Also With Hot Tub Itch

[sagemurphy]

Hi, Iam also having problems with hot tub itch and rash. Had no problems with rash for first 2 months using chlorine, then developed rash and started and completed course of Cipro,but did not stop using spa. Emptied tub after superchlorinating it , scrubbed down with bleach and water, refilled and started using Bromine. Rash was gone, after using Bromine for 2 weeks have developed rash again , not as bad, using MPS as shock, shower after each use. This was on advice of spa dealer.. I love the spa and love to soak every night but after 2-3 nights itching is very bad, Any advice, please

[Whoneedsavacation]

Did the M.D. definitively diagnose a bacterial infection? If so, you want to make sure that's completely cured before restarting the tub and getting back in.

It also sounds possible you are sensitive to the MPS.

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

Hi, Iam also having problems with hot tub itch and rash. Had no problems with rash for first 2 months using chlorine, then developed rash and started and completed course of Cipro,but did not stop using spa. Emptied tub after superchlorinating it , scrubbed down with bleach and water, refilled and started using Bromine. Rash was gone, after using Bromine for 2 weeks have developed rash again , not as bad, using MPS as shock, shower after each use. This was on advice of spa dealer.. I love the spa and love to soak every night but after 2-3 nights itching is very bad, Any advice, please

What have your PH levels been like? if PH and alklinity levels start getting off, it will cause itching etc. I dont think it is a reaction to MPS since you didnt shock with that untill using bromine. Did you clean the filters out real well when you drained and cleaned the tub? Scrub all the pillows?

[Dr. Spa]

You're taking medical advise from a spa dealer?

[TinyBubbles]

There are so many things that could be going on. We don't even know if the hot tub is responsible. The only thing you can do is go to an allergist and get skin tested. Make sure you allergist has knowledge of everything you've used in your spa, including things to balance the water. I would think that if you truely have the "hot tub itch" then you'd have to disinfect bathing suits worn in spa, towels used to dry off, filters, everything. Maybe even throw them away.

P.S.

I don't see where she took medical advice from a spa dealer. Unless he's the one that prescribed the antibiotics. The dealer was offering her advice on using bromine instead of chlorine and showering after use. I wonder if he charged a co-pay?

[sagemurphy]

I did not get medical advice from a spa dealer, I had a scheduled appt with my MD and mentioned the rash, He felt it was a bacterial infect from the hot tub and so rx the abx. Also we used MPS in the spa when we first got it and were using chlorine. This was on the advice of the spa dealer. I know I should not have used the spa with an active rash, but I love it so much and had no willpower. It was gone when we switched to bromine and I was rash free until about 2 weeks of using it. We did scrub out the tub and completely switched to clean filters but did not remove the pillows Of course it this continues I will go the dermatologist but in the meantime any advice would be appreciated The chemicals have always tested adequate and have adjusted pH as needed. Is it necessary to use MPS or can you shock with extra bromine? Thanks

[sagemurphy]

I did not get medical advice from a spa dealer, I had a scheduled appt with my MD and mentioned the rash, He felt it was a bacterial infect from the hot tub and so rx the abx. Also we used MPS in the spa when we first got it and were using chlorine. This was on the advice of the spa dealer. I know I should not have used the spa with an active rash, but I love it so much and had no willpower. It was gone when we switched to bromine and I was rash free until about 2 weeks of using it. We did scrub out the tub and completely switched to clean filters but did not remove the pillows Of course it this continues I will go the dermatologist but in the meantime any advice would be appreciated The chemicals have always tested adequate and have adjusted pH as needed. Is it necessary to use MPS or can you shock with extra bromine? Thanks

[sagemurphy]

Or with bromine as my sanitizer can I shock weekly with chlorine or bleach, we are in the tub almost nightly (just me and my husband), for about an hour, should we shock more frequently? thanks, getting more confused, just want to not have this rash.

[chem geek]

Hi, Iam also having problems with hot tub itch and rash. Had no problems with rash for first 2 months using chlorine, then developed rash and started and completed course of Cipro,but did not stop using spa. Emptied tub after superchlorinating it , scrubbed down with bleach and water, refilled and started using Bromine. Rash was gone, after using Bromine for 2 weeks have developed rash again , not as bad, using MPS as shock, shower after each use. This was on advice of spa dealer.. I love the spa and love to soak every night but after 2-3 nights itching is very bad, Any advice, please

What was your source of chlorine during those first 2 months before you got the rash? I presume it was Dichlor. If so, how much did you add how often and what is the size of your spa?

[sagemurphy]

Hi, Iam also having problems with hot tub itch and rash. Had no problems with rash for first 2 months using chlorine, then developed rash and started and completed course of Cipro,but did not stop using spa. Emptied tub after superchlorinating it , scrubbed down with bleach and water, refilled and started using Bromine. Rash was gone, after using Bromine for 2 weeks have developed rash again , not as bad, using MPS as shock, shower after each use. This was on advice of spa dealer.. I love the spa and love to soak every night but after 2-3 nights itching is very bad, Any advice, please

What was your source of chlorine during those first 2 months before you got the rash? I presume it was Dichlor. If so, how much did you add how often and what is the size of your spa?

