Hot Springs Questions (vs Marques)

[JackVa1]

We just finished a wet test at a HS dealer in Roanoke Va. Our only other wet test was the day before we sat in a Marques Reward.

HS has a nice variety, but we were unable to sit in a lounger wet because none was filled. It looked like the leg position in the HS loungers was too low and might cause floating. The Marques dealt with this nicely with raised leg position in the lounger.

My HS questions are:

1. It seemed that the jets turned up in the HS actually moved us off the seats at time. Also between the diverters and air controllers, the HS tubs had a lot of controls to learn and almost too much tuning flexability. Anyone else notice this?

2.Water testing? The guy was a great dealer but when we asked how to know if we neded to balance the water he said you bring it in once a month for a free test. This caused my wife to think we should only deal with HS because this dealer is close by. Is this a HS marketing gimic or just this dealer?

3. HS Chemicals. Dealer said they are not chlorine, but another name I can not remember. Seems there are two additives needed; a couple teaspoons a week of this chlorene - like chemical and a Ozone additive that stays in the tub and is replaced every 4 months or so. Anyone know if these can only be purchased at HS and are these unique products to HS or could I use different additives that I bought over the internet?

BTW: THe HS tubs were significantly cheaper than Marques and include lights and waterfalls whereas the Marques really get pricey if you want more lights or water falls. We are wet testing D-1, Sundance, and Caldera this weekend . My eyes do glaze over just comparing models within a brand, but we are keeping notes.

This forum has been very helpful in our search. Thanks.

[thestallion]

What matters most is what spa you liked sitting in more. Water care is easy with either tub and both are good products made by industry leaders.

[FREDERICKSBURG]

We just finished a wet test at a HS dealer in Roanoke Va. Our only other wet test was the day before we sat in a Marques Reward.

HS has a nice variety, but we were unable to sit in a lounger wet because none was filled. It looked like the leg position in the HS loungers was too low and might cause floating. The Marques dealt with this nicely with raised leg position in the lounger.

My HS questions are:

1. It seemed that the jets turned up in the HS actually moved us off the seats at time. Also between the diverters and air controllers, the HS tubs had a lot of controls to learn and almost too much tuning flexability. Anyone else notice this?

2.Water testing? The guy was a great dealer but when we asked how to know if we neded to balance the water he said you bring it in once a month for a free test. This caused my wife to think we should only deal with HS because this dealer is close by. Is this a HS marketing gimic or just this dealer?

3. HS Chemicals. Dealer said they are not chlorine, but another name I can not remember. Seems there are two additives needed; a couple teaspoons a week of this chlorene - like chemical and a Ozone additive that stays in the tub and is replaced every 4 months or so. Anyone know if these can only be purchased at HS and are these unique products to HS or could I use different additives that I bought over the internet?

BTW: THe HS tubs were significantly cheaper than Marques and include lights and waterfalls whereas the Marques really get pricey if you want more lights or water falls. We are wet testing D-1, Sundance, and Caldera this weekend . My eyes do glaze over just comparing models within a brand, but we are keeping notes.

This forum has been very helpful in our search. Thanks.

I don't think there can be to much fine tuning, If it had no adjustment you would be stuck with whatever the spa was set to do. Too hard to soft etc...

It depends on your water is it well water city water? Your better off dealing with the dealer you feel will serve you best. This will be who you deal with for the next 10 years or so.

You are probably talking about Bromine it works betterin hot water than Chlorine. Look into Salt generators.

Caldera is a hot springs in disguise Hot spring owns them and picked them up for the shell molds and seating. watch the jets they are tiny and have a tendancy to feel piercing.

Sundance is okay I wouldn't consider a D-1 very overpriced

[tony]

We just finished a wet test at a HS dealer in Roanoke Va. Our only other wet test was the day before we sat in a Marques Reward.

HS has a nice variety, but we were unable to sit in a lounger wet because none was filled. It looked like the leg position in the HS loungers was too low and might cause floating. The Marques dealt with this nicely with raised leg position in the lounger.

My HS questions are:

1. It seemed that the jets turned up in the HS actually moved us off the seats at time. Also between the diverters and air controllers, the HS tubs had a lot of controls to learn and almost too much tuning flexability. Anyone else notice this?

