Trouble Keeping Bromine Levels Up

[Vermonter]

Hello again, Forum.... I'm still having problems keeping my Bromine levels up, for some reason. After shocking with MPS, the levels seem to come up to normal (sometimes very high, actually), but by the next morning, they are back to zero again. This has been happening consistently for several weeks now. I've cleaned my filters (a few times, actually)... I'm using the large bromine tablets (approx. 23g each), and it says on the container that they are "slow dissolving". I've been using one of those floating feeders, and have had the thing pretty much cranked all the way open, which doesn't raise the levels until I use the MPS (this is when the levels are really high, of course), but still back to 0 by the next morning. I've just changed the filters out for new ones, but I doubt this will have any great effect.

One thought I've had... is it possible that my bromide reserve has been used up from too much MPS? I added 2 oz to 350 gallons at the time I first filled it, which was around Thanksgiving (1 month ago-ish)

A related note.. I found out recently that my ozonator chip is worn out (could be the whole unit, I suppose, but hoping it's the chip)... I bought the thing used, and it's about a year old. I read on one of the threads that the ozonator helps to keep the Bromine "free"... does it make it much easier to maintain with the ozonator working? I've been wondering if it's worth the $36 plus shipping to get a new chip, starting to think maybe it is...

Any help is, as usual, greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance...

Tony

[chem geek]

Tony,

It is possible that the bromide reserve would get used up through outgassing (not from MPS) EXCEPT that you said you also use a floating feeder with bromine tablets. Do you know if the tablets are 1,3-Dibromo-5,5-dimethylhydantoin (DBDMH) or 1-Bromo-3-chloro-5,5-dimethylhydantoin (BCDMH)? Either one would add more bromine while the latter would add chlorine to reactivate extra bromide to bromine as well.

As for the ozonator, it's a mixed blessing. It can oxidize bromide to bromine so can act like MPS or chlorine in that way, but it can also oxidize bromine to bromate. If it were not for this latter possibility, the use of an oxidizer with bromine makes a whole lot of sense. On balance, it's probably better to have the ozonator than not (but note that bromate is a "possible" carcinogen, but that's probably more of an issue if you drank the spa water regularly).

As for the raised levels after using MPS, that might be a false reading from the MPS itself since some chlorine/bromine tests measure MPS. If you have a separate MPS test, then that can help distinguish between the two.

How long do the 23g tablets last? If I assume they are BCDMH, then (1000mg/g)*(2*79.904g/mole Br₂)*(23g)/(241.49g/mole)/(1325 liters)

= 11.5 ppm Bromine. That's actually not very much. Are you sure these "large" tablets are only 23 grams? That's only 0.8 ounces weight. For something with even the same density as water that would be around 0.8 fluid ounces in size or a little under 2 tablespoons. A standard Trichlor puck, for comparison, is 8 ounces weight (and 3" in diameter) so your bromine tablet would be one-tenth that weight which is pretty light. How many of these are in your feeder and how long before you replace them all (i.e. how many tablets per how long)?

Richard

[Vermonter]

Thanks again for the help, Richard-

So, the tablets are 86.4% BCDMH and 8.6% DBDMH, and provide 66.8% Available Bromine and 25.4% available Chlorine. It says on the back of the container "Each tablet weighs approx. .8 oz (23 grams)". The feeder holds around 4 tablets, maybe 5, and this lasts around 2 weeks, I'd say. I've been messing with it quite a bit though (opening and closing it.... I know, not very empirical) so it's hard to say. The spa manufacturer suggests "placing 1 or 2 tablets directly in the filter housing once a week." Do you think I should just put 2 in there and call it a day? Doesn't seem very accurate, but at least I should get some results, I should think.

Tony

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

Hello again, Forum.... I'm still having problems keeping my Bromine levels up, for some reason. After shocking with MPS, the levels seem to come up to normal (sometimes very high, actually), but by the next morning, they are back to zero again. This has been happening consistently for several weeks now. I've cleaned my filters (a few times, actually)... I'm using the large bromine tablets (approx. 23g each), and it says on the container that they are "slow dissolving". I've been using one of those floating feeders, and have had the thing pretty much cranked all the way open, which doesn't raise the levels until I use the MPS (this is when the levels are really high, of course), but still back to 0 by the next morning. I've just changed the filters out for new ones, but I doubt this will have any great effect.

