Sundance Hartford V Hotsprings Sovereign

[robmj]

Hi all, doing some research to buy, have narrowed down to these models, NZ based FYI

Some questions,

1. Firstly is this a valid comparison, from my research it seems to be or perhaps Sundance Hawthorne v Sovereign

2. I like the look of the Hotsprings jet systems (particularly the Moto Massage), can anyone comment if the Sundance jets are just as good?

3. Sundance model has a lot more jets (different types of course), any comments on the 42 (Sundance) v 23 (Hotsprings)

4. Would appreciate any general comments from owners of these models

Thanks

Robert

[aduvall]

Hi all, doing some research to buy, have narrowed down to these models, NZ based FYI

Some questions,

1. Firstly is this a valid comparison, from my research it seems to be or perhaps Sundance Hawthorne v Sovereign

2. I like the look of the Hotsprings jet systems (particularly the Moto Massage), can anyone comment if the Sundance jets are just as good?

3. Sundance model has a lot more jets (different types of course), any comments on the 42 (Sundance) v 23 (Hotsprings)

4. Would appreciate any general comments from owners of these models

Thanks

Robert

Robert,

We have the Soverign II (2008) and we love it.

Pros on the Soverign:

The water debth is just enough to come to our shoulders (we are 5'8 and 6 foot).

The cool down seat is great! We find this seat is very useful.

The lounger is great. The moto massager is different from anything that we have ever felt. It swoops up and down your back with either little or full fource. - Depends on the way you set the control.

The seat id deep enough that you submerge completly and feels great!

We were worried that 104* was not Hot enough. We find it to be plenty hot. I don't think we would be able to with stand 104* and I love HOT, HOT, HOT!!!!

We also find that the temp is about 2 degrees hotter than it reads.

For example:

The first time we set it at 104* the actual temp was 106*.

We tested this theory out again and when we set ours to 100* and its actually 101.6*, then after about 20 minutes of jets it rises to 102.3*.

At 102, it was at 104.6* within 20 minutes of the jets being on.

So now during the winter we find 100* is just right for us and we can stay in for about 1 1/12 hours.

The inside LED light is great, You have 5 colors to choose from with five dimmers on each of these colors.

As for seating. -Fits four comfortable, but five and six people would feel a little cramp. Lets hope its all close family and friends.

It runs very quiet.

Cons on soverign:

Don't know if this is really a con or not, but if your looking for a lot of bubble action, I would look for something with more jets. You should wet test to see if this will be enough for you.

Has alot of bubble action, but not a "double 007" action type tub.

No outside lighting unless you pay extra or it. For us, we were willing to pay the $199 extra for it, but then we were told that these lights stay on 24/7 and that they could only be mounted to the bottom edge if you wanted nothing showing. However, we could have done the top edge but the wiring on the control panel side would have stuck out a little. -So we choose not to go this route.

Sorry, we don't have many Con's because we absolutly love our tub.

Again, our advice to you is to wet test. This is the only way you will know 100% if its right for you.

Hope this has helped.

Also you may want to think about asking for a floor model. Same warrenty and could save some extra bucks. (in our case we saved $1000).

If you have any other questions, please feel free to contact me.

Good luck with your decision!

Angie

[JerimiahR]

Hi all, doing some research to buy, have narrowed down to these models, NZ based FYI

Some questions,

1. Firstly is this a valid comparison, from my research it seems to be or perhaps Sundance Hawthorne v Sovereign

2. I like the look of the Hotsprings jet systems (particularly the Moto Massage), can anyone comment if the Sundance jets are just as good?

3. Sundance model has a lot more jets (different types of course), any comments on the 42 (Sundance) v 23 (Hotsprings)

4. Would appreciate any general comments from owners of these models

Thanks

Robert

Rob, I would honestly pick the Sovereign. Part of that is because I work with the Hot Spring brand personally, and know the product very well. The Hot Spring manufacturer makes an outstanding product, and I think you'll find dealer support from a Hot Spring dealer is typically better than you'd find elsewhere.

