Onzen Summary

[Dust]

Well its sad that we lost so many good posts on Onzen, with great feedback from so many people.

I figured I'd recap what we learned, for others if they come along with similar questions.

Note: This is specifically for Onzen - a chlorine / bromine generator with supplemental Ozone sold by Arctic Spas.

1) Biggest thing we found is that by default, your tub may ship with incorrect settings. Under your advanced menu (the same place you set your CP level) set CC, and CF to 0 (these come before CP on my menu) and set FC to 1 (this comes after CP, and this is the last item on my menu). Our understanding is that these settings prevent Onzen from shutting down when the pumps shut down from over-temping (which they do often in an Arctic (by intended design), due to the way Arctic captures pump heat, instead of wasting it)

2) Salt levels need to be at 2000ppm for Onzen to work. Below 2000ppm, they simply do not work. 2500ppm to 3000ppm is better. Over 3000ppm is wasteful and will cause your system to make to much sanitizer (which could cause damage over time to some of your tubs parts). Your tub of Onzen salt has some minimum and maximum guidelines. Stick to the minimums as we know those guidelines are slightly high. You can buy a 10 pack of salt test strips from your Arctic dealer to test your salt levels if you wish.

3) After initial fill, set your FD, FF (basic filter settings) and CP (sanitizer production level in the advanced menu) to 2. Give your tub a day, and you should have measurable sanitizer.

4) (this item is probably more applicable for chlorine based units) Use MPS (for arctic, this is called refresh) to help prevent your free chlorine from becoming chlorimines after use. Unlike regular chlorine tubs, we are not adding a bunch of new chlorine after each use, which means we do not have a fresh source of free chlorine to burn up a bunch of baddies after use, or to help free our chlorine from existing chloramines in the water. Instead, we add chlorine slowly to our water through the generator, and have ozone to help oxidize our chlorimines back into free chlorine and burn off some of the baddies in the water.

MPS (refresh) is a strong oxidizer that will do both jobs for us very well (kill high levels of baddies, as well help deal with chlorimines). Add a little (I use 1/4 to 1/2 cap in my summit) after each use. and a couple cap fulls at the end of each week. If your water STINKS like chlorine, then you probably aren't using enough MPS and have a chlorimne buildup.

5) with the jets on, scrape out any foam or grease you can. you can also try a rescue filter (from your dealer). Its a disposable 1 use filter that picks oils and greases up very well. Only spend 10 minutes or so skimming foam... you're just trying to help... don't get frustrated with skimming

6) In advance of heavy user load, (lets say earlier that day) turn your CP up a bit to ensure you have enough free chlorine to maintain some sort of residual during and after heavy bather load

6.1) If you DO let your free chlorine drop to 0, you may be in for a little pain. This means the baddies in your tub are winning, and your tub has a bit of a fight ahead of it to get back to clear. In this state, you may notice

- slimy buildup

- bad chemical stink

- murky water

- particulate floaties

To counteract these things, try the following (reverting any and all changes back to normal after your water is again crystal clear)

- turn your CP setting up very high, probably even max

- turn your filter FD and FF settings up (your Ozone is only truly effective with the water moving, so higher filter setting should help. Be aware that ozone, while it is a good thing to have, has a side effect of dissipating chlorine, so your CP needs to be set high as well (step 1)

- add some MPS (refresh). Use a "shock" level of MPS for this. For my summit, it is 4 - 5 cap fulls. Also, even though your refresh label says it is ph balanced, i've found it isn't. it will drop your ph levels in your tub, but as it turns out, thats a good thing. Chlorine (not bromine) works FAR better at a lower ph. Don't worry, if your ph does drop, it wont be low enough to hurt your tub, and all of that chlorine you are making with onzen will cause the the ph to rise up in no time at all.

It may take a day or even two to get back from this gross state you let your tub get into. Your best defense is to NOT let your tub get to no sanitizer. Make sure you enter your tub clean. If you find you often cause your tub to drop to 0 free chlorine, your probably need to set your CP setting higher in general.

As a final note, I'm no expert on any of this. This is a mix of collected info from people here, and empirical observation from my own tub, and my understanding of how things SHOULD work. Any and all additions and correction are not only welcome, but probably strongly needed

[Dust]

oh, i should add two things

1) your leave your onzen dial (under the tub) alone However, if your absolutely sure it needs to be fiddled with, there is only one thing you need to do; turn it all the way up. Make sure that the Onzen dial is all the way up (which, counter intuitively, is most likely accomplished by turning it COUNTER CLOCKWISE). Many tubs (like those in Canada) don't even have a dial on their onzen. Don't worry, your onzen is already turned all the way up.

