New Keys Backyard Tub - Pump/electrical Issue?!? Please Help!

[Roger]

Actually a competent dealer with a proper service divsion would have parts with them and most likely would bring a pump for that particular tub. Since most of us have better thingsd to do with our days than repeated trips to house where a problem can be fixed the first time. If there is an electrical issue from the house, its pretty simple to co-ordinate the call to be there the same time as the electrician.

Thats what a dealer can do for you, not some guy on the phone 5 states away.

I always try and bring all new components with me for any brand I am working on. And I have flex, PVC, fittings and electrical stuff in the van. Being an independent it is a bit more difficult but depending where the call came from, direct or through a dealer I usualy pick up a few things before I make my appointment. I stock 4-5 different pumps and a couple generic controls and heaters and if the HP isn't right on the generic stuff I may still install a pump and advise.

[cplarsen]

So then, the discussion begs the question - what brands ARE good?

D1, Hot Springs, Sundance, Marquis, and Jacuzzi are probably the most recommended. There's a few others, but that will get you off to a good start.

If the price scares you (and it will after buying from Home Depot ), keep in mind many of the high end spa makers have lower priced companion lines without all the bells and whistles.

But be sure to wet test this time, and check out those dealer references.

[lys]

Actually a competent dealer with a proper service divsion would have parts with them and most likely would bring a pump for that particular tub. Since most of us have better thingsd to do with our days than repeated trips to house where a problem can be fixed the first time. If there is an electrical issue from the house, its pretty simple to co-ordinate the call to be there the same time as the electrician.

Thats what a dealer can do for you, not some guy on the phone 5 states away.

I always try and bring all new components with me for any brand I am working on. And I have flex, PVC, fittings and electrical stuff in the van. Being an independent it is a bit more difficult but depending where the call came from, direct or through a dealer I usualy pick up a few things before I make my appointment. I stock 4-5 different pumps and a couple generic controls and heaters and if the HP isn't right on the generic stuff I may still install a pump and advise.

Thank you all so much for the info and words o' wisdom. Maybe I was working more from anger than logic w/the return?

I'm going to call the dealer nearest us and see if their guys can fix it. I think it's time for a neutral party that won't care who was "right" the electrician or the company. Maybe their tech can sort it out. Then return if he thinks it was sent w/too much damage to make it worth the fix? I keep getting scared we'll mutilate the thing trying to tip it back up on the pallet.

Anyway, you're probably all very sick of me but I REALLY appreciate all your time and information. Thanks!!

[lys]

So then, the discussion begs the question - what brands ARE good?

D1, Hot Springs, Sundance, Marquis, and Jacuzzi are probably the most recommended. There's a few others, but that will get you off to a good start.

If the price scares you (and it will after buying from Home Depot ), keep in mind many of the high end spa makers have lower priced companion lines without all the bells and whistles.

But be sure to wet test this time, and check out those dealer references.

THANKS for the info!! Very good to know! Think we'll try the independent tech and if it's not worth repairing, we'll definitely look at the above.

Yes, I know HD was a lot cheaper than the name brands. If you factor in hassles though, I think they'd be worth it. So, I guess we'll see how it plays out.

Thank you again though for all the info and help. I really appreciate your time!

[B0Darc]

Hey, are you calling me a "rube?" You're exactly right, of course.

Apologies! Certainly not... and realize this discount sales business strategy is relatively new in terms of the History of Sales and Service. It relies on the business leadership believing they can mandate that employees care as a corporate policy. This relies on the mistaken notion that we are all caring people... pardon my cynicism, but it appears that YOU discovered first hand that is not the case. How long do you think an independent business person could survive with an attitude like that? That's why most businesses don't make it the first year. Always bet on human nature, you'll always win!