Sundance does also make a very good product though. So you can't necessarily go wrong with either one.

The Hot Spring line-up (that Sovereign) does have some advantages over the Sundance Hawthorne however. Here's a few things to consider:

Bottom Floor Drain: This is so simple, but many customers buying a second spa tell me they wish their first spa had a drain that was on the FLOOR of the spa. This allows you to drain all the water out of the spa's interior without bailing out the last few inches. It's very simple, but not all spas are the same.

Circulation Pump: Sundance now offers a "Circ Pump" option these days, but it's not quite the same. Hot Springs has been using a Circulation Pump for continuous filtration for a very long time. This allows the spa to heat continuously, as well as filter constantly, without using your large jet pump to do so. This not only saves on wear and tear (jet pump doesn't turn on/off all day/night) but uses much less energy. Most customers also tell me they chose a Hot Spring for this feature simply because you don't hear the spa turning on and off (especially if its near a master bedroom window).

Energy Use: That Hawthorne is a full 545 gallons (Hartford is 470) according to the Sundance website. Compare that with only heating 355 gallons in a current Hot Spring Sovereign model. This will ultimately save you on some heating costs. Not to mention the previously noted energy savings mentioned with regards to the circulation pump.

Cool Off Bench: As Angie noted, the Sovereign has a "cool off bench". Some folks really find these handy. Whether you simply just get to hot and need to cool off, or if you have smaller kids that can't sit in the adult seats. This elevated bench/seat can be quite handy for some folks.

Controls: Some folks like the fact that the Sovereign has both Internal and External controls. You can operate jets and lights from inside the spa, and outside. Plus, the external control panel is mounted in a way that you can see/access it with the cover closed. This is nice in cold climates like here in Montana. When it's cold and snowy outside a customer can simply look out the window to their spa, and be reassured by the little Red and Green indicator lights on the control panel.

Ozone: The Hot Spring Sovereign comes with a CD Ozone generator as well (it looks as though this is an option on the Sundance). Ozone is just fantastic for hot tubs. Without getting into to much detail, it'll reduce the amount of Chlorine you'll have to use to keep your spa clean. Plus, it breaks down Chloramines (which is what makes Chlorine smell) so the spa is much more friendly during use. The advantage to Hot Spring's setup, is that the Ozone generator is effective 24/7. Because the Sovereign circulates water 24/7, the ozone generator is also oxidizing the water 24/7. Since other spas cycle on and off, the ozone injection must also cycle on and off, therefore it isn't quite as effective.

There's just a couple things I like about the Sovereign over the two Sundance models.

We have the Soverign II (2008) and we love it.

Cons on soverign:

Don't know if this is really a con or not

Sorry, we don't have many Con's because we absolutly love our tub.

Angie

I'm glad you guys love your Sovereign Angie!! And Kudos to you for soaking for an hour and a half!!!

[fms]

Hi all, doing some research to buy, have narrowed down to these models, NZ based FYI

Some questions,

1. Firstly is this a valid comparison, from my research it seems to be or perhaps Sundance Hawthorne v Sovereign

2. I like the look of the Hotsprings jet systems (particularly the Moto Massage), can anyone comment if the Sundance jets are just as good?

3. Sundance model has a lot more jets (different types of course), any comments on the 42 (Sundance) v 23 (Hotsprings)

4. Would appreciate any general comments from owners of these models

Thanks

Robert

I am on my second tub. The first tub lasted about 15 years and had a lounge and we almost never used it. The tub we have now is a Sundance Chelsea. Both tubs were approx. the same size but the Sundance has much more room because the lounge takes up a lot of space. We decided we did not want the lounge in our new tub and I have heard alot of others state that their next tub would not have the lounge.

When we were shopping we were comparing the Hotspring Vangard with the Sundance Chelsea. They seemed to be close to the same type of design, pumps, warranty, etc. We went with the Sundance because it had the mound with the jets in the center in the floor and because it did not have jets that move. It does have jets that pulsate. I was told by the dealer that the moto jets sometimes causes problems. (He sells both brands and was not trying to sway me one way or the other. He was just answering my questions honestly.) If you check other post you will hear others talking about their moto jets sticking.