One thought I've had... is it possible that my bromide reserve has been used up from too much MPS? I added 2 oz to 350 gallons at the time I first filled it, which was around Thanksgiving (1 month ago-ish)

A related note.. I found out recently that my ozonator chip is worn out (could be the whole unit, I suppose, but hoping it's the chip)... I bought the thing used, and it's about a year old. I read on one of the threads that the ozonator helps to keep the Bromine "free"... does it make it much easier to maintain with the ozonator working? I've been wondering if it's worth the $36 plus shipping to get a new chip, starting to think maybe it is...

Any help is, as usual, greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance...

Tony

The cause of the bromine level dropping is usually because it is working on some type of contaminate. Heavy use will cause this. Bromine is renewable, hence when you shock it will renew itself untill it is used up again. I would suggest to shock it daily for a few days, pull and clean the filters well and use a clarifier to help reomeve the contaminate, even if the water is clear. Replacing the ozone will help dramatically. I would suggest to look in the new ozone generators. they produce better ozone, last longer and are energy efficient. The chips only last 6 months to 2 years depending on spa use and the age of the generator. Being a spa service company we see alot of burned out chips and most people choose to go with the new generator from Balboa.

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

Hello again, Forum.... I'm still having problems keeping my Bromine levels up, for some reason. After shocking with MPS, the levels seem to come up to normal (sometimes very high, actually), but by the next morning, they are back to zero again. This has been happening consistently for several weeks now. I've cleaned my filters (a few times, actually)... I'm using the large bromine tablets (approx. 23g each), and it says on the container that they are "slow dissolving". I've been using one of those floating feeders, and have had the thing pretty much cranked all the way open, which doesn't raise the levels until I use the MPS (this is when the levels are really high, of course), but still back to 0 by the next morning. I've just changed the filters out for new ones, but I doubt this will have any great effect.

One thought I've had... is it possible that my bromide reserve has been used up from too much MPS? I added 2 oz to 350 gallons at the time I first filled it, which was around Thanksgiving (1 month ago-ish)

A related note.. I found out recently that my ozonator chip is worn out (could be the whole unit, I suppose, but hoping it's the chip)... I bought the thing used, and it's about a year old. I read on one of the threads that the ozonator helps to keep the Bromine "free"... does it make it much easier to maintain with the ozonator working? I've been wondering if it's worth the $36 plus shipping to get a new chip, starting to think maybe it is...

Any help is, as usual, greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance...

Tony

The cause of the bromine level dropping is usually because it is working on some type of contaminate. Heavy use will cause this. Bromine is renewable, hence when you shock it will renew itself untill it is used up again. I would suggest to shock it daily for a few days, pull and clean the filters well and use a clarifier to help reomeve the contaminate, even if the water is clear. Replacing the ozone will help dramatically. I would suggest to look in the new ozone generators. they produce better ozone, last longer and are energy efficient. The chips only last 6 months to 2 years depending on spa use and the age of the generator. Being a spa service company we see alot of burned out chips and most people choose to go with the new generator from Balboa.

Alos, do not ever put bromine tabs right into skimmer or filter. Bromine has a low PH (around 3.0) and this causes that low ph to go directly to spa pump/heaters which can do major damage. It has to dissipate into the water.

[chem geek]

Tony,

As Hillbilly Hot Tub said, a loss of bromine means a demand for it exceeding its supply. By not having a working ozonator, the bromine has to do all the work oxidizing organics though in practice it doesn't combine nor oxidize organics as readily as chlorine (that's an advantage of bromine in the sense it doesn't produce as many disinfection by-products) so using MPS is definitely required when using bromine unless you've got an ozonator.

The 86.4% BCDMH provides

(2*79.904g/mole Br2)/(241.49g/mole BCDMH)*0.864 = 57.2% Available Bromine

(2*35.453g/mole Br2)/(241.49g/mole BCDMH)*0.864 = 25.4% Available Chlorine

The 8.6% DBDMH provides

2*(2*79.904g/mole Br2)/(285.93g/mole BCDMH)*0.086 = 9.6% Available Bromine

so the total product produces 57.2+9.6 = 66.8% Available Bromine which is consistent with the numbers they gave.

