New Fiberglass Pool Off Level

[con12340]

Hi,

We just had a Waterworld fiberglass pool installed. The contractor told us numerous times how lucky we were with our pool being "bang on" as far as level. Installation started about 2 weeks ago and water had been sitting about 3/4 full for all this time. The concrete deck was poured all around and now the contractor is ready to hook up all the plumbing. He told us to fill the pool half way up the skimmer. Once I did this I noticed that from the shallow end to the deep end the pool is off level. I took my measuring tape and measured. The water level is closer to the top of the pool by 2 inches on the shallow end compared to the deep end. My question is how concerned should I be about this, apart from the esthetics? Will this cause other problems with the pool? Will my pool warranty be void (we plan on calling Waterworld Monday to ask them)? Any input is appreaciated. Thank you.

[don pool]

2 inches out of level would not meet most fiberglass pool installers standards. I can't say that I would be too concerned about the the pool cracking unless the pool started out level, and over the course of the construction, the weight of the water in the pool has caused it to sink. Before you give anyone any more money, make sure your concerns are addressed by both the contractor and Waterworld.

[con12340]

2 inches out of level would not meet most fiberglass pool installers standards. I can't say that I would be too concerned about the the pool cracking unless the pool started out level, and over the course of the construction, the weight of the water in the pool has caused it to sink. Before you give anyone any more money, make sure your concerns are addressed by both the contractor and Waterworld.

Thank you don pool,

Unfortunately, as with some other people we read about, we had to pay full price for the pool when it was dropped in and we have no more leverage with the pool contractor. He will be coming by in the next couple of days to connect all the equipment and I just want to be as informed as I possibly can before I have that discussion with him. From my experience so far with him I suspect he will tell me it's nothing to worry about or, if the discussion gets more heated, he will try to blame the concrete contractor (the only other contractor on the job) for the mistake. In the meantime we will call Waterworld on Monday to find out about the warranty.

In the worst case scenario, if the warranty is void, what should I do now that the concrete around the pool, along with a large patio, is finished? Should I ask him to dig it all out and level the pool? I am absolutely sick to my stomach over this, as we have paid so much money and don't have anymore to fix this ourselves (which I suspect would take between $10 - $20K). Thank you for all your suggestions.

[don pool]

If you have already given him all your money, let him finish everything else that needs to be done first and then take issue with the level of the pool. You are right in the assumption that the only way to re-level the pool would be to remove the concrete decking, do you really want to go that far? Make sure that your warranty won't be voided (it shouldn't be). The pool could be tiled in such a way that the 2 inch difference in the pool level won't be so obvious. It would give you something extra (the tile) and allow the contractor a less expensive way to make you happy.

[con12340]

If you have already given him all your money, let him finish everything else that needs to be done first and then take issue with the level of the pool. You are right in the assumption that the only way to re-level the pool would be to remove the concrete decking, do you really want to go that far? Make sure that your warranty won't be voided (it shouldn't be). The pool could be tiled in such a way that the 2 inch difference in the pool level won't be so obvious. It would give you something extra (the tile) and allow the contractor a less expensive way to make you happy.

I would certainly like for this to be over and if he can hide it somehow with tile or something else (there is a white coping around the top of the pool which was put there for the concrete which I was thinking could be extended down another 4 inches or so) I could live with it. But, like you said, if the pool started out level and moved during construction, I am worried that it will move again at some point and if that happens who knows what damage could happen to the pool, aside from the obvious fact that the concrete deck would likely crack. Or, do you think my fears are unfounded because the weight of the water would prevent any further movement (like I said before, the pool was about 3/4 full since before the concrete deck was poured around it and it is now full to the half-way mark on the skimmer)?

[don pool]

If you have a wide, white strip around the outside of the pool lip, it sounds like you have a "Vastec" type of coping that stays there to give you a finished edge on the concrete. It will not be possible to lower that strip down at this point in the game. Waterline tile is your best option. The reputation of Waterworld pools has improved a great deal in the last few years, I believe they will stand behind their product.

[con12340]

If you have a wide, white strip around the outside of the pool lip, it sounds like you have a "Vastec" type of coping that stays there to give you a finished edge on the concrete. It will not be possible to lower that strip down at this point in the game. Waterline tile is your best option. The reputation of Waterworld pools has improved a great deal in the last few years, I believe they will stand behind their product.

Thank you don pool, you are right about the white strip, it remains on the edge of the pool. I was thinking of gluing another strip, just as wide, below the existing one, if that were possible.

We've spoken to Waterworld today and they told us that the warranty is not void. The next step is to get this in writing. They were really upset about the install and they said they would contact the contractor themselves. They said he should rip it out and fix it at his cost. I don't think, however, that the pool contractor will go for that.