2) using as much MPS as i described above is not needed once you get into a routine with your tub. (i think this is especially true for those of you in the states that have silver ion generation on your onzen). Onzen is capable of keeping water completely clean on its own without MPS, but if you present too much peak load to often (or if you have your CP levels or salt levels not matched to how you use your tub), the MPS will help you correct for these mistakes. This mini guide or for people with trouble spas, and the MPS will help a lot.

3) be careful when shocking with chlorine based shock. chlorine based shock will add a chlorine buffer, cyanuric acid, to the water. I'm not 100% sure what cyanuric levels are expected in onzen, but cyanuric acid does not leave a tub over time, and lessens the effectiveness long term of your free chlorine. I plan on doing more investigation with exactly how Onzen expects your tub to be loaded with cyanuric acid... but just be warned that there is a long term effect of adding chlorine shock (called boost from your arctic dealer) as opposed to non chlorine (mps, or refresh, from your arctic dealer).

[Tom]

oh, i should add two things

Thanks, Dust. I appreciate your help and contribution. I still have your original summary and will combine it with your comments here when I get a chance (I wouldn't even be here this morning except for a cancelled meeting).

To all our customers: My apologies for any inconvenience you are experiencing and my thanks for your patience. Working on a rewrite of the Onzen manual for my own use (and to share with customers) until we get a new version printed but it won't be ready for at least a week.

[larrys1]

Tom, looking forward to a new rev to the Onzen manual!

Dust, thanks for the info. I printed it out and am going to check my settings tonight when I get home.

[H2obugs]

How long for the revision, Tom? We have consistant levels of 750 on the Orp meter and aren't sure how to turn this down. Dust, very good help we will give this a go and see what we get for readings. Thanks in advance, Bugs.

[Dust]

How long for the revision, Tom? We have consistant levels of 750 on the Orp meter and aren't sure how to turn this down. Dust, very good help we will give this a go and see what we get for readings. Thanks in advance, Bugs.

750 ORP is fine.... my guess is your free chlorine is going to be highish, or your ph is lowish (remember that orp accurately reflects chlorine's property of increased effectiveness at lower ph).

as free chlorine becomes combined chlorine, ORP will go down. also, as chlorine leaves your pool, ORP will go down. Also, as Cynuaric acid levels increase, ORP would go down as well.

as combined chlorine is converted back to free chlorine (through salt based sanitizer generation, ozone oxidization, or chemical oxidization(shocking), ORP goes up.

If you really want to get rid of chlorine from your system, shock your tub with MPS, turn your CP to 0, and let the tub run for a couple of days. Without onzen, chlorine tub dissipates from your tub at a scary rate. Your chlorine levels (and ORP) will drop alarmingly quickly. Don't let your free chlorine drop to zero!!! You'll need to monitor closely.

As long as the water doesn't smell too bleachy for you though, just keep using it with your tub CP set to a lowish number (probably 1) and you will use more chlorine than you generate. just remeber to shock though, as forming combined chlorine is NOT the same as dissipating chlorine all together. Again, watch your levels... Don't let your free chlorine drop to zero!!!

[Tom]

Important Onzen Information

[mikeyboy]

oh, i should add two things

Thanks, Dust. I appreciate your help and contribution. I still have your original summary and will combine it with your comments here when I get a chance (I wouldn't even be here this morning except for a cancelled meeting).

To all our customers: My apologies for any inconvenience you are experiencing and my thanks for your patience. Working on a rewrite of the Onzen manual for my own use (and to share with customers) until we get a new version printed but it won't be ready for at least a week.

Hi Tom I am very new to this site. I have a Arctic Spa Yukon with Onzen. I am on my 2nd Onzen unit. It seems to be working okay now. My question is, should I be testing for Bromine or Chlorine? Also I do have a strong Chlorine smell. Should I use Refresh as Dust recomends? Final question. is it better to leave the spa at 1 temp. or keep it at 100 and turn it up before using it. Thanks in advance

[Budge]

Hi Tom I am very new to this site. I have a Arctic Spa Yukon with Onzen. I am on my 2nd Onzen unit. It seems to be working okay now. My question is, should I be testing for Bromine or Chlorine? Also I do have a strong Chlorine smell. Should I use Refresh as Dust recomends? Final question. is it better to leave the spa at 1 temp. or keep it at 100 and turn it up before using it. Thanks in advance

Mikeboy,

What tub do you own and when did you get it? I have a Summit Legend and I have a tech coming out on Monday to fix my tub. The Onzen system is not producing sanitizer, bromine in my case. We have no longer get the cloudy stream coming out of the Onzen jet in the footwell. What was wrong with your Onzen unit?

FYI I have only had my tub since July 08 and this will be my second service call! The first one was to fix the"FLO" error and replace pump 1, which would hum but not come on.