By the way, bromine in the form of BCDMH has a pH of around 4.6 and isn't that acidic in terms of its load on the spa -- not that much more than MPS based on the quantities that get added. It's not nearly as acidic as Trichlor, for example. Nevertheless, I agree that you should never put such acidic sources in the skimmer or filter unless the pump is continually running or else when the pump is off the local water can get too acidic and damage the area near the tablets (and blast the pump/filter with acidity briefly when the pump turns back on). The only exception would be products designed to not dissolve when there isn't water flow such as BioGuard Smart Sticks (which are Trichlor with special binders to prevent dissolving unless there's water flow).

As for the supply/demand issue, 5 tablets (which can't be that large at 0.8 ounces) is 5*23g*0.668 = 76.8 grams of bromine which in 1325 liters (350 gallons) is 1000*76.8/1325 = 58 mg/liter or 58 ppm. Over 2 weeks (14 days), that's only around 4 ppm bromine which isn't enough for typical usage. Some bromine will get regenerated by the chlorine which is 5*23g*0.254 = 29.2 grams of chlorine which is 22 ppm Free Chlorine (FC) which is enough to reactivate about 50 ppm Bromine. So you've got the dissolved 58 ppm bromine plus 50 ppm reactivated so 108 over 14 days which is 7.7 ppm bromine per day which isn't enough to meet demand. Normal FC is around 4 ppm per day which is equivalent to 9 ppm bromine per day. You've also added MPS which will reactivate more bromine, but apparently not enough.

I don't think you need more bromine tablets as you've probably got a very large bromide bank already. What you need is more shock to reactivate more bromide to bromine and to oxidize organics (or ammonia) that has built up (or could get the ozonator fixed since that will oxidize organics).

It sounds like there has just been a buildup of organics or ammonia that needs to get oxidized, possibly from not enough daily MPS in the past, so try adding a rather large amount of MPS and/or chlorine to shock and keep doing that until you register bromine/chlorine the next day. People sweat a LOT in a hot tub so if you don't oxidize all of the ammonia-like products with each use, then they just build up and it will seem later on like you've got endless demand, but it's just a buildup over time.

If you add a lot of MPS, you may find the pH dropping so keep an eye on that. If you use chlorine (bleach), then the oxidation process will be more pH neutral so you may find the pH rise from the normal outgassing of carbon dioxide instead. If you're really tricky, you can alternately use MPS and chlorine bleach to keep the pH more stable, but this really isn't that big a deal -- just watch out for the pH getting too low if you only use MPS to shock for several days (or however long it takes).

At least that's my best guess at this point.

Richard

[Vermonter]

Thanks for the info, guys... what I've learned, then, is: 1) More shock It really seemed like I was using too much already, but maybe I just let it get away from me... makes sense. 2) The best explanation for not putting tablets right into filter compartment I've heard- thanks a lot! and 3) Replace my ozonator.

Hillbilly, do you have a particular model of ozonator you would recommend? Right now I have this one installed, so one that would fit in the spot where it came out of would be great.

Richard, I will try shocking the hell out of it (actually, I just superchlorinated yesterday, and it seems pretty good (if a little high- around 4ppm FC) when I checked this morning)... like I said, I switched out the filters for new ones yesterday, as well, which will hopefully help somewhat. It looks clearer already, which is a good sign.

Tony

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

Thanks for the info, guys... what I've learned, then, is: 1) More shock It really seemed like I was using too much already, but maybe I just let it get away from me... makes sense. 2) The best explanation for not putting tablets right into filter compartment I've heard- thanks a lot! and 3) Replace my ozonator.

Hillbilly, do you have a particular model of ozonator you would recommend? Right now I have this one installed, so one that would fit in the spot where it came out of would be great.

Richard, I will try shocking the hell out of it (actually, I just superchlorinated yesterday, and it seems pretty good (if a little high- around 4ppm FC) when I checked this morning)... like I said, I switched out the filters for new ones yesterday, as well, which will hopefully help somewhat. It looks clearer already, which is a good sign.

