cocoabailey

Hi BMR, I have an Arctic tub and I am familiar with the filters you are talking about. Basically it comes down to how many square feet of material the filter is made up of. I believe a normal generic filter is around 50 square feet (sf), where the arctic filters are 900 sf. In any case I find the best way to go is to run two generic filters (50 sf) and alternate them weekly. Cleaning one when the other is in use. The arctic does filter down to a finer particle level, however this is the problem it plugs up to quickly. The 50 sf does the same job it just takes longer. For example recently I had some minerals in the water after a fill, the Arctic dealer said the 900 sf filter would take out the extra minerals. However the 50 sf foot ones did as well and...it just took a little longer. I have been running the same two filters for just over three years, no problems as long as you keep them clean, and you avoid chucking the $33.00 plus to get a new one every three months from the dealer. The dealers like to push lots of stuff, but your really don't need most of it. I recently switched to the bleach method, and my water has never been better nor clearer. Check out Nitro's approach to water if your interested. Hope that helps. Cocoabailey

This depends on your goals. If you are concerned with person-to-person transmission of pathogens, then you would make sure the FC is high enough before the soak to handle the bather load so that you still measure some residual FC after the soak. However, the downside is that you will likely notice the bleach and probably smell some chlorine or monochloramine during the soak. The other alternative is to add the bleach after the soak making sure it's enough so that the next time you soak you measure a small residual FC just before the soak -- around 1 ppm FC (most people don't notice that level of chlorine). The downside is that bacteria won't get killed during most of your soak since the FC will have gone to zero combining with the ammonia from your sweat to form monochloramine. You addition of bleach right after your soak is likely to kill anything you introduced during your soak since it takes 15-60 minutes for bacteria to double in population and also takes a while for them to form thick enough biofilms that chlorine can't attack easily. So adding bleach after the soak is probably pretty reasonable depending on whom you invite over to soak with you. Richard Great, that is the way I have been thinking about it. Big loads (ie party) you'll want to up the does first, but if it is just me or my spouse and I, the shock can wait till after the soak. Thanks again for the info. It is truly amazing what you can learn on line, with the investment of some time! T

Hi Richard, Thanks for the reply. I couldn't agree more! I think the only difference is you end spending more money on chemicals, raising the TDS even higher, and making it necessary to switch water more ofter....hence spending more money on start up chemicals, it is a vicious cycle! I think I'll try the pool calculator recommendation of borates to add for my tub size and see how it works out with my ph stable brand. I ordered my TF100 kit today. It should be here soon! I am excited! (for those reading this thinking get a life...I truly find this subject fascinating!) This is much more interesting than just using a floater and bromine! One last quick question, when adding bleach, does it matter if it is before or after a soak? Thanks, and have a great weekend! T

Hope everyone is having a great weekend. I was soaking in the tub last night and was thinking about how good the borates make the water feel. The pool calculator uses borax to raise the water to the desired level (around 50 ppm, which equates to around 600 g of borax, then you have to add acid) to bring the PH back down. This is a one time shot per fill. With the stuff you get at any spa depot, they are generally PH balanced so you don't have to worry about PH. However, they generally have to be added weekly after an initial dose (150g/1000l, then 40g/1000l after that per week). Does anyone know why this is? Couldn't you just add them all at once like the borax and not worry about it? The end result is about the same amount of actual product being added over time (approx 600g using my own 1500l tub as an example). Perhaps this is how manufacturers control Ph spike, by adding it over time. Can anyone offer a more educated guess than my own? It was interesting to note when I spoke with a local spa dealer today, they didn't even think borates help provide a Ph buffer! Anyway any insight would be much appreciated as always. Thanks, T

Richard and Nitro, Thanks for the feed back. I was thinking that might be the case, but it makes me feel better hearing it from the pros! My Ph is doing exactly as you stated Richard. Yesterday was my last day for dichlor, I'll keep you posted and let you know how the switch to bleach goes. No borates until I get the PH up there a bit. I'll definetely follow your advice. I'll post the results. Thanks again! T

First and foremost I would like to thank everyone one the site who helps us newbies get our water issues sorted out. I have found this site to be the greatest asset I have found on the net to date, when i comes to pool/spa water management. Here is my current dilemma, after hours and hours of reading post, I can't seem to find the answer to my current issue. I am in the process of switching over to Nitro's/Chem Geek's bleach method, however I can't seem to get my PH to go above 7.0. My TA is stable at 70, CH is 160, TDS 316 but PH is only 7.0. I have aerated with all three pumps running and air on, but PH just doesn't want to go up. I have even added PH plus, but I am a little leary here as this defeats the purpose of lowering the TA in the first place. My original well water was at a TA of 140 so it has come down nicely, I just can't get this aeration thing to work. Once I start to add bleach (tomorrow) will my PH be more likely to climb from aeration? With regard to borate, I haven't added any yet but I am planning on adding a commercial PH Neutral Brand; am I right in thinking I shouldn't add any until I get the PH up a bit higher as this will lock in the PH. If the Ph is more susceptible to aeration after the addition of bleach I should add them after I get the desired PH. Is this thought process correct? Would an ozonator prevent the PH from going up from aeration? Is there times when you just can't get aeration to work? Has anyone had similar experiences? Am I missing something here?! I am really baffled here, and would love to sort this one out. Any insight anyone can provide would be great! Thanks, T