We are livid over this as we know the pool contractor didn't follow proper procedure for installing the pool. He only backfilled the deep end and part of the right side of the pool before running out of gravel. This was a Friday and he couldn't get any more gravel until Monday. All this time the pool had only 1 foot of water on the bottom and on the Sunday we had torential rain all day. I believe the gravel on the deep end side pushed the whole pool toward the shallow end making it tip down at that end and subsequently the contractor did not bother to re-check the level on Monday when he finished backfilling. All throughout I voiced my concerns regarding the backfilling process without water in the pool, being concerned that the walls would cave in. He repeatedly told me that this is the strongest pool in the industry and they do this all the time without any problems.

We'll see what he says tomorrow when he is supposed to connect the equipment. All in all I feel like having made the biggest mistake of my life with this pool...

[don pool]

It's always easy for someone on the outside looking in to make a judgement, so I won't. I have been installing fiberglass pools for 25 years and all these installers try to install a pool in a day or two instead of taking the time to do things right. I would guess that the rain caused the pool to float up on the shallow end, and as you suggested, he didin't bother to re-check the level of the pool before he continued with the backfill. I constantly check level with a laser during the whole process. Once again, I believe that Waterworld will help straighten things out with your builder.

[con12340]

I work for VASTEC USA. After reading your posts, it sounds like your installer may have used our coping on your pool (the white strip around the top). Visit our website www.vastec-usa.com and see if it looks like your coping. I don't know if there is anything we can do to help but we are willing to try. If you would like to discuss your situation with us, call 888-282-7832 or email info@vastec-usa.com.

Our coping was designed with shimming capability...a feature that allows the installer to compensate for out-of-level pools. Makes me wonder what has happened in this situation.

copinghelp, I really appreciate your post. I've checked out your website and I am positive that's what's been used on my pool. I don't really understand what the "shimming capabilities" of your coping are, but I believe the fact that my pool is 21/8" off level combined with the fact that the concrete has already been poured around the pool (along with a very large patio) make this situation unworkable. One solution I had in mind was that a band of white material similar to your coping could be glued right under the existing coping all along the walls of the pool so that you wouldn't be able to see the difference in the water level from the blue of the pool walls to the coping. I will try to post pictures of my pool, but suffice to say in the shallow end you can see the blue of the pool walls for about 2 inches to your coping and in the deep end it's about 4 inches. Now I noticed all the protrusions on the back of your coping to attach to the pool top, so that won't work. It will have to be a piece of material that looks the same from the front but with a flat back so that it can be glued right on the pool wall under the existing coping. I will definitely call the number you gave tomorrow to discuss more details with you. I will also take pictures and post here so everyone can see exactly what I'm talking about. Thanks again for all your help.

[con12340]

It's always easy for someone on the outside looking in to make a judgement, so I won't. I have been installing fiberglass pools for 25 years and all these installers try to install a pool in a day or two instead of taking the time to do things right. I would guess that the rain caused the pool to float up on the shallow end, and as you suggested, he didin't bother to re-check the level of the pool before he continued with the backfill. I constantly check level with a laser during the whole process. Once again, I believe that Waterworld will help straighten things out with your builder.

Thank you don pool, I will take pictures and figure out how to post them here so that you can see exactly what I'm talking about. I will definitely follow up with Waterworld, but as they are not the installer, I don't hold much hope...

[copinghelp]

I wonder if this would work...

BendyForm

Just a thought.

[don pool]

You shouldn't have to glue a piece of plastic on to your brand new pool to make it look right. Call Bob Ault at Flex Tile 352 746-7460. He developed all the materials and methods for installing tile on fiberglass swimming pools. He will point you in the right direction if you want to make your pool look level without tearing out the concrete.

[William H Bonnie]

After reading all is this I will say That I have bought Three pools from Water World. my first through a dealer in late 90's and from then to now, I have had ever issue resolved by Water World and/or they help me get it resolved. So rest ashure your in good hands. I ask this " Con12340" , who was your contractor, you had no problem naming Water World. Who is the actual compant that messed up?

[jonneydemon]

I guess my first question is where did this contractor come from? Were they referred by Waterworld, or did you find them on your own? Waterworld does advertise installs on there website. Waterworld may have some resposability if they recommended the contractor. In any event, the time to have make any corrections, adjustments ect. was prior to the concrete deck going in. Does the installer have any insurance? Personally, I would ask that the pool be removed and reset to industry standards. 2 inchs is way too much to live with.

Good luck.

[con12340]

Just as I suspected, the whole blame is being laid on the concrete contractor for compacting "too hard" on the shallow end side. Completely absurd in my opinion. After more measurements it is clear the pool tilted toward the shallow end and toward the left side (when looking from the deep end) due to it sitting for three days with gravel backfill only on the deep end and the right side and with only about a foot of water in the deep end.