Tony

Tony,

We highly suggest the Plasma cell Ozone 3 by Balboa, It is longer than the one you currently have, but we have been able to fit it into all the tubs we have converted. I guess you would have to look at the space you have, or if it could attach somewhere else, it can be placed up higher. I will say after several years of hot tub service, these by far are the best in the industry and a lot of manufactues are going back to them because of the chips constantly dying in the others.

[Vermonter]

Thanks for the recommendation, Hillbilly.... I will definitely look into it.

Now, for my update. It has been 4 days since my last confession... er, since I started this post. My Bromine levels are back to 0.0 ppm as of this morning, and they have slowly been dropping since I superchlorinated 5 days ago. I have only used the tub twice (on Saturday and Sunday), both days for about an hour each with my girlfriend (which means a total of 4 person-hours)... we both showered before getting in (yes, we used soap), and afterwards I shocked with 1 oz. of MPS each time. And yet, the level is back to zero. Oh, and I installed a BRAND NEW set of filters 4 days ago, so that should not be the problem. This must mean, don't you think, that I'm not introducing enough Br in the first place? It can't possibly be that dirty, this has been going on for a couple of weeks now, and I've superchlorinated 2 or 3 times in that time, and used nearly 2 lbs of MPS... what do you think?? Oh, my pH and TA are 7.6 and 81, respectively, also as of this morning (I am using a digital strip reader, which is definitely spotty, and will get a test kit as soon as I can, but I think the results are at least close to where the truth lies)... thanks again!

One other thing (a bit off topic)... does anyone have a filter soak they strongly recommend? The one I used didn't get the scale off the old filters.

Tony

[chem geek]

Tony,

MPS has an effective molecular weight of 680 g/mole (due to it not being pure) and each molecule oxidizes two other molecules so converted to chlorine equivalent 1 ounce of MPS is 2*70.906/680 = 0.2 ounces chlorine (as chlorine gas, so 100% available chlorine). 350 gallons is 1325 liters and 1 ounce weight is 28.35 grams so 1 ounce weight of MPS in 350 gallons is 0.2*28.35*1000/1325 = 4.5 mg/liter = 4.5 ppm. There is probably some sort of usage or loss even when not using the spa and that may be around 1 ppm FC equivalent. Bather load might be 3 ppm per person per use (would depend on length of use, but I don't know what the typical number would be). So two people would be 2*3+1 = 7 ppm just for each use day plus 1 ppm for each non-use day. So the 1 ounce of MPS for each of two use days plus some non-use days was probably not enough to reactivate enough bromine. I used chlorine (FC) for my units above -- the bromine level is 2.25 times the chlorine level in terms of equivalent units (test kits usually just show a factor of 2 for simplicity). So 1 ounce weight of MPS in 350 gallons would reactivate 10.1 ppm Bromine.

Richard

[poolyeti]

GLB Fliter Cleanse is a good product.

[Vermonter]

First off, thanks for the recommendation, poolyeti... does it remove scale pretty well, or would I be better off using CLR spray, as I have read in another thread elsewhere on this forum?

And now.... so, when the MPS instructions say "2 oz per week, or more often for heavy bather loads", that is basically a load of bull, no? I mean, what exactly do they consider a "light bather load"? 2 person hours per week? 3?? It drives me nuts that the manufacturers of these chemicals don't give more specific instructions... I mean, "heavy bather load" is rather vague, don't you think? Argh.... Well, I superchlorinated once again today, which I imagine will help... I'm considering this schedule: 1 oz MPS after each soak (which tend to be long soaks rather infrequently, probably around 4 to 6 hours a week over 2 days) , and 8 oz. 6% bleach once a week (perhaps after the weekend) ... what do you think? And so, you don't think that the problem could be not adding enough Bromine in the first place? Oh, and isn't 10.1 ppm Bromine plenty to be reactivated? I thought 2 to 4 ppm at a time was enough? Could you please explain to me why not? Thank you!!

Tony

[chem geek]

Tony,

According to Dupont who makes Oxone which is the MPS used in virtually all non-chlorine shock products, the recommended dosage for pools is 1 pound per 10,000 gallons 1-2 times per week depending on bather load. For spas, the recommendation is 1-2 ounces per 250 gallons after each use or at least once a week if not used.