The circulation pump in the Sundance runs 24/7 and the heater is attached to this plumbing. You have 5 or 6 different setting allowing you choices as when you want the other pumps to filter and you can limit the amount of time the heater operates. The minimum is 1 hour per day broken into 2 30 minute cycles. One every 12 hours. Of course the heater does not run the entire time during the cycle. I think there is a major advantage to having two jet pumps along with the circulation pump. I think many Hotsprings models have dual pumps in addition to the circ. pump.

I really think you should wet test the tubs that you are interested in and if the Hotsprings feels great to you then I would get it and deal with the jets. I am sure it is not much to fix if they do stick.

I am not sure but the two tubs you are looking at do not seems to be very similar,(size, configuation, number of pumps, etc.). Both manufactures have a great reputatuon and are well built. You really can't go wrong with either tub.

I am sure that if you pick either you will thourghly enjoy it.

[tony]

Hi all, doing some research to buy, have narrowed down to these models, NZ based FYI

Some questions,

1. Firstly is this a valid comparison, from my research it seems to be or perhaps Sundance Hawthorne v Sovereign

2. I like the look of the Hotsprings jet systems (particularly the Moto Massage), can anyone comment if the Sundance jets are just as good?

3. Sundance model has a lot more jets (different types of course), any comments on the 42 (Sundance) v 23 (Hotsprings)

4. Would appreciate any general comments from owners of these models

Thanks

Robert

Rob, I would honestly pick the Sovereign. Part of that is because I work with the Hot Spring brand personally, and know the product very well. The Hot Spring manufacturer makes an outstanding product, and I think you'll find dealer support from a Hot Spring dealer is typically better than you'd find elsewhere.

Sundance does also make a very good product though. So you can't necessarily go wrong with either one.

The Hot Spring line-up (that Sovereign) does have some advantages over the Sundance Hawthorne however. Here's a few things to consider:

Bottom Floor Drain: This is so simple, but many customers buying a second spa tell me they wish their first spa had a drain that was on the FLOOR of the spa. This allows you to drain all the water out of the spa's interior without bailing out the last few inches. It's very simple, but not all spas are the same.

Circulation Pump: Sundance now offers a "Circ Pump" option these days, but it's not quite the same. Hot Springs has been using a Circulation Pump for continuous filtration for a very long time. This allows the spa to heat continuously, as well as filter constantly, without using your large jet pump to do so. This not only saves on wear and tear (jet pump doesn't turn on/off all day/night) but uses much less energy. Most customers also tell me they chose a Hot Spring for this feature simply because you don't hear the spa turning on and off (especially if its near a master bedroom window).

Energy Use: That Hawthorne is a full 545 gallons (Hartford is 470) according to the Sundance website. Compare that with only heating 355 gallons in a current Hot Spring Sovereign model. This will ultimately save you on some heating costs. Not to mention the previously noted energy savings mentioned with regards to the circulation pump.

Cool Off Bench: As Angie noted, the Sovereign has a "cool off bench". Some folks really find these handy. Whether you simply just get to hot and need to cool off, or if you have smaller kids that can't sit in the adult seats. This elevated bench/seat can be quite handy for some folks.

Controls: Some folks like the fact that the Sovereign has both Internal and External controls. You can operate jets and lights from inside the spa, and outside. Plus, the external control panel is mounted in a way that you can see/access it with the cover closed. This is nice in cold climates like here in Montana. When it's cold and snowy outside a customer can simply look out the window to their spa, and be reassured by the little Red and Green indicator lights on the control panel.