I was watching that show on Discovery Ch about the little merkats, and after observing how one will stand watch while the other members of the herd/flock/whatever dig in the ground to eat, that at first this seemed to be altruistic... the behavior was identical to showing care. After researching they discovered those taking turns watching for predators had full stomachs and were the first down the burrow when predators appeared. So while it had a beneficial survival factor for the group, in reality it was self serving. Are we in actuality so far from that? Who are the ones who are trying to convince us, that the dealer-based money-centric mode that drives the delivery of support is somehow evil or narcissistic? I say it's a million-years old compared to the much newer corporate strategy of policy mandated pseudo-altruism... "I'll make all the money and pay someone else to show the customer we care."

Wow! we're getting deep now! However I believe this is what we are subscribing to when we send all our business in that direction and settle for a lower level of Support in exchange for a lower price. I'm just trying to make it all clear what you are giving up. I mean these other stores like C0stco may have a money back guarantee, but that means if you are not happy then you have no spa, just your money back (?!)... that's not a good solution. Especially if TinyBubbles is correct and you only need to flip a selector switch to choose 120V or 240V in order to have joy. Luckily you are getting some care on HERE! {{Forum Hugs}} Now, please click on some of the links (G00gle Ad words) so poolspaforum can also stay in business

[DISCLAIMER] I do not now, nor have I ever worked for, nor in any manner represent, poolspaforum or any subsidiary...

[TinyBubbles]

Hey, this forum is here to help people. If anyone is sick of you, and I doubt they are, they can quit reading your posts. It's probably a wise decision to take a step back and a deep breath. Hopefully, it will be something simple to fix. I think it's a great idea getting someone to take a look at it. Maybe you have a great electrician that just made a simple mistake or maybe it's a simply spa issue that the tech can resolve. No matter what brand spa you bought, many dealers charge for a service call even when the spa is under warranty. If you do take your spa back and use a dealer, that is something to ask about. If you can fix your current problem, you will be out far less money than returning your spa and buying a "premium brand". If there are majore issues, I would return the spa, regardless if you replace it with the same spa or buy something different. Whichever route you take, please keep us informed and best of luck.

[flibotte]

For what it's worth the exact same thing happened to my parents 4 or 5 years ago when they got thier new HotSprings tub. So this kind of thing does happen and not just to big box stores. I think a motor and some pipe had to be replaced as it leaked in several places. Once repaired the tub worked fine.

I've owned a Keys tub for over 2 years and I am very happy with it. I would say the only drawback is it costs more in the colder months to operate than a higher end tub. This would be fairly easy to fix with adding some insulation. The only problem I had was with the 2 speed pump only working in one speed and I called the number and the help I received was very professional and they promtly sent someone out to replace without cost to me. I think it stinks that the guy on the phone was a jerk to you but I also think this could happen when you talk to any company. I think the notion that going to a dealer will solve all your problems isn't quite right. I think the specific dealer is only as good as who ever they send out to fix your tub if it breaks. I'm not saying I don't think you should bring it back, I think you should do what ever you think is right, but the hot tubs dealers good/big box stores bad was a bit much in some of these posts, IMO. I would keep in mind that a lot of the people on here are dealers, so you should probably take everything with a grain of salt. Either way I hope everything works out for you and you end up with a tub you can enjoy (where ever you get it from).

[IL Parrothead]

Tiny, yes I'm getting closer! I'm actually ready to buy. I just have to wait for the weather to break so my deadbeat friends can make my deck sturdy enough and trench for the electric.

[biggz]