The more I think about it the more I agree with jonneydemon above, the pool should be taken out and re-leveled, especially if the warranty will not be honoured in case of a crack. We'll see how things progress with all sides involved.

[con12340]

I guess my first question is where did this contractor come from? Were they referred by Waterworld, or did you find them on your own? Waterworld does advertise installs on there website. Waterworld may have some resposability if they recommended the contractor. In any event, the time to have make any corrections, adjustments ect. was prior to the concrete deck going in. Does the installer have any insurance? Personally, I would ask that the pool be removed and reset to industry standards. 2 inchs is way too much to live with.

Good luck.

Thank you jonneydemon, could you please point me to where I can find the industry standards for pool installations of this type?

[jonneydemon]

The APSP has a manual for pool standards. I have read the standard and seem to remember it to be 1/2 inch. In any case it is no more than 1 inch. The standard varies for pools with tile and without tile. Google APSP and you should be able to get the document from there standards.

I will ask you again, where did this contractor/installer come from?

The idea that a plate compactor could have caused this is obsurd. A plate compactor could bow walls in if the pool was unfilled with any water and it was run right along the edge, but the idea that it caused the pool to come out of level by 2 in. is insane.

[jonneydemon]

Just trying to offer solutions here...

As suggested by don pool, you can add waterline tile to a pool with VASTEC USA coping. Right now it's the space between the waterline and the bottom of the coping that you are seeing. Tile would help to soften or blur the waterline and reduce the visual impact of the waterline vs. the coping line.

Here's a blue pool with dark blue tile and white coping:

Here are some other colors and types of tile with coping:

Fiberglass Pool Coping With Waterline Tile

Hope that helps.

I might agree with copinghelp, if the concrete had not already been poured. Even if the concrete had not been poured, the Vastic edge is only going to be adjusted or shimmed by so much. Remember this persons pool is off by 2 inchs. It is pretty tough to hide that.

[con12340]

The APSP has a manual for pool standards. I have read the standard and seem to remember it to be 1/2 inch. In any case it is no more than 1 inch. The standard varies for pools with tile and without tile. Google APSP and you should be able to get the document from there standards.

I will ask you again, where did this contractor/installer come from?

The idea that a plate compactor could have caused this is obsurd. A plate compactor could bow walls in if the pool was unfilled with any water and it was run right along the edge, but the idea that it caused the pool to come out of level by 2 in. is insane.

The contractor is an authorized Waterworld contractor and he installs a lot of Waterworld pools in this area. We called Waterworld and they know him very well. I don't want to name the contractor yet because we are still negotiating and we still hope that he will come through on his promises and make us happy. As I'm sure most people would do, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend a contractor who admits to making a mistake and fixes it accordingly. I appreciate all the people telling me that Waterworld will help but I can tell you that after the first conversation with them when they said they would honor the warranty, when we subsequently asked for this in writing they changed their tune.

I completely agree with you jonneydemon as far as the compator. Especially since the concrete contractor didn't even use a machine around the pool, but a hand compactor. On top of it all, the pool contractor's foreman was on site the whole time that the concrete guys were doing this. He even told us at the end of the day what a great job the concrete guys did around the pool.

It is plain common sense that when you backfill only two sides of an empty pool with thousands of pounds of gravel and leave it for three days, add to that a day of torential rain, all that weight will push the pool in the opposite direction. And if this is not common sense to the pool contractor, then I guess I'll have to hire a civil engineer to testify at the appropriate time.

In any case we are giving the pool contractor one more chance to come through. As you pointed out, jonneydemon, a big contractor (or any contractor for that matter) should have insurance for these types of occurences and it's now time for him to make a claim. If we get nowhere with him then we will call Waterworld one more time, and if that doesn't get us anywhere, well, then we'll have to look at other avenues...

I wish I could figure out how to post pictures, just so people can see how ugly it looks. If anyone can post simple directions as to how to do this I would appreciate it.

[con12340]

Being a Water World dealer I can tell you were your contractor went wrong... He didnt have Water World set, level and plumb the pool. This is why Water World a few years back started coming out and doing the installation because of contractors like the one you have.

I would agree, but this is an authorized and approved Waterworld contractor, they know him well and, apparently, he installs a lot of Waterworld pools in this area. That is why I believe Waterworld should help, just like other people posted here that they would.

[con12340]

Just trying to offer solutions here...

As suggested by don pool, you can add waterline tile to a pool with VASTEC USA coping. Right now it's the space between the waterline and the bottom of the coping that you are seeing. Tile would help to soften or blur the waterline and reduce the visual impact of the waterline vs. the coping line.

