Spasguard Vs Bioguard

[Boute]

Does anyone know the difference between Bioguard and Spasguard Opimizer Plus aside from the fact that it has different container sizes and different smell?

Also is it armfull to have to much of this? How can the level of this be tested?

[Boute]

Does anyone know the difference between Bioguard and Spasguard Opimizer Plus aside from the fact that it has different container sizes and different smell?

Also is it armfull to have to much of this? How can the level of this be tested?

I sent an E-Mail requesing a MSDS over a week ago and still have not herd from them.

I know this much, Bioguard is for designed Pools and Spasguard is for Spas. Bioguard is 1/3 the price of spasguard.

This is why I am questioning if they are infact the same thing or close anought to as same product or content.

Can anyone elaborate on this.

[Pathfinder]

here is the link for the Bioguard chems as the MSDS sheet are available from the Parent company here MSDS

[Pathfinder]

Sorry, double post. Seems to be happening alot lately Perhaps some maintenance needs to be done on the slow load times?

[chem geek]

The BioGuard Optimizer Plus MSDS is shown here but I can't find one for SpaGuard Optimizer Plus. I suspect it has the same chemical: Disodium Biborate Pentahydrate which is a synonym for Sodium Tetraborate Pentahydrate (but read on). It is virtually identical to 20 Mule Team Borax you can get in your grocery store except that Borax is Sodium Tetraborate Decahydrate so has more hydrate (water chemically bound) in it so you use more by weight for the same effect. HOWEVER, I suspect that the SpaGuard product is pH balanced so is probably a combination of the above chemical along with Boric Acid to be more pH neutral. If you use Borax, you will need to add acid to compensate for the pH. The net effect is to add borates to the water. Borates (Boric Acid) is an algaecide and water "softener".

Proteam Supreme Plus is similar (the "Plus" version is pH balanced while original Proteam Supreme is not and is identical to the BioGuard Optimizer Plus product).

If you can read the ingredients on a label and the label instructions on both, then I can tell you chemical equivalents for Borax and dry acid if you want to go that route. I just don't know what borate levels they are recommending (probably around 50 ppm, but I don't know).

Richard

[Boute]

Thanks Pahfinder and chem geek. I already have downloaded the Bioguard MSDS. It's the Spasguard I am curious to see the difference as it also has a defferent scent to it.

By the way welcome back chem geek, I appriciate reading your posts (even though I only get part of it as I was never into chemistry) but now that I have a spas you kind of have to know some of it.

I wouldn't go as far as making my own potion to match there's but just the fact that I could use same at lower price is appealing and worth the shot.

I will send them another E-Mail requesting the MSDS for the spasguard.

As far as the ingredients written on the label, well there aren't any. Only the quatities to add in, precautions...

Spasguard is 200gr/1000L on initial treatment and add 40/1000 every other weeks.

Bioguard is 2KG/10,000L on initial (but into 3 dosage and 1-2 hrs appart) and that is it for the year.

[chem geek]

The 200gr/1000L and 2KG/10,000L would raise the Borates level to about 30 ppm (measured as ppm Boron) while the 40gr/1000L every other week adds an additional 6 ppm. The BioGuard product would raise the pH quite a bit so would need acid to compensate. They talk about splitting it into 3 doses, but do they say anything about adjusting the pH between doses via addition of acid?

I strongly suspect that the SpaGuard product is different than the BioGuard product in that it is probably pH balanced -- probably using a mixture of the pentaborate with boric acid to accomplish that. Otherwise, with a TA of 100 and starting pH of 7.5, the initial dose would raise the pH to 8.7 most probably leading to scaling.

If one were to use a combination of acid and the BioGuard product, then this is a bit of a pain-in-the-rear because one would need to add 16.5 grams of acid per 1000L (which lowers the pH from 7.5 to 7.1) followed by 20 grams of BioGuard product per 1000L (which raises the pH back up to 7.5 and adds 3 ppm Borates). So you'd have to repeat this 10 times to get to the initial dose level. I would consider the higher price of the SpaGuard product the price of convenience for keeping the pH stable in the spa while adding borates. By the way, if you were to use 20 Mule Team Borax, it would be 26 grams per 1000L with the same 16.5 grams of acid per 1000L. This is because Borax has more water in it (it's a decahydrate compared to the BioGuard pentahydrate) so it takes more weight for the same amount of borate.

