicious! Chem Geek and Nitro, thank you so much! We love getting in our spa again. We smell little or no chemical, we have saved money, and our bodies feel great (no itch)! Sure, I may have to check my spa every couple days or have someone baby sit it when we are on vacation, but so far it is working out fabulously! I will certainly keep you posted! *Disclaimer: Any newbie out there reading this… if your initial readings were the same as mine, don’t just dump in the amounts that I did to get the same outcome! Water, outdoor temperature, users, and frequency of use is different with everyone. Just test, test, test, and test again with YOUR spa! Thanks again guys!! Who

Thanks so much, Nitro. I agree, I don't want to keep testing until I know I am close. That's a lot of drops! I have been to the pool calculator and it has helped me immensely, however, I still don't see where it will convert ppms for me. At least now I know how many ppms = 1 oz in my tub. I can multiply or divide from there.

OK, I am starting up our spa on a new fill, and I am trying the "Nitros Approach" for chlorine (Chem Geek's formula). In the instruction, Nitro talks about calculating your CYA rather than testing each time to see when you are at the 20-30ppm level. See below: "I find that it's easier to keep track of how much Dichlor you're adding to the tub and calculate the CYA, rather than testing CYA with the drop test kit until you get a 30 ppm reading. For every 10 ppm of Dichlor you add to your tub, you add 9 ppm CYA. So roughly 34 ppm Dichlor will give you 30 CYA. On a fresh fill, and after your water is balanced by the above method, shock your tub with Dichlor to 10 ppm FC. Then over the course of the next days, depending on bather load, add 24 ppm more FC using Dichlor." I drained my spa, decontaminated (just for good measure) and added "a smidgen over" 1 oz of Dichlor which according to the chart in the spa decontamination instructions would be 10 ppm (ie. in a 500 gallon spa 12.5 oz dichlor=100ppm, so I divided by 10 to get 10ppm, hence the 1.25 oz). Did I screw that up? So then, would I be safe to assume that if I were to add 2 more ounces of Dichlor in the next week or so, I would be around the 25 CYA mark? Is each ounce of Dichlor roughly 10ppm in my 430 gallon spa? Is there an easy way to calculate how much of an ingredient equals 1ppm or 5ppm in a 430 gallon spa? It helps if I know in measurements, like 1/2 ounce, or one tablespoon. I am mathmatically challenged. I hope I don't seem like a Doof... I couldn't even find a conversion calculator on Google that made sense! Some days I struggle...

Okay, so I have a question here. If I was looking to convert our spa from bromine to the dichlor/chlorine method, and we have soft water would that be a way to initially raise my CYA and also increase hardness to our water, then once the CYA was high enough switch over to the dichlor/bleach method? I ask, because I already have that product on hand. Use it as my "bank" on initial refill so to speak? Ugh, I hope you pros don't think that's a silly question. Who

Whith today's lovely health care he did not do a culture. I do hate our family clinic! Im almost to the point with health insurance Id rather go to the vet clinic! It is good to know that cultures can be done on that stuff probably not at my clinic there too lazy to get out the med school manual to remember how to do somthing like that. She will be going to a skin doc (dermetologist) next Give us an update. We have been going through the same problem. However, since my husband's last soak, his rash has remained for... well the last time he was in it was on January 16th. His rash appeared 3-4 days later. His rash has not cleared up and it has been over a month. He has not been to the doctor, he does not have dry skin or sensitive skin, but he has been using moisturizer to help it clear up... however, that does not seem to be working. We are also using bromine and shocking with MPS. I am considering a decontamination, refill and switching to chlorine so I am trying to get little bits of information from people who are having the same problem. Any update would be appreciated.

I am sorry I didn't reply sooner. I was trying to gather my thoughts and they ran amuck. Here is a great post from Nitro. Nitro's Approach To Water Maintaince, A guide to water balance and sanitation using chlorine. Within Nitro's post, he links you to Waterbear's post about bromine spa/pool. Both posts are excellent in that they give you all the information in one place whether you use chlorine or bromine. I tend to go all over the forums, gathering bits and pieces and forgetting where I saw it, how to find it again, or even why I was looking! So I keep the above posts on my computer to refer back to all the time. Now, I am no expert. I have had troubles of my own with my hot tub. But here are just a couple thoughts I have regarding your scenario. I am a bit concerned that your bromine was at zero for around 2 weeks. Having a zero on your sanitizer is a "no, no" and that may cause you trouble. Did your bromine level drop from 2/19 to now? Have you added anything more since 2/19? I am not familiar with the floating duck dispenser. Like Hottubdan asked, can you adjust it? If not, maybe a bromine dispenser that can be adjusted and locked my be a good idea. On the PH & TA - reading Nitro's post should help you. I can say from my own experience messing around too much with the Ph Up or Ph Down can create a seesaw result! When I learned you can just add a little baking soda to raise certainly helped me. And when raising or lowering PH/TA - do so in small increments and wait a while before testing again. Keep in mind that if you test just after shocking or aerating the tub, your result may not be accurate and you should give it time before testing again. When I talk about searching the forum, you can narrow down your results if you use the advanced search and the booleans. Secondly, like hottubdan said... find a guru and look at all of his or her posts on here. There are many very knowledgeable folks.

First, I have to say that is the BEST subject line I have ever seen!!! [giggle, ha, snort] What did you start out with? I mean, did you start a bank (ie. what did you put in on the refill to start off?)? Did you test your water right after refill and see what you needed to add on the initial refill? And what in the heck happened between 2/16 and 2/19? Did you add chemical on 2/16? I am not familiar at all with "Leslie's" products. I have never heard of them... local place? The folks on here will need a little more info before answering, such as: Size of tub; capacity; is this your first refill; what kind of water do you fill with (ie. well water, city water, hard water, soft water); bought new or used; did dealer give instruction; how long did it sit empty before refill, or did it? Just a short history... For chemical knowledge, Chem Geek on this forum is your man. He can talk chemistry more than your brain can handle. And there are many other very informative and knowledgeable folks on here that are SO helpful (Nitro, Hillbilly, etc, etc). Learn how to search the forum properly by using phrases and not just words. They have helped me more than I can say. Don't be discouraged. It is a learning curve, but once you get it, and you learn what works well with the user's habits and body chemistry, a hot tub is easier than taking care of the cat or dog (or bird or gerbil). Be patient, and good luck, Who

Your numbers do seem off, but I will defer to the experts on here. As you can see from my previous posts, we are having trouble too. Did your doctor take a sample or biopsy? Or did he or she just look at the rash? Do you use bromine or chlorine? Our rashes were getting a little better because we stayed out of the hot tub, but now the rashes are worsening and we haven't been back in the hot tub! Chem Geek has given me some great replies that I will be trying. Take a look at his and Nitro's posts. Beleive... update us on your switch to chlorine.