2.Water testing? The guy was a great dealer but when we asked how to know if we neded to balance the water he said you bring it in once a month for a free test. This caused my wife to think we should only deal with HS because this dealer is close by. Is this a HS marketing gimic or just this dealer?

3. HS Chemicals. Dealer said they are not chlorine, but another name I can not remember. Seems there are two additives needed; a couple teaspoons a week of this chlorene - like chemical and a Ozone additive that stays in the tub and is replaced every 4 months or so. Anyone know if these can only be purchased at HS and are these unique products to HS or could I use different additives that I bought over the internet?

BTW: THe HS tubs were significantly cheaper than Marques and include lights and waterfalls whereas the Marques really get pricey if you want more lights or water falls. We are wet testing D-1, Sundance, and Caldera this weekend . My eyes do glaze over just comparing models within a brand, but we are keeping notes.

This forum has been very helpful in our search. Thanks.

Diverters and air controllers are pretty standard in most tubs and should not be a problem to learn or get used to.

Most all dealers and pool/spa suppliers will offer water testing as it is their opportunity to sell their chemicals and water maintenance products. You can also get a test kit and learn the water maintenance thing yourself and purchase your products wherever you like.

The HS freshwater system is a mineral purifier and ozonator. Almost every major spa offers ozone and mineral cartridges. Alternately, Nature2 and Frog mineral cartridges are for sale almost everywhere. You can use the HS products or any others...whatever works best for you.

D1, Sundance, Caldera and Marquis are all top manufacturers as well as HS. You would be fine with any of these. Caldera is owned by Watkins which also owns HotSprings. They are built in different factories with very different philosophies. Caldera is not owned by HotSprings but more a sister company.

[Chas]

'JackVa1' "It looked like the leg position in the HS loungers was too low and might cause floating. The Marques dealt with this nicely with raised leg position in the lounger."

Not generally true - if it was, then you would float out of the upright seats as well, since they put your legs all the way down. I have heard many tub makers claim that their design keeps you from floating, but I haven't seen any that change the laws of physics: If you float, you float. The only way to keep from floating is to lower the water level (or raise the seating position) or set a no-float belt on your lap. Now, some tubs put in arm rests or foot rests which can help you hold yourself in, but the only way to know if those work for you is to try it wet. And having even a little less of your torso in the water makes a big difference. I'm a floater, but am losing weight and I find I now could own tub with a lounge seat - but this is not true for all folks. Some are just floaters, and some are just not. I generally do not sell lounge seats to second-time spa buyers.

My HS questions are:

"1. It seemed that the jets turned up in the HS actually moved us off the seats at time."

Yes, they can be very powerful, but you can turn them down, and you can also raise the water level to help with this. And of course, the smallest and largest of the HS jets can be swapped for spinners - not the big "JetStream" jets which are generally low in the tub.

Also, the air can be adjusted on every jet. This adds or subtracts UMPH (high tech word, don't you think?)

"Also between the diverters and air controllers, the HS tubs had a lot of controls to learn and almost too much tuning flexability."

You get to know your own tub once it's in your home. The variety allows you to find just the setting or settings you like, and you don't have to change them. I find most of our customers like the wide variety though, I know I do.

"2.Water testing? The guy was a great dealer but when we asked how to know if we neded to balance the water he said you bring it in once a month for a free test. This caused my wife to think we should only deal with HS because this dealer is close by. Is this a HS marketing gimic or just this dealer? "

HS sure encourages us to have a water lab in our stores to help the customers make it easier to live with their tubs, but I sure don't know of any reason you would have to make that many trips to the dealer. We teach our customers the simple care procedures, and they are off and running. It becomes second nature in a month or two - you certainly can call with questions or post here if you need help, but you should consider the dealer's offer to do free water tests a backup, not a requirement. In fact, call my store if you have questions, no matter what brand you purchase.