Richard

[Boute]

Well Richard, not that I doupted you but you were write.

Spaquard Optimizer PLus is in fact Boric Acide at 92-98% wt.

PHYSICAL AND CHEMICAL PROPERTIES

PHYSICAL STATE: Solid

ODOR: Rose Fragrance

APPEARANCE: Granules / powder

COLOR: White

pH: 5.1(1% solution @ 20oC)

VAPOR PRESSURE: Negligible @ 20C

VAPOR DENSITY: Not Established

BOILING POINT: Not Applicable

MELTING POINT: 170.9°C (340°F)

SOLUBILITY IN WATER: 4.7% @ 20C

SPECIFIC GRAVITY: 1.0 g/cc

MOLECULAR WEIGHT: 61.84dditional is:

So I guess it's not the same thing after all.

I already bought the Bio and used it once. Can I use the Bio and Spaguard? Maybe Bio on initial then Spaguard there after or visversa. Just a thought so to use up the 7KG. Actualy I am switching my new pool to salt so can I use the Bio into it?

[chem geek]

I wouldn't use the BioGuard product by itself as the pH would rise too much. I was only half-right since I thought the product would be a mixture and not just Boric Acid by itself (the BioGuard Proteam Supreme Plus product for pools is a mixture that is pH neutral). Boric Acid is a pretty weak acid.

I just added the Boric Acid chemical addition to my spreadsheet (haven't uploaded it yet) and find that if you add about 1 cup of the SpaGuard Boric Acid product, then this adds around 30 ppm to Borates in 350 gallons and the pH will drop from 7.5 to 7.25 if the TA were 80. If you then add 1 ounce volume (2 tablespoons) of the BioGuard tetraborate product, the pH would go up to 7.61 and you'd add about 3-1/2 ppm more to the Borates.

So basically you can't use very much of the BioGuard product because it causes the pH to rise way too much. You should probably give/sell it to someone who has a pool and plans to add it along with acid addition first. Either that or you have to do the pain-in-the-rear approach I described earlier of acid addition followed by the BioGuard product.

Richard

[Boute]

Thanks Richard for your input.

After ready all this, it is starting to make some sense as to, before I ran out of SpasGuard O.P. I had to add periodically some TA to maintain it.

After putting in 14 ts (2 caps) of Bioguard it brought my PH from 6.4 (witch was low and I was ready to increase it with Pack 100) to 7.2 (this is guesstimation as I am using AquasCheck strips for now) and it took over 24 hours to reach that 7.2 or what ever it may be accurately.

This hole thing is kind of fascinating me as long as it is not skin or heath threatening.

Conclusion so far is that, if you would agree is that I could play with these two, Spas and Bio to maintain my PH on my weekly dose of optimizerplus!

Reason of my saying is if one lowers the PH and the other increases it, I could alternate in a sequence so to maintain the PH only, no?

[chem geek]

You can alternate between the two, but keep in mind that a LITTLE Bioguard, as you have found out, raises the pH quite a bit while it takes a LOT of Spaguard to lower the pH only a little. Roughly speaking, 4 teaspoons of Bioguard balances out a cup (8 ounces; 16 tablespoons; 48 teaspoons) of Spaguard from a pH perspective. That is, by volume, Bioguard is 12 times as alkaline as Spaguard is acidic.

If I start with your numbers at a pH of 6.4, then 14 teaspoons of Bioguard would raise the pH to about 6.8 so the extra rise to 7.2 was probably due to additional outgassing of carbon dioxide (or your TA was lower than 80 to start with). And yes, you are right that when using Spaguard, it's acidity meant that combined with aeration the pH would be roughly stable but the TA would slowly lower over time.

The thing is that I'm sure you will get to 50 ppm Borates rather quickly with the Spaguard as that takes cumulatively a total of about 1-1/2 cups plus only 6 teaspoons of Bioguard so you will have hardly used very much Bioguard at all. So I just don't see how you are going to be using up your Bioguard. As for health, 30-50 ppm Borates is what is normally recommended for pools as an additional pH buffer and algaecide. Both Spaguard and Bioguard recommended 30 ppm Borates for initial startup with Spaguard also adding 6 ppm Borates every other week (not sure why since it shouldn't go away and there's not much splash out from a spa -- perhaps filter cleaning???).

Richard