Cheers,

Budge

[Dust]

Hi Tom I am very new to this site. I have a Arctic Spa Yukon with Onzen. I am on my 2nd Onzen unit. It seems to be working okay now. My question is, should I be testing for Bromine or Chlorine? Also I do have a strong Chlorine smell. Should I use Refresh as Dust recomends? Final question. is it better to leave the spa at 1 temp. or keep it at 100 and turn it up before using it. Thanks in advance

Not sure why Tom hasn't answered you yet... he's usualy on the ball on these things Maybe he's just sick of all of the Onzen questions!

As far as testing for chlorine or bromine, which type did you get? If you don't know, from Arctice "Dead Sea Salt" will change into chlorine, while "Bromine Salt" will of course change into Bromine in your tub. If your tub smells like Chlorine, you probably have Dead Sea Salt / Chlorine in your tub... that is what Arctic prefers to sell by default if you don't ask.

And the temperature question, leaving it at the setting you like to use it at, imho, is your best move. You paid a lot for your actic spa, and one of the reasons for that is that they are, hands down, one of the best (the best as shown in several independant studies) and insulating and retaining generated heat. This means if you heat your spa to 103, your spa will retain that heat without using other energy to do so. If you heat your spa to 103 from 100 every time you use it, that is 3 degrees of heating you will need to spend from the heaters before every use. Rasing 100 gallons of water 1 degree takes 836 BTU of energy... so 400 gallons by 3 degrees is 10032 BTUs of energy. There are 3400 BTUs in 1 kWH, so you're using something like 3kWH of energy each time you want to use your tub (or in other terms, leaving a 100watt light bulb on for 30 hours before using your spa each and every time).

Well, all of that, plus it takes a while for the tub to warm up those 3 degrees, so the impatient side of me would want that tub ready when I was

Okay, onto the smell! What kind of Chlorine smell do you have? Is it "bottle of bleach" chlorine smell, or "swiming pool" chlorine smell. There is definately a difference. Essentially, if it smells like clean bleach from a bottle, then your chlorine is WAYYYYY too high (which happens with Onzen especially if you have too much salt) and you'll actually want to do a few things

If your tub smells like chlorine, like from a bottle of bleach

- Test for chlorine... most test strips only go to 10ppm, so if you're reading 10ppm, you're actually at AT LEAST 10, it could be way more Look for "burning" on the edges of the test strip's chlorine pad... if the (presumably) blue chlorine pad turns sort of greenish / yellow / white on the edges of the pad, then your chlorine might be really high.

-Test for salt levels... it is sooo easy to put to much salt in that thing. If salt gets to high (~3000ppm) then the chemical reaction with the salt will practicaly happen on its own, regardless of your CP rating. Using the old labels on the salt containers, I got my salt above 3000ppm, and even at CP0 on the onzen generator, I was still creating about 1-2 fcl per day... it was crazy!

In this situation, your ph will rise much quicker than normal, your alkalinity will want to continually drop, and your spa pillows will get eaten alive! Luckily, this is pretty easy to fix. You have two options

If Chlorine AND Salt are way too high

-Partial water change! The problem here is that your salt test kit probably only measures to about 3000ppm; and whats worse, the 2000-3000 range on the salt test strips are usualy the last 1/8th of the strip (it isn't linear) so figuring out your exact salt concentration can be tricky. Here is a little trick that might help.

If your test your salt and find a reading over 3000pm, take a half size sample of hot tub water, and then add an EXACTLY EQUAL amount of tap water to that sample. Then measure the salt on that sample Whatever reading you get on the test strip this time will now actually be HALF the actuall reading for your tub. So if, when measuring half spa water, and half tap water, you get a 2000ppm, that means your tub is actually 4000ppm!

-Your goal, imho, is to hit 2300ppm of salt, as close as possible. This makes VERY nice water soak in, and is easy for your onzen to maintain.

-When yo finish this and fix your salt concentration, if your chlorine is still far too high (it will drop as your are draining a lot of chlorine in the partial change) then follow the step below as well.

If salt is okay (2100 to 2500 ppm) but chlorine is way too high

-turn your cp to 2 or 3

-add a fun chemical called SpaBoss X-It (or equivlent) to your water. This strong chemical will instantly remove 1ppm of flc for each 3 grams of chemical you add. Add enough to wipe out all of your chlorine.

-let your spa run a few days to build back its fcl levels. after 2 days, adjust CP to where you need it. 2-3 is usualy good for most people under regular user load, but your milage will vary.

If your tub smells like chlorin from the swimming pool, or your skin AFTER the swiming pool

Then you have to much combined chlorine... or chlorimines. Remeber, chlorine has too jobs in the water; kill bacteria, and combine with organics (like sweat) to get them out of the free flowing water. Chlorine can kill bacteria all day, but if our chlorine is busy wrestling organics, its then too busy to kill any other bacteria (and you could get algae and such... eww). Chlorimines (combined chlorine) stink at low concentrations, and they smell like "dirty chlorine"... aka the swiming pool smell.