"3. HS Chemicals. Dealer said they are not chlorine, but another name I can not remember. Seems there are two additives needed; a couple teaspoons a week of this chlorene - like chemical "

This would be Monopersulphate, abbreviated MPS. It is also sold as "Oxidizer" and "Shock" under various brands. Here is a link to a brief article: MPS

MPS is more expensive than chlorine, but it can be combined with ozone and a Nature2 cartridge to allow you to soak chlorine free. You should still do a once a month chlorine shock, but that goes away in a day or so and the remainder of the time you can soak chlorine free.

"and an Ozone additive that stays in the tub and is replaced every 4 months or so. Anyone know if these can only be purchased at HS and are these unique products to HS or could I use different additives that I bought over the internet?"

This is a Nature2 cartridge. The ones made for HotSpring and Tiger River tubs are slightly different in design to fit into the filter tube. The contents are identical to the one sold through other dealers and online. You can use the yellow generic one in your HotSpring by attaching the little extensions which come with them to keep them from dropping down into the plumbing, they are a little harder to retrieve when the four months is up, but that is the only difference. Here is a link to Nature2/Zodiac

"BTW: THe HS tubs were significantly cheaper than Marquis and include lights and waterfalls whereas the Marquis really get pricey if you want more lights or water falls."

That will vary by market and by dealer. The HotSpring tubs are built by a much larger company who makes several other brands as well, is owned by a mega-conglomerate, and is 31 years old Put those two things together, and they tend to have better buying power for raw materials and parts. They are not always the most expensive, but even when they are they tend to be the most popular. That doesn't mean they are the best for you, is simply means more people bought them. They do tend to offer fewer options - what I mean is that besides color choices for shell and siding, they pretty much come the way you see them on the showroom floor: all the options are on all the tubs. The exception would be sound systems and remote controls, and the Tiger River spas add the ozone as an option.

Marquis is employee owned, and tries their best to keep prices down just like any other company in this competitive business. The dealer ultimately decides the pricing, the maker can only suggest.

"We are wet testing D-1, Sundance, and Caldera this weekend . My eyes do glaze over just comparing models within a brand, but we are keeping notes.

This forum has been very helpful in our search. Thanks."

Glad to help. Enjoy the wet tests: take your time. If there are removable/adjustable jets as in the HotSpring and Caldera, be sure you change them around. I know you mentioned above that you were beginning to feel overwhelmed with the variety and choices, but you will be glad of those choices once you narrow things down a bit.

Have fun, this will be a wonderful addition to your life.

[JackVa1]

Thanks, Chas and others.. Can not express the value of this forum to us.

Jack

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Caldera is a hot springs in disguise Hot spring owns them and picked them up for the shell molds and seating. watch the jets they are tiny and have a tendancy to feel piercing.

Sundance is okay I wouldn't consider a D-1 very overpriced

Caldera is not even close to a Hot Spring in disguise IMO. The spas themselves are very different and separate entities. If a customer didn't know of the affiliation they would never clue into in; it's not like we're talking about Chevy and Buick. Corporate may be the same guys but that is a good thing in many people's eyes in this case.

Sundance is a very good spa, better than "okay" IMO.

D1 is certainly not a cheap spa but they are also a good one. In fact thre're not the onyl spa (American or Canadian made) that has been described as "overpriced" but when a product is good often that becomes the knock.

[IL Parrothead]

Jack,

Trying to answer your questions:

My wife definitely floated on the HS lounger (Envoy, we tested). She did not float in the Marquis Adirondack chair (epic) or in the lounger on the Jacuzzi J480. So different loungers will make some people float, and others for other people. That's why wet testing is crucial.

My wife had the same impression about the HS diverters. She was confused by them and felt that she would have to get up from her seat and move half-way across the tub to adjust the seat she was sitting in. Also, she didn't like the way the diverters were configured. They seemed to adjust seats that were across from each other in the tub. She did like the Marquis Tri-Zone controls. While one diverter did adjust more than one seat, they split the tub in half, control-wise, which seemed a little more logical. I myself agree with some of the above postings. If it's your tub, you'll get used to it. Obviously, there are a lot of HS owners on these forums, and they're not complaining.

Finally, here in Chicago, Marquis is a little less expensive than HS.

Good luck!

[JackVa1]

Parrothead,

Interesting that you found Marquis cheaper.