lys, After reading your posts, it appears that you and Keys bucked heads from the very beginning. You first said that the tub came with a frozen pump and had 20 gallons of water once it thawed out. You implied that your absolutely sure that the electrician you hired installed the wiring correctly since he also wired your entire house and past inspection on the very first time. This confidence in his work apparently caused you do defend his workmanship thus causing a riff between you and the rep at Keys resulting in you having to speak with the supervisor. This riff was so intense that the rep told you to shut up and listen (very unprofessional), but you also admitted that you do have a tendency to talk to much. You admitted to me that you probably exaggerated the 20 gallon claim after I suggested this was not logical since the tub drained most of the water after being tested before it was prepare for shipping and they would've had to do this in sub freezing weather outside in Texas (which we all know is highly unlikely). I explained to you that the 12 represented a error in the electrical installation since if it was done correctly it would read 24. Your original post implied that this must be a common problem. It is, if the tub's electric is set up incorrectly. After reading several responses of those who feel the big box tubs are inferior, that only fueled your emotions further. I think there is blame on both sides. Keys test their tubs before shipping them out so if the controller was faulty I doubt they would have shipped that tub to you. Some posters seem to forget that Keys is the 3rd largest manufacturer of hot tub in the USA. They do get a lot of practice in making tubs. The tubs are shipped with a control number that basically tells them the tub went through the necessary paces prior to being shipped so if the rep told you it's the wiring he's probably basing this on that fact (the controller read 24 at the factory before they prepared it). But if your emotions were high because you wanted to surprise your family (I assume it was for the holidays) and he told you he couldn't ship a pump to you for a week that only got you further annoyed. I think you should get another electrician that has installed tubs to check the work of your electrician before calling an independent service tech. When my tub was installed, I hire a very good licensed electrician. He wired everything to code and when he was finished it didn't work. His assistant who did a couple of tub installations saw that he made an error with the ground in the GFCI box. I'm not saying this is your problem, but if the kid wasn't there this electrician would've probably told me that the controller was defective and I would've believed him. Dr Spa who is a forum Guru also said he's seen many licensed guys make mistakes installing tubs, so my first move would be to call a different electrician who's familiar with tub installations before I did anything. If the box is set up correctly you will know that it's not the electrical hook up. If he finds a mistake he'll correct it. The tub will read PR which means the pump is priming. After that it will read --F to give you the current water temperature and will start to heat the water to a default setting of 100*. You'll know if the pump is working then. If not, contact keys and have them schedule a tech to replace the pump. They will overnight the part to you and you won't have to pay a dime. Let us know how it goes. I hope it works out for you. Crow doesn't taste that bad with a little salt and good marinade.

[TinyBubbles]

Biggz, we had a similiar situation. I had completely forgotten about it until I told my hubby about this post over the weekend. I wish I had remembered sooner, it could have helped Lys. When we tried to start up our tub, we just got a clicking noise as well. Ends up, we also had an issue with the wiring inside the GFCI. Apparently, there is something different in their wiring than in most wiring or other gfci boxes. Everyone makes mistakes, so it's very possible her electrician was more than qualified, but just had a little snafu in this case.

[TinyBubbles]

Tiny, yes I'm getting closer! I'm actually ready to buy. I just have to wait for the weather to break so my deadbeat friends can make my deck sturdy enough and trench for the electric.

Real friends would not be deterred by rain or sleet or dead of night! What tub are you leaning towards?

[biggz]

Biggz, we had a similiar situation. I had completely forgotten about it until I told my hubby about this post over the weekend. I wish I had remembered sooner, it could have helped Lys. When we tried to start up our tub, we just got a clicking noise as well. Ends up, we also had an issue with the wiring inside the GFCI. Apparently, there is something different in their wiring than in most wiring or other gfci boxes. Everyone makes mistakes, so it's very possible her electrician was more than qualified, but just had a little snafu in this case.

Yes Tiny, It happens on occasion. The brand of tub has nothing to do with it. Biggz

[soakme]

As far as the electrical issue goes, I will add my two cents here... I have seen situations where all the voltages look correct, but the appliance does not operate under load (when turned on)... our 240 dryer wasn't drying right... everything else in the house seemed OK, but only the light in the dryer seemed to work... turned out to be loose connection on one side where the juice comes into the house (the electric company's side of the meter)... your electrician said the voltage looked low on one side at the spa panel... I'm assuming the spa was on and trying to draw current... investigate if your other appliances (particulary 240v) are working right... where is wireman when we need him?