Here's a blue pool with dark blue tile and white coping:

Here are some other colors and types of tile with coping:

Fiberglass Pool Coping With Waterline Tile

Hope that helps.

copinghelp, can you please let me know how you posted this picture? I'd like to post one of my pool. I think once you see it you will come to realize that even tile will not help hide this, that's how bad it looks.

[jonneydemon]

Being a Water World dealer I can tell you were your contractor went wrong... He didnt have Water World set, level and plumb the pool. This is why Water World a few years back started coming out and doing the installation because of contractors like the one you have.

The problem here is this, Water World skirts the responability of the installation by useing subs. to do there installations. I would bet that TimeWrap, although claims to be a dealer does not recieve a W-2 from Water World, but more likely a 1099 Miss. for his services. I would still argue that Water World "held themselves out as the installer" and thus should be responsable. This is another problem with useing a company like Water World to provide a swimming pool. I would bet that the customer even obtained there own permits, again releasing Water World from any liability or protection under most states consumer protection laws.

I feel for con12340, but you got what you paid for. You tried to get good and cheap together and we all know what happens next.

The $$ you thought you saved just cost you $$$$$$$$$$ to reset the pool and make it right, not to mention the legal costs yet to come.

[don pool]

My suggestions in regards to your pool problems were meant to help you find some middle ground in regards to your contractor. The pool is not level and the blame game is starting. The decking contractor did not cause the pool to be out of level. The only way to make it right would be to remove the decking, remove the pool, re-groom the hole, and install the pool at the correct level. It's a "do over"! But, you have to look at the whole picture. Is the contractor willing to do that? Is he in the financial state to do it? Do you have the time, and does your attorney need the money to try and go to court? I was never trying to encourage you to accept a job that was not done right, I was only trying to help you find a soloution that could make you happy. Maybe Waterworld will step in and solve the problem for you.

[con12340]

Being a Water World dealer I can tell you were your contractor went wrong... He didnt have Water World set, level and plumb the pool. This is why Water World a few years back started coming out and doing the installation because of contractors like the one you have.

The problem here is this, Water World skirts the responability of the installation by useing subs. to do there installations. I would bet that TimeWrap, although claims to be a dealer does not recieve a W-2 from Water World, but more likely a 1099 Miss. for his services. I would still argue that Water World "held themselves out as the installer" and thus should be responsable. This is another problem with useing a company like Water World to provide a swimming pool. I would bet that the customer even obtained there own permits, again releasing Water World from any liability or protection under most states consumer protection laws.

I feel for con12340, but you got what you paid for. You tried to get good and cheap together and we all know what happens next.

The $$ you thought you saved just cost you $$$$$$$$$$ to reset the pool and make it right, not to mention the legal costs yet to come.

Unfortunately, jonneydemon, we didn't go cheap on this pool, we paid top dollars for it. The reason I went with this contractor was because he was pushing this pool as the best and strongest in the industry. Up here where we live, we can't get Waterworld directly to do the install, we have to go through a local contractor, and, as far as I know, this contractor is the only one installing Waterworld pools in the area. I can assure you I didn't save any dollars, we had a few other quotes for other pools, like San Juan, and they were in the same price range. What sold us was the representation of the best pool money can buy and the promises that it will be a perfect job, given that he's been doing this for many, many years, without a hitch. We called many of his references and they were all happy. Truth is accidents and mistakes happen to the best of people. Owning up to them and/or doing the honorable thing is what differentiates a good contractor, which I would have no hesitation in recommending, from a bad one.

[con12340]

My suggestions in regards to your pool problems were meant to help you find some middle ground in regards to your contractor. The pool is not level and the blame game is starting. The decking contractor did not cause the pool to be out of level. The only way to make it right would be to remove the decking, remove the pool, re-groom the hole, and install the pool at the correct level. It's a "do over"! But, you have to look at the whole picture. Is the contractor willing to do that? Is he in the financial state to do it? Do you have the time, and does your attorney need the money to try and go to court? I was never trying to encourage you to accept a job that was not done right, I was only trying to help you find a soloution that could make you happy. Maybe Waterworld will step in and solve the problem for you.

As I said before, I entertained the idea of living with it, or masking it somehow, so long as Waterworld was willing to honor the warranty. Now that they changed their mind it's pretty hard to live with something I paid tens of thousands of dollars for without a warranty. As far as this contractor being in the financial state to do the right thing, yes, I think he is, given that he told us that he installs three pools a week. He is well known in the area. Is he willing to do the right thing? That we'll have to see. Even Waterworld said the first time we called them that the contractor should reset the pool properly. Given the relationship between Waterworld and this contractor, I have to agree with jonneydemon above that Waterworld "held themselves out as the installer".