I was comparing the Marquis Epic with the HS Grande. Maybe if I compared the Grade to the larger HS that has a lounger, I would have the same comparison. We found that to have an really long lounger and the wife and I are just not tall enough for it.

Jack

[David66]

Jack,

Trying to answer your questions:

My wife definitely floated on the HS lounger (Envoy, we tested). She did not float in the Marquis Adirondack chair (epic) or in the lounger on the Jacuzzi J480. So different loungers will make some people float, and others for other people. That's why wet testing is crucial.

My wife had the same impression about the HS diverters. She was confused by them and felt that she would have to get up from her seat and move half-way across the tub to adjust the seat she was sitting in. Also, she didn't like the way the diverters were configured. They seemed to adjust seats that were across from each other in the tub. She did like the Marquis Tri-Zone controls. While one diverter did adjust more than one seat, they split the tub in half, control-wise, which seemed a little more logical. I myself agree with some of the above postings. If it's your tub, you'll get used to it. Obviously, there are a lot of HS owners on these forums, and they're not complaining.

Finally, here in Chicago, Marquis is a little less expensive than HS.

Good luck!

I thought the Marquis Tri-zone thing was kinda cheesy. I mean, what if I wanted the jets on all of my legs instead of just one part? It smacked of them not having enough power to put the jets on all the time. You should try the lounger in a D1 Chairman II. It rocks. You can program it to do single areas at a time if you want. It will change them based on your programming preferences. Or you can turn them all on at once. All from a simple electronic control panel right next to your chair...no diverters to wrestle with. Now THAT'S the way it should be. Of all the tubs I tried, the Chairman II was the best, by far. I just decided I wanted room for more soakers instead of a lounger, but if I had wanted a lounger, that one would have been it.

I do remember being confused by some of the diverters in some of the models I tried. "Turn this diverter to that position, now you're sending the water to that diverter, and depending on the position of that diverter, seat 1 has action, or the feet have action", or whatever. The Sundance Optima, I think was one of them. Adjustability is great, but I felt at times like they were there to simply "mask" the fact that you can't have very much power at all the jets at all times. That's one of the reasons I went with the D1 Nautilus. It has 2 diverter valves, one on each side, located within reach of the seats on that side. Each of these valves simply diverts water to/from the corner seats on those sides. So, if you are in the "king" seat, you can easily from your seat send all the water from pump 2 to your seat (which by the way is a very powerful jet action if you do that). Or you can choose to send it all to the other corner seat, giving your friend/relative/wife or whomever is sitting in that seat at the time a true blast of jet action. Or, you can run it in the middle. In the middle setting the jet action is still very powerful in the seats the pump serves. That's one of the main reasons I chose the Nautilus, and it also has the adjustable jets so you can "turn down" the amount of water coming from each individual jet. You can also swap or replace the jets, choosing from 3 different types, so it DOES also allow for quite a bit of customization if that's your desire.

This is a good thing to pay attention to in your wet tests. Like I said, I felt the Optima was using all those diverters to hide the fact that when you have 6 people in the tub and you want things in a "medium" position so that EVERYONE gets a massage, what is that jet action like? I felt it was waaay underpowered. It was fine if you had things diverted to a certain seat. Watch your dealer as you wet test. Is he constantly moving around the outside of the tub adjusting those diverters for you? If so, he might be adjusting them so that as you move around in the tub to try different seats, he sends the water to the seat you're about to move to! You're fooled into thinking every seat in the tub has a great action, when in reality, they don't.

You're "stuck" with it once you get it...you might as well know what the different options for your diverters and jets are before you buy it.

Costwise, I'd say the Marquis are a bit overpriced compared to the others. The Epic was nice, but not 2 or 3 thousand more nice, to me. But I think they are well-made by a good company, so if you like a certain Marquis model, you'd be making a good buy for you! The Optima also demands a premium price at least in these parts. Although I felt their jets were too small, I do like their jets for the fact that they have a design that is less prone to the spinning jets getting "stuck". I was able to do more negotiating on the Calderas, Hot Springs and D1 models, but that could be a dealer-specific thing. I think an 8, 9, 10, 11 thousand dollar tub from any of those manufacturers is going to be a good tub...just test them out and decide on the tub that has the look, the features and the "feel" you want. Then negotiate. The economy is on a downward trend, during an election year. Use this to your advantage in your negotiations Once you settle on a model, do some searching on this forum and you'll discover what a "good" price is, at least allowing you to not get taken to the cleaners by a dealer who wants to take advantage of a customer's lack of knowledge. Remember, with hot tubs, there is no standard MSRP, so price research is a bit more important than other big-ticket items. In many cases, they know there's not another dealer with their brand of hot tub for miles, so they know you can't "price shop" very easily. But they do have margins to where they'll sometimes come down a bit if you seem knowledgeable or are interested in another brand/model and they know they have to compete (just make sure you're comparing apples to apples).