[lys]

lys, After reading your posts, it appears that you and Keys bucked heads from the very beginning. You first said that the tub came with a frozen pump and had 20 gallons of water once it thawed out. You implied that your absolutely sure that the electrician you hired installed the wiring correctly since he also wired your entire house and past inspection on the very first time. This confidence in his work apparently caused you do defend his workmanship thus causing a riff between you and the rep at Keys resulting in you having to speak with the supervisor. This riff was so intense that the rep told you to shut up and listen (very unprofessional), but you also admitted that you do have a tendency to talk to much. You admitted to me that you probably exaggerated the 20 gallon claim after I suggested this was not logical since the tub drained most of the water after being tested before it was prepare for shipping and they would've had to do this in sub freezing weather outside in Texas (which we all know is highly unlikely). I explained to you that the 12 represented a error in the electrical installation since if it was done correctly it would read 24. Your original post implied that this must be a common problem. It is, if the tub's electric is set up incorrectly. After reading several responses of those who feel the big box tubs are inferior, that only fueled your emotions further. I think there is blame on both sides. Keys test their tubs before shipping them out so if the controller was faulty I doubt they would have shipped that tub to you. Some posters seem to forget that Keys is the 3rd largest manufacturer of hot tub in the USA. They do get a lot of practice in making tubs. The tubs are shipped with a control number that basically tells them the tub went through the necessary paces prior to being shipped so if the rep told you it's the wiring he's probably basing this on that fact (the controller read 24 at the factory before they prepared it). But if your emotions were high because you wanted to surprise your family (I assume it was for the holidays) and he told you he couldn't ship a pump to you for a week that only got you further annoyed. I think you should get another electrician that has installed tubs to check the work of your electrician before calling an independent service tech. When my tub was installed, I hire a very good licensed electrician. He wired everything to code and when he was finished it didn't work. His assistant who did a couple of tub installations saw that he made an error with the ground in the GFCI box. I'm not saying this is your problem, but if the kid wasn't there this electrician would've probably told me that the controller was defective and I would've believed him. Dr Spa who is a forum Guru also said he's seen many licensed guys make mistakes installing tubs, so my first move would be to call a different electrician who's familiar with tub installations before I did anything. If the box is set up correctly you will know that it's not the electrical hook up. If he finds a mistake he'll correct it. The tub will read PR which means the pump is priming. After that it will read --F to give you the current water temperature and will start to heat the water to a default setting of 100*. You'll know if the pump is working then. If not, contact keys and have them schedule a tech to replace the pump. They will overnight the part to you and you won't have to pay a dime. Let us know how it goes. I hope it works out for you. Crow doesn't taste that bad with a little salt and good marinade.

Oh! I think I'm just not being very clear!! And I'm CERTAINLY willing to eat crow when necessary - I'd love some with a margarita in a working hot tub!! Beleive me I'd be thrilled to fine out it's something simple and reparable. It'd eat crow flambe and or crow a la mode! I just want the thing to work. And yes I was probably a total basket case after several calls to Keys and being told over and over again that I couldn't possibly have a problem with their equipment.

To clarify though, NO, I did NOT exaggerate the water at all. What I said was that I didn't MEASURE it. It could very well have been 20 gallons! I think probably more We thawed the plumbing out and the entire center of the spa where your feet go was filled up to the inlet/outlet drains. I'd still say at least 20 - just can't be sure because I am horrible at math and all things spatial. But that foot section is what maybe a circle 3 feet across (? GUESSING) and it was at least 4 inches deep - again bottom of the outlet. So maybe someone with rudimentry math skills would be able to figure out a gallon estimate. If it's not 20 - fine dish the crow - but it seems like a lot MORE than should have been there and was most certainly frozen solid in the bottom of the tub. (Pump side down - so in the pump and pipes) We had two heaters running under the tub for hours.

Again, I'm not exaggerating or trying to be dishonest, I just super suck at math.