[sagemurphy]

Hi, Iam also having problems with hot tub itch and rash. Had no problems with rash for first 2 months using chlorine, then developed rash and started and completed course of Cipro,but did not stop using spa. Emptied tub after superchlorinating it , scrubbed down with bleach and water, refilled and started using Bromine. Rash was gone, after using Bromine for 2 weeks have developed rash again , not as bad, using MPS as shock, shower after each use. This was on advice of spa dealer.. I love the spa and love to soak every night but after 2-3 nights itching is very bad, Any advice, please

What was your source of chlorine during those first 2 months before you got the rash? I presume it was Dichlor. If so, how much did you add how often and what is the size of your spa?

[sagemurphy]

Thanks for responding. We used Spa guard chlorine concentrate approx 2 teaspoons after each soak, approx 5-6 times a week for 1 hr. Also used MPS (nonchlorine) once a week. When I developed rash we were told not to use MPS , se we used chlorine concentrate to shock (1tbsp and 1 teaspoon) once a week. We went away for a few days, rash went away, started back up upon returning to spa, got worse. Spa is Jacuzzi 355, 360 gallons, chemicals always tested ok. but when brought in sample tested 100 for cya. Emptied tub after superchlorinating and ran for 3 hours. cleaned with bleach and water. cleansed filters, filled and now using Spa guard bromine concentrate and shocking with mps, tonight brought in sample, cya after 1 month was 125. Thinking about using bromine tablets with floater as spa dealer called Spa Guard company and tablets have less dichor than bromine concentrate, any other suggestions should we dump and refill again, husband is sick of doing this

[chem geek]

Thanks for responding. We used Spa guard chlorine concentrate approx 2 teaspoons after each soak, approx 5-6 times a week for 1 hr. Also used MPS (nonchlorine) once a week. When I developed rash we were told not to use MPS , se we used chlorine concentrate to shock (1tbsp and 1 teaspoon) once a week. We went away for a few days, rash went away, started back up upon returning to spa, got worse. Spa is Jacuzzi 355, 360 gallons, chemicals always tested ok. but when brought in sample tested 100 for cya. Emptied tub after superchlorinating and ran for 3 hours. cleaned with bleach and water. cleansed filters, filled and now using Spa guard bromine concentrate and shocking with mps, tonight brought in sample, cya after 1 month was 125. Thinking about using bromine tablets with floater as spa dealer called Spa Guard company and tablets have less dichor than bromine concentrate, any other suggestions should we dump and refill again, husband is sick of doing this

Thanks for the info and I'm really sorry you are having such difficulty. 2 teaspoons of Dichlor (which is what Spa Guard chlorine concentrate is -- see the MSDS here) in 360 gallons would add around 3.8 ppm FC and 3.5 ppm CYA. So if done on average 5.5 times per week that would be 3.5*5.5 = 19 ppm CYA per week or around 82 ppm per month. Depending on the type of CYA test that was used, it might have been 100+ since visual turbidity tests usually stop marking at 100 (they start at 20 or 30). So you may have had closer to 160 ppm CYA after two months (or I could be wrong and CYA doesn't hold up as well as I had thought). Also, the CYA test isn't always very accurate, especially at higher CYA levels.

After developing the rash and using chlorine (Dichlor) to shock instead of MPS, you added even more CYA that much faster. All of this CYA made the chlorine less effective. I don't know if that allowed the bacteria that causes hot tub itch to grow, but it could have and certainly you were making your spa less and less disinfected over time with the buildup of CYA.

So then you emptied the tub and superchlorinated, which if you used the SpaGuard then that added CYA again, and switched to SpaGuard Bromine Concentrate which is actually a combination of Dichlor and sodium bromide as shown in this MSDS. YIKES! This bromine product has to be one of the stupidest things I can imagine since it contains Dichlor. Most bromine products are either slow-dissolving tablets (containing bromine or bromine and chlorine attached to dimethylhydantoin (e.g. BCDMH or DBDMH)) or are sodium bromide. So there's a clear explanation as to why your CYA is high again. At least in a bromine spa, the CYA shouldn't be reducing bromine's effectiveness the way it does with chlorine. So your spa people are half-right when they say that bromine tablets would be better -- it's not that they have less Dichlor, but rather that they have NO dichlor, and that's a good thing so this was good advice.

So there are many possibilities here. Some people have a reaction to MPS; others to bromine; very few to chlorine itself unless not maintained properly (in which case chloramines can be irritating -- see this link for examples of some people sensitive to monochloramine). At higher CYA levels, the breakpoint of monochloramine slows down so that can build up to potentially irritating levels, at least in theory. And it's of course possible that the high CYA made the chlorine so ineffective that the bacteria grew. And it's possible the irritation was just a slow buildup of heat and pressure irritation from the jets as that also happens to some people. So I really don't know what is the case in your situation.