-As mentioned above, adding arctic "refresh" (1 cap full per 100 gallons or so) will break up the chlorimines, release the organics to atmosphere, and free the chlorine to do its job (and cause it to stop stinking)

[marcus]

Hi folks

About a month ago my wife and I purchased an Arctic Fox with Onzen. For the first few days, all was well but after about 4 uses I started to get really itchy skin and excema. Our dealer said we shouldn't need to worry about using test strips unless we started to think there was a problem, so when I started getting itchy we tested the water and it showed the alkalinity was low, pH was high and the amount of chlorine was very high. The water smelt strongly of Chlorine. So we used some Adjust Down and that helped with the pH. I checked the level that the Onzen generator was set to by the dealer and it was at about 90% of max (anti-clockwise). I dropped it down to about 20% and reduced the frequency of the filter cycle (and stayed out of the tub for a while). Nothing much changed so I called our dealer who added more Adjust Down and agreed with what I'd done.

When we next used the tub, the pH was low and the chlorine was still high. When I showered afterwards, I noticed that the hair on my chest, arms and legs had changed from black to gingery blonde and as I washed it all started to fall out in clumps - I got out of the shower looking like a plucked chicken! We called the dealer again and he recommended dumping the water and starting again. The dealer suspected that the quantity of salt that his colleague put in when the tub was handed over to us might have been wrong, so he came round and carefully measured the salt that he added. He left the Onzen generator on its lowest level and set the tub to filter once every 24 hours for an hour.

Things looked fine for the first few days and the dealer called round daily to check the levels - the chlorine level was initially very low so I upped the Onzen from minimum to about 10%. Over the next couple of days the level went through ideal to very high. Today, suspecting the salt quantity added the second time by the dealer might still have been too high I dumped about 20% of the water and topped it back up. Now, the Chlorine is still somewhere between 5 and 10 ppm on the test strip (difficult to be exact) / 865mV on the electronic gadget supplied in the starter kit.

What are we doing wrong - how come the amount of Chlorine can get so high with the Onzen generating at its minimum level? What should we do to get the Chlorine level down when this happens - surely draining and refilling is not an option especially with the cost of the salt? And what levels are outside of the safe range - when should we not use the tub for safety reasons - losing all my body hair was not good!

I note the advice about testing the salt level with strips - I've just ordered some - seems like something that should be included in the Arctic Onzen starter pack?

Thanks in advance for advice!

New tub owner, UK

[whodyawant]

Holy moly, Marcus! Your post scared me! Perhaps your post should not be in the Onzen section, but start a post of your own. I'm not familiar with the Onzen system, but it doesn't sound like that is your problem. Perhaps you should call a different dealer. You should also read up in your manual or online about balancing your water, etc. And when you said the dealer told you to not worry about using your test strips until you think there's a problem?? That's preposterous. By all means, test your water very frequently when you are a newbie!

P.S. I would drain it and start again. When hair falls out... uh, you have a problem. Cost to refill? or health insurance/medical bills? Hmm... I'd go with a refill!

Tom?

[andy_uk]

I wish I had the same problem as you :S I bought my arctic glacier the other day (UK model) with Onzen salt system dealer set it up put in around 3kg of salt and said it would produce some chlorine from the salt in around 12 hours

It hasn't

I adjusted the little dial to full (counter clockwise) and left it filtering for it a further 24 hours (UK model so onzen is fixed to filter cycle) and still have no measurable sanatiser

Is there anything else i can do ??

How long does it normally take to get a decent amount of sanatiser?

[quarry]

I am still a newbie here but I have seen in many of the replies above that salt levels should ideally be 2000+, however I have a Arctic frontier (8 months old and still learning). Original onzen system electrodes replaced as not working due to some sort of substance gunking them up (looked like insulation foam to me) any way the other day the chlorine level was low and there was a slimy feel to the inside of the tub and a pong from the water. I have turned the onzen up to max now and it seemed to be getting better very slowly, however heavy use over the week end has turned the water cloudy and smelly is there anyway to recover it? One of my main concerns is the salt levels, the piece of equipment given to me in my starter pack for measuring salt levels shoots up to 1000 straight away and that is the limit, i cannot monitor past this level with it. Is the item any use to me except to monitor low levels? And will (with the guidence of my dealer) moving the Onzen plug to the continually on socket sort out the chlorine levels? PH and alk are ok. am I doing something wrong, i use 2.5 kg of salt on new tub of water. How do you know if complete water change is required is this the sign?(water been in 2 1/2 months) any help gratefully received. I have a UK system which I believe doesn't have the advanced sub menus that the US version has.