I don't have a clue as to when it froze - I'm telling you I don't think they ever drained it. I agree it's not logical to think it could have frozen in Texas. I'm not sure they get freezing weather there. I DO think what happened was they left water in - someone didn't open the little drain valve on the pump when it was crated or something, I don't know - but however it got there, it all settled in the bottom and was absolutely frozen solid when it hit Colorado or anywhere in between. It was subzero when they delivered it to my house and had been all week before we could set the thing.

(This also made me wonder if they sold us a refurbished tub rather than new? DO they do that? The date on the control box says 2006. Maybe it just sat in the factory that long.) Again, I do not know. I just know it was frozen. I also know that I probably didn't explain things about the wiring. After the error message (12 as opposed to the 24) pops up, it does go to PR mode and the --F reading. Then it reads the temp. It just does not proceed to pump water or heat up from there. Something in the panel clicks, but the pump does not turn on. Again though, the GFCI doesn't trip. The wires are all hot coming to the tub. It is also on its own dedicated breaker from the box at the house. No other draw made on 6 wire - everything's overkill. Yada, yada, yada.

I don't know if faulty wiring could do that. It would be the very easiest solution if the electrician did miss something! And frankly I'd be thrilled if that were the case.

So after all this what I'm wondering is this: The pump came frozen, which was obviously not apparent right off the bat. We got the error 12 message and also the IC message. Then the PR and --F and a click and nothing.

So if the pump was frozen, maybe the hot tub TRIED to run and it blew a fuse or soemthing to save the pump? And now that the pump is no longer embedded in ice, which would certainly act as a major obstruction, if the proper fuse were replaced maybe it can run again...?

Also if they DID test it at the factory (and the thus-far-unmeasured amount of water left in aboard suggests they did) and it assumedly worked when they sent it, doesn't the freeze a pump/fry-something scenario make sense that their factory reading of perfection is no longer valid? And yes, Mr. Keys supervisor guy might have been completely correct with his info, but I could not get him to see that there MIGHT be more going on here than the wiring.

So yeah, at this point I am getting more help. The nearest spa tech folk are too busy to come out indefinitely. So getting another electrician to come test the panel and other guys work, and if he can't fix it there's another spa guy further away I'll see if I can get out. And if anybody finds something major I'll call Keys and try to convince Mr. Keys Supervisor to send a tech.

Or I'll just fill the dumb thing with goldfish and re-up my membership at the hot springs. :-)

[lys]

Biggz, we had a similiar situation. I had completely forgotten about it until I told my hubby about this post over the weekend. I wish I had remembered sooner, it could have helped Lys. When we tried to start up our tub, we just got a clicking noise as well. Ends up, we also had an issue with the wiring inside the GFCI. Apparently, there is something different in their wiring than in most wiring or other gfci boxes. Everyone makes mistakes, so it's very possible her electrician was more than qualified, but just had a little snafu in this case.

Thanks for the info Tiny. Our control panel comes up , but something in the circuit board itself clicks rather than firing the pump. No jets or pump or heater. Just the little readings on the control panel.

I'll pass it on your info to second electrician when he comes - weather permitting - tomorrow. Of course it's snowing and snowing...

Thanks again for the input! I appreciate your taking the time to pass on the info.

[lys]

As far as the electrical issue goes, I will add my two cents here... I have seen situations where all the voltages look correct, but the appliance does not operate under load (when turned on)... our 240 dryer wasn't drying right... everything else in the house seemed OK, but only the light in the dryer seemed to work... turned out to be loose connection on one side where the juice comes into the house (the electric company's side of the meter)... your electrician said the voltage looked low on one side at the spa panel... I'm assuming the spa was on and trying to draw current... investigate if your other appliances (particulary 240v) are working right... where is wireman when we need him?

THanks for the idea. We don't notice any other problems - three girls at home so the dryer runs ridiculously often - and house is pretty new. Also dedicated circuit for the hot tub if that matters. <SHRUG>

Thank you for the idea though!

[lys]

For what it's worth the exact same thing happened to my parents 4 or 5 years ago when they got thier new HotSprings tub. So this kind of thing does happen and not just to big box stores. I think a motor and some pipe had to be replaced as it leaked in several places. Once repaired the tub worked fine.