Their broad guidelines for bather load are:

High bather load: <1000 gal/bather/day

Medium bather load: 1000-5000 gal/bather/day

Low bather load: >5000 gal/bather/day

That would make virtually all spas high bather load unless used very infrequently (say, one person, once a week).

I used to think their recommendations were on the high side, but perhaps it isn't by as much as I thought. The MPS instructions you are reading aren't appropriate if you are using only MPS to regenerate your bromine. With BCDMH tablets, these should have chlorine in them that regenerates some bromine plus it has bromine as well, but these tablets dissolve slowly and I've discussed quantities before.

I don't think the problem is not having enough bromine or bromide in the first place -- not if you've been using BCDMH tablets. They keep adding bromine.

Even if you didn't have enough bromine, if you were using enough MPS so that there was no more ammonia left to oxidize, then it would build up so should be measured on MPS test strips or would show up as Total Bromine in a bromine test (and Total Chlorine in a chlorine test). So it seems to me that this isn't an issue of not enough bromide in the bank, but rather not having it or MPS or chlorine or anything else for that matter to oxidize the volume of ammonia/organics you've got. Yes, 10.1 ppm bromine is a decent amount (equivalent to 4.5 ppm FC), but you say it should be enough to be reactivated, but if you are measuring bromine (not bromide) then it is already active. I know you can measure Total Bromine, but I didn't think you could measure the amount of bromide (inactive bromine) though that would certainly be nice to know (it would tell you the size of your bromine "bank" so would tell you when you need more BCDMH or sodium bromide). I would think that 10.1 ppm Bromine (4.5 ppm FC equivalent) would be enough for one person-soak, but perhaps it's not in your case and might be on the edge.

What you described with MPS daily and a shock of chlorine weekly sounds good. I assume there is some small bromine addition in the mix, possibly via BCDMH tablets or sodium bromide as well though I don't know that rate of loss which I assume mostly comes from outgassing.

Perhaps waterbear can help out here as I can tell you are frustrated and I'm getting to the end of my understanding of this.

Richard

[waterbear]

One question, is your spa being exposed to sunlight. Bromine cannot be stabilzied against UV light and if your spa is being left uncovered and is exposed to sunlight your bromine will be dissapated quickly.

[Vermonter]

Thank you again, Richard, for your patience and understanding. I'm glad you have some, because as you suggested, I'm running out! I hope you understand that my frustration was in no way directed towards you... on re-reading my last post, I could see it being construed as such. Not at all! Your help has been incredibly informative, not just your responses directly to me, but your posts all over this forum.

Waterbear, the entire hot tub is exposed to sunlight (i.e. it's in a sunny location), but the water itself is rarely exposed to sunlight... it's covered all day, every day, and I almost always use it at night (or around dusk, I guess)...

Tony

[poolyeti]

First off, thanks for the recommendation, poolyeti... does it remove scale pretty well, or would I be better off using CLR spray, as I have read in another thread elsewhere on this forum?

Fliter Cleanse is formulated with a detergent to remove oils and acids to remove mineral deposits. Since scale is an indication of water that is too high in calcium, I would imagine that it should be pretty effective. If you're also running into scale outside the filter, then I would suggest a dilute solution of muriatic acid.

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

First off, thanks for the recommendation, poolyeti... does it remove scale pretty well, or would I be better off using CLR spray, as I have read in another thread elsewhere on this forum?

Fliter Cleanse is formulated with a detergent to remove oils and acids to remove mineral deposits. Since scale is an indication of water that is too high in calcium, I would imagine that it should be pretty effective. If you're also running into scale outside the filter, then I would suggest a dilute solution of muriatic acid.

Omni, which has now switched to Simplicity has a great filter cleaner also. I maintaine several tubs in Vermont homes and scale and iron are a problem. The scale and if you have iron (most vermonters do) will chew up your Bromine also. Its working to remove the metals. Water tables and amounts of minerals changed dramatically this year in certain Vermont and NH areas. not sure why. Have you ever used a metal and scale remover in your tub? Richard is right, a tub your size should be shocked with 2 ounces of MPS and daily use by 2 people is heavy use.

[Vermonter]

First off, thanks for the recommendation, poolyeti... does it remove scale pretty well, or would I be better off using CLR spray, as I have read in another thread elsewhere on this forum?