Good luck and let us know what you decide!

David

[thestallion]

David,

What you lack in your understanding is that the entry level Marquis do run all the jets at once just like D-1 but when you want to have 160 GPM of water to work your muscles in a deeper and much more comfortable way you can only run so many at once if you want comfortable strong hi flow jets. Perhaps you have never had a body massage by a masseuse but it is only one person working each muscle group one group at a time and the tri zone tries to mimic this.

[IL Parrothead]

I think an 8, 9, 10, 11 thousand dollar tub from any of those manufacturers is going to be a good tub...just test them out and decide on the tub that has the look, the features and the "feel" you want. Then negotiate.

I agree with that 100% Realistically, the HS, the Marquis & the Jacuzzi I've identified as the top 3 for my wife and me are within $1,000 of each other. They're all good. Go with what feels best and which dealer you know you'll have a good future relationship with. That's your best bet.

[David66]

David,

What you lack in your understanding is that the entry level Marquis do run all the jets at once just like D-1 but when you want to have 160 GPM of water to work your muscles in a deeper and much more comfortable way you can only run so many at once if you want comfortable strong hi flow jets. Perhaps you have never had a body massage by a masseuse but it is only one person working each muscle group one group at a time and the tri zone tries to mimic this.

I gave the Epic a very good test. I liked many aspects of it. Of course you can run all the jets at once, but they're not nearly as powerful as when you do the same thing in the D1 Nautilus, Diplomat or Chairman II (those are the 3 D1s I tried). When you want to have more power by isolating certain jets, the Chairman II allows you to do this, and does it in a way that I feel is superior to the Epic. To each his own, I guess. And I don't really understand your reference to an entry level Marquis. I wasn't talking about the entry level line. If I'm not satisfied with the jet action/power and Tri-Zone massage of the Epic, what about their entry level line should impress me?

David

[thestallion]

David,

What you lack in your understanding is that the entry level Marquis do run all the jets at once just like D-1 but when you want to have 160 GPM of water to work your muscles in a deeper and much more comfortable way you can only run so many at once if you want comfortable strong hi flow jets. Perhaps you have never had a body massage by a masseuse but it is only one person working each muscle group one group at a time and the tri zone tries to mimic this.

I gave the Epic a very good test. I liked many aspects of it. Of course you can run all the jets at once, but they're not nearly as powerful as when you do the same thing in the D1 Nautilus, Diplomat or Chairman II (those are the 3 D1s I tried). When you want to have more power by isolating certain jets, the Chairman II allows you to do this, and does it in a way that I feel is superior to the Epic. To each his own, I guess. And I don't really understand your reference to an entry level Marquis. I wasn't talking about the entry level line. If I'm not satisfied with the jet action/power and Tri-Zone massage of the Epic, what about their entry level line should impress me?

David

The entry level is just like the D-1 you can run all the jets without really comprising flow.....Of course this is inferior to the Epic but very much like the D-1 .....but as you say to each his own... I hope you enjoy your spa....

just one more thing that may a better example for you...the D-1 spa is a very good spa but the largest jet in the spa is rated for 16gpm of water flow....the Marquis with the Epic largest jet is rated at 40gpm of water flow or almost 3 times as much the D-1...now with that much flow to run all the jets at once you would need pumps that exceed what is practical for use in a above ground spa, so Marquis has a 3 way valve instead of what d-1 has which a 2 way and this allows to move the water though 4 jets at time to give a very strong but comfortable massage and to work muscle groups one at a time. The entry level Marquis does not have this feature and operates much more like a D-1....