I've owned a Keys tub for over 2 years and I am very happy with it. I would say the only drawback is it costs more in the colder months to operate than a higher end tub. This would be fairly easy to fix with adding some insulation. The only problem I had was with the 2 speed pump only working in one speed and I called the number and the help I received was very professional and they promtly sent someone out to replace without cost to me. I think it stinks that the guy on the phone was a jerk to you but I also think this could happen when you talk to any company. I think the notion that going to a dealer will solve all your problems isn't quite right. I think the specific dealer is only as good as who ever they send out to fix your tub if it breaks. I'm not saying I don't think you should bring it back, I think you should do what ever you think is right, but the hot tubs dealers good/big box stores bad was a bit much in some of these posts, IMO. I would keep in mind that a lot of the people on here are dealers, so you should probably take everything with a grain of salt. Either way I hope everything works out for you and you end up with a tub you can enjoy (where ever you get it from).

Thanks very much for the info and perspective! I do appreciate it.

[biggz]

So yeah, at this point I am getting more help. The nearest spa tech folk are too busy to come out indefinitely. So getting another electrician to come test the panel and other guys work, and if he can't fix it there's another spa guy further away I'll see if I can get out. And if anybody finds something major I'll call Keys and try to convince Mr. Keys Supervisor to send a tech.

Or I'll just fill the dumb thing with goldfish and re-up my membership at the hot springs. :-)

lys, I don't think your being dishonest at all. I really want to see you in hot water like the rest of us. It could have been 20 gallons or close to that. I do think your going in the right direction to have another electrician check the work as a 1st step. As I said, if he doesn't find anything wrong with the initial installation, call Keys. Why waste time and money with an independent tech. Have the electrician write a brief note on his letterhead verifying that the wiring is done correctly, fax it to there office and demand that they send their tech to check the panel and the pump. If the tech finds a problem he'll let them know and they will ship the necessary parts to you and have him return to install them. It's unfortunate that you found this out after accepting delivery. You could have rejected the delivery if you knew there may have been problems and they would have sent another tub. Again I'm sorry if I offended you. That's not my intention. I know I would be mad as hell if I went through what your going through. I would have put a diaper on and jumped in my car like the astronaut.

[lys]

So yeah, at this point I am getting more help. The nearest spa tech folk are too busy to come out indefinitely. So getting another electrician to come test the panel and other guys work, and if he can't fix it there's another spa guy further away I'll see if I can get out. And if anybody finds something major I'll call Keys and try to convince Mr. Keys Supervisor to send a tech.

Or I'll just fill the dumb thing with goldfish and re-up my membership at the hot springs. :-)

lys, I don't think your being dishonest at all. I really want to see you in hot water like the rest of us. It could have been 20 gallons or close to that. I do think your going in the right direction to have another electrician check the work as a 1st step. As I said, if he doesn't find anything wrong with the initial installation, call Keys. Why waste time and money with an independent tech. Have the electrician write a brief note on his letterhead verifying that the wiring is done correctly, fax it to there office and demand that they send their tech to check the panel and the pump. If the tech finds a problem he'll let them know and they will ship the necessary parts to you and have him return to install them. It's unfortunate that you found this out after accepting delivery. You could have rejected the delivery if you knew there may have been problems and they would have sent another tub. Again I'm sorry if I offended you. That's not my intention. I know I would be mad as hell if I went through what your going through. I would have put a diaper on and jumped in my car like the astronaut.

Oh no, no, no!! You did not offend me at ALL Biggz!!!!! You've been terrific. I GREATLY appreciate the perspective! When something like this is this so confuzzling and infuriating it's hard to maintain any clarity. In this whole thing I've not ever been quite sure I'm understanding thoroughly or being understood.

Anyway, you've made some excellent points and please know I do appreciate them. I'm not even the LEAST bit offended and certainly don't mind you, or anyone, pointing out a perspective I've missed or that I've acted irrationally or over reacted...! (Who me? ) I know this about me, so no worries.