Fliter Cleanse is formulated with a detergent to remove oils and acids to remove mineral deposits. Since scale is an indication of water that is too high in calcium, I would imagine that it should be pretty effective. If you're also running into scale outside the filter, then I would suggest a dilute solution of muriatic acid.

Omni, which has now switched to Simplicity has a great filter cleaner also. I maintaine several tubs in Vermont homes and scale and iron are a problem. The scale and if you have iron (most vermonters do) will chew up your Bromine also. Its working to remove the metals. Water tables and amounts of minerals changed dramatically this year in certain Vermont and NH areas. not sure why. Have you ever used a metal and scale remover in your tub? Richard is right, a tub your size should be shocked with 2 ounces of MPS and daily use by 2 people is heavy use.

Yes, I have used a metal remover, not sure if it was for scale, too, or just metals... it was a used hot tub, and I think the scale that formed on the filters was from the previous owners (I noticed it before I had the thing running)... haven't noticed any additional scale build up since I've owned it, about 2 months now. I just switched out the filters for brand new ones, so I guess I'll know pretty soon if any of it is coming from my water... the hot tub came with this pre-filter thing which is supposed to filter out metals, but who knows?

So, are you saying I should shock with 2 oz MPS every time I use it? I do tend to use it for long periods of time (like an hour or more at a go), with two of us in it, but only a couple of days a week (usually).... seems like a lot of shock (expensive, too!) but if it will make the thing work... Also, did you read my post about shocking with 1 oz of MPS after each use and then 8 oz 6% bleach once a week? Does the 2 oz. dosage take that into consideration? Thanks!

Tony

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

First off, thanks for the recommendation, poolyeti... does it remove scale pretty well, or would I be better off using CLR spray, as I have read in another thread elsewhere on this forum?

Fliter Cleanse is formulated with a detergent to remove oils and acids to remove mineral deposits. Since scale is an indication of water that is too high in calcium, I would imagine that it should be pretty effective. If you're also running into scale outside the filter, then I would suggest a dilute solution of muriatic acid.

Omni, which has now switched to Simplicity has a great filter cleaner also. I maintaine several tubs in Vermont homes and scale and iron are a problem. The scale and if you have iron (most vermonters do) will chew up your Bromine also. Its working to remove the metals. Water tables and amounts of minerals changed dramatically this year in certain Vermont and NH areas. not sure why. Have you ever used a metal and scale remover in your tub? Richard is right, a tub your size should be shocked with 2 ounces of MPS and daily use by 2 people is heavy use.

Yes, I have used a metal remover, not sure if it was for scale, too, or just metals... it was a used hot tub, and I think the scale that formed on the filters was from the previous owners (I noticed it before I had the thing running)... haven't noticed any additional scale build up since I've owned it, about 2 months now. I just switched out the filters for brand new ones, so I guess I'll know pretty soon if any of it is coming from my water... the hot tub came with this pre-filter thing which is supposed to filter out metals, but who knows?

So, are you saying I should shock with 2 oz MPS every time I use it? I do tend to use it for long periods of time (like an hour or more at a go), with two of us in it, but only a couple of days a week (usually).... seems like a lot of shock (expensive, too!) but if it will make the thing work... Also, did you read my post about shocking with 1 oz of MPS after each use and then 8 oz 6% bleach once a week? Does the 2 oz. dosage take that into consideration? Thanks!

Tony

I was trained to shock with 2 ounces of mps after each use( if the bromine levels are not staying up, if they are you do not need all this MPS) on a tub with over 300 gallons and then a dose of dichlor or bromine shock (a 1 step bromine dichlor mix) Everybodys body chemistry is differenrt so it affects the water differently. The pre filter the water goes through do work, although they only last for so many fills. Depends on what kind you have. How many tub fills have gone through it? I would also suggest on a used tub that when you get ready to do a water change you use a plumbing cleaner such as swirl away to get ride of the stuff that has collected in the lines, pump and heater, specially if there was that much previous scale. Scale loves to attach to heaters and pump seals. hope I helped a bit, keep trying, once you get it down pat it will come easy as you learn how you and your water afeect your water chemistry.