Ozone: The Hot Spring Sovereign comes with a CD Ozone generator as well (it looks as though this is an option on the Sundance). Ozone is just fantastic for hot tubs. Without getting into to much detail, it'll reduce the amount of Chlorine you'll have to use to keep your spa clean. Plus, it breaks down Chloramines (which is what makes Chlorine smell) so the spa is much more friendly during use. The advantage to Hot Spring's setup, is that the Ozone generator is effective 24/7. Because the Sovereign circulates water 24/7, the ozone generator is also oxidizing the water 24/7. Since other spas cycle on and off, the ozone injection must also cycle on and off, therefore it isn't quite as effective.

There's just a couple things I like about the Sovereign over the two Sundance models.

We have the Soverign II (2008) and we love it.

Cons on soverign:

Don't know if this is really a con or not

Sorry, we don't have many Con's because we absolutly love our tub.

Angie

I'm glad you guys love your Sovereign Angie!! And Kudos to you for soaking for an hour and a half!!!

JerimiahR, I don't disagree that the Sovereign is an excellent spa and don't necessarily disagree that it may be a better alternative than the models discussed...but your post does contain some misrepresentations.

Bottom floor drains: Sundance have had bottom floor drains for many years now.

Circulation pump: Sundance spas have had circ pumps for probably a decade now. Actually, Sundance uses almost the exact same Laing low flow circ pump that HotSprings uses except on their top end 880 series spas which now use a high flow circ pump.

Ozone: Sundance spas come ozone ready. They offer two or three different ozonator options, all CD type that do not need chip replacement. Ozone is delivered by the circ pump that is not an option and does so 24/7.

Jets: Sundance makes arguably the best jets in the industry. Their jets are bearing free, deliver great therapy and have a near zero failure rate. They do not make a traveling jet such as the Moto Massage.

Though I own a little older Sundance spa, my next choice would have been a HotSprings. My dealer sells both, so I have been able to see the two side by side through the years.

[david1pro]

I have a hot springs Envoy which is similar to the Sovereign. Mine is a 2008 model installed in early November. I do love the Hot Springs, and I did wet test the Sovereign. I didn't like the sitting moto massage nearly as much as I liked it in the lounger. Something to consider if you haven't wet tested a Envoy.

Whatever you get, do get a 24/7 circulation pump and ozonator. You will appreciate never hearing your hot tub unless you are in it.

Someone mentioned that the Sundance has the best Jets in the industry. I must say that this may be true. While I love my Hot Springs jets, I must admit that some of them tend to "pop out" requiring you to turn off the pumps to be able to push them back in. Also, the ones that are supposed to spin don't always do so, even at the highest pressure (pump at full power and diverter valve completely turned to the jet in question). Many of mine tend to spray in one direction for a second, then flip, then spray for another second in the new direction. This does NOT give the pulsating feel Hot Springs advertises.

If you like bubbles, then be warned that many of the hot springs jets that you turn at the face plate never bubble, at any setting or pump speed. They are supposed to bubble when you turn the jet's face plate, but they simply never do. The smaller jets clusters which are controlled by the single separate air diverter knob on the top of the tub all work appropriately and you can turn the air on or off.

Whatever you do - WET TEST. Some tubs with 50some jets are not nearly as comfortable wet as tubs with a mere 20 jets. And don't be fooled - what seems comfortable dry may feel completely different wet. For me, some loungers threw me out of the seat. Others held me just fine (Envoy). Wet test wet test wet test.

[rentit]

david1pro, that is very interesting about the spinning jets not spinning and the jets not bubbling. Has yours been that way from day one?

My HS has never had those issues. The spinning jets always spins (even at lowest pressure) and there are multitudes of bubbling at all jets.

[david1pro]

It's been that way since day one. To clarify, the seats that have both the small jets in a group (air controlled by a valve at the top) and larger jets as well - on those seats, the larger jets with the faceplate you turn do not bubble. Two seats have small assortments of large jets that turn at the faceplate - those do mix in the air appropriately. So the non-bubbly seats are actually half non-bubbly (the faceplate half)

The biggest spin violator is the spinner in the left armrest on the only seat with armrest jets. That's annoying, as it doesn't feel at all like it's supposed to.