Too bad, because a water softener would remove the Iron in the water. At this point, the only thing I can recommend is to try the methods you mentioned (i.e. metal removers, filter etc.). Although, I would try to raise your pH a little to 7.4-7.6 via aeration. 7.2 is still a little low. I'll do that. I went and got my numbers checked a the place today. 70 TA and 7.2 PH. Is 70 too high for the bleach method? I am going to try another metal remover and see what happens. Next time I'll just use two bottles of eliminate 1 prior to adding the chemicals in. I noticed there are a few little deposits of undesolved chemicals on the floor/seats of the spa. Any idea what this may be? It kind of looks like baking soda. Or maybe it is dichlor as I read it takes a while for the stabilizer to fully dissolve. Any thoughts? Thanks once again for the help Nitro!

That is correct, I do not have a water softener. T

Hi Nitro, PH seems stable at around 7.2, TA 60. Water is still discolored. I don't use a water softner. From all the post I have been reading, it seems there might be a reaction between the product I added to help reduce mineral issues and the addition of chlorine. Not sure. My filter is picking up some brownish stuff, iron I am guessing. This would kind of make sense with the one spa gent I spoke with (putting in the finer filter would remove the iron, kind of like a sand filter system removes the iron in a pool...so I've read). I really don't want to empty the water though, it seems like a total waste as I just put it in and haven't even been in the tub yet. What do you think? Can I still add my two daily tsp of dichlor or will this make the problem worse? Can I add more Iron (metal) remover to the mix or is it too late because the dichlor has already been in? So frustrating because the water was crystal clear when I put it in. Thanks for your input. T

Hey All, I am new to the forum recently and to the bleach method. As some of you probably read in my last post I was a little confused with the whole process.....to say the least. But with the help of pros like chem geek and nitro we worked through it. New problem now however. My water is brown, supposedly from the iron in the water (filled from well and used the pre filter) I added some mineral conditioner at the start (best defense from arctic) to help coat the mineral to protect the equipment or atleast this is what I was told. After talking to a few local dealers here were their suggestions: Drain tub, start over but use a ppruduct like illiminate 1 first, Replace current filter with one of the disposable ones that are finer this will suposedly remove the brown. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Is this information accurate? What do you think is the best way ahead? Thanks in advance for your input. T

15 tsp (5 TBS) is the TOTAL (including shocks) amount of Dichlor you add. That's about 28ppm FC, which is 25 CYA. You can take a water sample in to get it tested to make sure. Go by the AMOUNT of Dichlor you add, not the time. The time to get to ~25 CYA can very depending on how much you use. For every 10ppm FC you add, you also add 9ppm CYA. Make sense? Hopefully this will get your TA to 60ppm. Once your TA is at 60ppm, your pH should be in the mid 7's from aeration. PH looked aroun 7.2 TA 55 Just added one more Tbs of bs, this should get the TA up to 60. Looked pretty close from what I can tell, but so hard to tell just off the strips, I can't wait to pick up a water kit. Can you buy them from spa dealers in the states or do they have to be mailed out as well? Thanks again for all the help Nitro!

Is this after you added the 2 TBS Baking Soda I told you to add? If not, add it now, aerate for 15 mins and check TA/pH. If so, add another 2 TBS Baking Soda, aerate 15min and check again. I don't know why you're TA is not rising. You should be up by 60ppm by now. Now you know why you need a good drop test kit. Keep track of how much Dichlor you add. After you add a TOTAL of 15 tsp of Dichlor you can switch to bleach. I agree Nitro, I definitelly need a good test kit, and I do plan on getting one. From what I have read here on this forum they seem hard to get here in Canada. I am going South in a week so I was going to try and pick one up when I am down there. From the post I read it seemed I could just get away with adding the dichlor for the predetermined amount of time, then switch to bleach once I had a complete water test done to confirm everything was where it should be....you got to love it when a plan comes togeather At least I am learning all kinds of new information and I do enjoy that! So the 15 tsp of dichlor includes shocks and all? Should I still be trying to maintain a constant FC of 4-5 ppm during this time? I have added another 2Tbs, will post how it works out in 20. Thanks again for the help Nitro, it is appreciated!

This is difficult, because the TA test is not accurate. The good news is, this only needs to be done after you refill. Let's go with TWO tablespoons Baking Soda this time. Aerate another 20 min, and post TA/pH. To be totally accurate, I just looked up my spa capacity in my book and it is actually 390 gal, sorry about that one. 7PH 50 TA So far I have added a total of 7 tsp of dichlor, 2 initially which dissapated in a few hours after adding it in, then after some more reading and probably confusion on my part I add 5 more tsp to shock, but that is it so far. T

No, add ONE Tablespoon of Baking Soda for now. We don't want to overshoot it. How many gal is your tub again? Keep aerating for another 20 min, then check TA/pH. Post them here. Looks like I am at around 7 for ph and 45-50 for TA, tub is 400 gal, water is still brown/green tinge? Nobody said learning something new is always easy. Thanks again for the help! T

400 gals