[Vermonter]

I was trained to shock with 2 ounces of mps after each use( if the bromine levels are not staying up, if they are you do not need all this MPS) on a tub with over 300 gallons and then a dose of dichlor or bromine shock (a 1 step bromine dichlor mix) Everybodys body chemistry is differenrt so it affects the water differently. The pre filter the water goes through do work, although they only last for so many fills. Depends on what kind you have. How many tub fills have gone through it? I would also suggest on a used tub that when you get ready to do a water change you use a plumbing cleaner such as swirl away to get ride of the stuff that has collected in the lines, pump and heater, specially if there was that much previous scale. Scale loves to attach to heaters and pump seals. hope I helped a bit, keep trying, once you get it down pat it will come easy as you learn how you and your water afeect your water chemistry.

Very helpful, thank you! I started last night with the 2 oz. shock treatment, and will do so for the next few days, and see if things look better. I don't know how many fills have gone through the pre-filter, only one since I've had it (plus a couple of "topping offs"), and since it's only a year old, I would guess 3 or 4 more when the previous owners had it? And I will certainly run a de-scaling soloution when I next fill it, seems like a reasonable thing to do... is "Swirl Away" the name of a specific chemical? Brand name or product name?

I'm looking forward to that time where it becomes easy!! I'm trying to keep my frustration level low, because I do understand that, as with most things, there is a learning curve.

Tony

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

I was trained to shock with 2 ounces of mps after each use( if the bromine levels are not staying up, if they are you do not need all this MPS) on a tub with over 300 gallons and then a dose of dichlor or bromine shock (a 1 step bromine dichlor mix) Everybodys body chemistry is differenrt so it affects the water differently. The pre filter the water goes through do work, although they only last for so many fills. Depends on what kind you have. How many tub fills have gone through it? I would also suggest on a used tub that when you get ready to do a water change you use a plumbing cleaner such as swirl away to get ride of the stuff that has collected in the lines, pump and heater, specially if there was that much previous scale. Scale loves to attach to heaters and pump seals. hope I helped a bit, keep trying, once you get it down pat it will come easy as you learn how you and your water afeect your water chemistry.

Very helpful, thank you! I started last night with the 2 oz. shock treatment, and will do so for the next few days, and see if things look better. I don't know how many fills have gone through the pre-filter, only one since I've had it (plus a couple of "topping offs"), and since it's only a year old, I would guess 3 or 4 more when the previous owners had it? And I will certainly run a de-scaling soloution when I next fill it, seems like a reasonable thing to do... is "Swirl Away" the name of a specific chemical? Brand name or product name?

I'm looking forward to that time where it becomes easy!! I'm trying to keep my frustration level low, because I do understand that, as with most things, there is a learning curve.

Tony

Swirl away is a brand name. They also have stuff called jet clean and I am sure many others. The pre filters I have seen last anywhere from 4 to 12 fills, depending on how many gallons go through them. Also, to help keep the costs down on MPS, look for one that has a higher percentage of the active MPS. Some only have 31% while others have 45%. Besides having more active ingredient, there are less "fillers"(other ingredients) being added to the water.

[Miss Noel]

Hey everyone. I figured I'd come add to this thread since I am having trouble keeping my bromine levels up, too.

My bromine tablets (1") container says they are the following:

= 1-bromo-3chloro-5,5-dimethylhydantoin (60.0%)

= 1,3-dichloro-5,5-dimethylhydantoin (27.4%)

= 1,3-dichloro-5-ethyl-5-methylhydantoin (10.6%)

= "Other Ingredients" (2.0%)

My shock container says it's the following:

= Potassium Peroxymonosulfate

Is this MPS that everyone keeps talking about?

How do you know if your bromine tablets are doing their job? A lot of the chemical talk is going over my head, but I am trying to digest it all.

My tub is 450 gallons. I am supposed to shock with 2 oz. a week with the above.

To keep my levels up I have to shock with another 2 oz. every time we use it (me and the hubby every other night for a half hour to an hour). My concern is, is this bad for the water? Is it unhealthy?

I just replaced all of my water due to other issues (see my other frustrating thread), and I am worried I am going to screw it up again.

My filters are clean. TA and PH look good. Hardness is in a good range, too. The tub is covered all day.

I just tried opening up my floater more. Could this be the issue? Will the floater help keep my bromine levels up? That's what I thought it was for.