As for what to do, that's tough, especially since you've got irritation again and it's a bromine spa now. I would say you basically have two choices. Switch to the bromine tablets and make sure the bromine levels are kept up at all times. If that works, great. If not, then you can drain/refill and switch back to using chlorine again but this time you will only use Dichlor initially to get up to 20 ppm CYA which is about one week's worth at the dosing you were doing. Thereafter, switch to using unscented bleach (e.g. 6% Clorox Regular) which is about 3 fluid ounces to get 4 ppm FC after each soak. Adjust the dosage so that you measure at least some chlorine when you get in the next day (even 0.5 - 1.0 ppm), though getting to 4 ppm FC by adding chlorine after a soak will probably be about right (since typical usage is around 3-4 ppm FC per day). Whenever you add bleach, do so slowly over a return flow with the circulation pump running but the jets off (or you can take a bucket of spa water and add the bleach to it, mix, then slowly pour it back into the spa). For shocking, use MPS once a week (this minimizes the risk of your being sensitive to it since it won't last for more than a day or two at normal dosing of a tablespoon or two).

If you can't stand the thought of using bleach, then you can use Lithium hypochlorite instead as this is a powder that is essentially the same, but it's much more expensive. This is supposed to dissolve quickly, but some say it doesn't, so you may need to pre-dissolve it in a bucket of water if you use this form of chlorine. Finally, to reduce the smell of chlorine, take the cover off for at least 5 minutes before you get into the spa.

One last piece of advice is to get a good test kit. It's important to accurately measure your chlorine or bromine level. For chlorine, get either the Taylor K-2006 which you can get at a good price here or get the TF100 kit from tftestkits.com here that has 36% more volume of reagents so is comparably priced with the Taylor kit (the TF100 also measures CYA down to 20 ppm while the K-2006 only goes down to 30 ppm). For bromine, the kit would be the Taylor K-2106, but if you're not sure which way you are going to go, I would get the chlorine kit and then either multiply the drop count by 2.25 and add together the free and combined drop counts (or you can just add the R-0003 first) or you can get the Taylor K-1517-A (shown here) which is just the FAS-DPD bromine test by itself (so the other tests would be from the K-2006 kit).

Richard

[TinyBubbles]

I think it's good news that when you went away for a few days, your itch went away. I don't think that hot tub itch would have cleared up that soon. Sounds more like a sensitivity. Do you wear a suit in the spa? Do you get the itch anywhere in particular? If I wore a suit in the spa, I always got a few bumps under it. No suit, no bumps.

[sagemurphy]

One last question for now. If I switch to bromine tablets in a floater, do we shock once a week with MPS, or should we try not using the MPS at all in case I have a sensitivity to it, Thanks so much for all your answers

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

One last question for now. If I switch to bromine tablets in a floater, do we shock once a week with MPS, or should we try not using the MPS at all in case I have a sensitivity to it, Thanks so much for all your answers

You said you only use the tub 5-6 times per week so I would shock with MPS on the day before you know you are not going to use the tub. This will help to oxidize and reestablish bromine and give some time before you enter the water again. I would use the smallest does of MPS possible. We have a 500 gallon tub and use 1 ounce 1 time per week to shock, it works great for us.

[sagemurphy]

Within the next couple weeks I plan to empty my spa. Currently using Bromine tabs in a floater, shocking weekly with MPS, odding Spa Guard Brominating concentrate as needed Chemical readings have been good, still using test strips, Still have mild rash, gets much better after being out of spa for a few days. Should I superchlorinate or add a shock of brominating concentrate and run pumps for a few hours before we empty? Shoul we use a spa flush product This says to remove filters to run the flush Can you run a Jacuzzi tub safely without the filters? If this doesnt work will probably try chlorine again, but I really am hesitant to use bleach because of warrent issues. Any suggestions of trying to get rid of this itching.

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

Within the next couple weeks I plan to empty my spa. Currently using Bromine tabs in a floater, shocking weekly with MPS, odding Spa Guard Brominating concentrate as needed Chemical readings have been good, still using test strips, Still have mild rash, gets much better after being out of spa for a few days. Should I superchlorinate or add a shock of brominating concentrate and run pumps for a few hours before we empty? Shoul we use a spa flush product This says to remove filters to run the flush Can you run a Jacuzzi tub safely without the filters? If this doesnt work will probably try chlorine again, but I really am hesitant to use bleach because of warrent issues. Any suggestions of trying to get rid of this itching.

It still sounds like a sensitivity, since you are using the brominating concentrate, try going without the MPS. you should not need both. If the rash subsides, maybe your issue is with MPS. If not it may be the bromine. I think it may be a trial and error to see what is bothering your skin. Have you applied lotion after tub use to see if it helps? what has the doc said/suggested?

If you had the actual gem that caused the spa rash, you tub will have to be super shocked drained filters cleaned and spa flush would not hurt. You can remove the filters for the short amount of time the flush is running through your system, just make sure there is no visable larger debris in the tub that could get into the pumps.