Love the astronaut reference, BTW. Too funny!

Again, excellent suggestion. Hoping electrician makes it here today. Snow quit so maybe! Will update when I know. And really, I do thank you!

So a great idea to have the electricians info faxed to Keys. I'd have never thought of that.

[soakme]

As far as the electrical issue goes, I will add my two cents here... I have seen situations where all the voltages look correct, but the appliance does not operate under load (when turned on)... our 240 dryer wasn't drying right... everything else in the house seemed OK, but only the light in the dryer seemed to work... turned out to be loose connection on one side where the juice comes into the house (the electric company's side of the meter)... your electrician said the voltage looked low on one side at the spa panel... I'm assuming the spa was on and trying to draw current... investigate if your other appliances (particulary 240v) are working right... where is wireman when we need him?

THanks for the idea. We don't notice any other problems - three girls at home so the dryer runs ridiculously often - and house is pretty new. Also dedicated circuit for the hot tub if that matters. <SHRUG>

Thank you for the idea though!

OK, if the dryer is working well, any wiring problem is probably confined to the hot tub branch... do a google search and try to find the balboa_service_manual.pdf... this has step by step instructions for checking the wiring... also note that you need to know whether you are supposed to have a dedicated 240v circuit or a convertible 120/240 circuit... these are wired differently...

[biggz]

OK, if the dryer is working well, any wiring problem is probably confined to the hot tub branch... do a google search and try to find the balboa_service_manual.pdf... this has step by step instructions for checking the wiring... also note that you need to know whether you are supposed to have a dedicated 240v circuit or a convertible 120/240 circuit... these are wired differently...

Soakme, the instructions said "the spa should be located near a power source capable of supplying 220 to 240 volts AC power. It must be wired directly into a grounded circuit with a 50-amp circuit breaker and a GFCI capable of carrying 50 amps. No other appliances should be on the same circuit". So I guess that means it's dedicated.

lys, I know this is a dumb question, but do you currently have water in the tub and did you have a full tub when this all started? I appears that it's pretty cold where you are. Biggz

[lys]

OK, if the dryer is working well, any wiring problem is probably confined to the hot tub branch... do a google search and try to find the balboa_service_manual.pdf... this has step by step instructions for checking the wiring... also note that you need to know whether you are supposed to have a dedicated 240v circuit or a convertible 120/240 circuit... these are wired differently...

Soakme, the instructions said "the spa should be located near a power source capable of supplying 220 to 240 volts AC power. It must be wired directly into a grounded circuit with a 50-amp circuit breaker and a GFCI capable of carrying 50 amps. No other appliances should be on the same circuit". So I guess that means it's dedicated.

lys, I know this is a dumb question, but do you currently have water in the tub and did you have a full tub when this all started? I appears that it's pretty cold where you are. Biggz

Not a dumb question! When we first got it hooked up, we filled per instructions then tried the priming sequence. It did it's 137, 61 (I think) 24 and 12. There was also an IC error reading, then the PR and --F. Click in the circuit and no flow from the jets or pump noise. So re-read manual, which said if it shows 12 to call them. Day before X-mas and no answer. So we pumped the water out with a pump and vaccume towel dried.

When hubby went to drain the pump he couldn't unscrew the drain plugs. Thought, what the....? Opened up the pipe that goes down into the pump and that's when we saw the ice - there was a good 2-3 inch ring of ice there up out of the pump into the pipe - if that makes any sense. Couldn't get the drain open because it was frozen solid. So we took two space heaters and stuck them under the cabinet, tented it with blankets and tarps to keep the heat in. Several hours later - I think at least 5-6 - that's when the unmeasured water showed up in the foot area, drains opened in the pump and we vaccumed all the water out. We left the heaters running through the night and the next day. We had the inside surface of the tub really warm - which only made me wish it worked more. <dorky grin> So I'm sure there's nothing left in there now.

[TinyBubbles]

Hi lys, I think your most recent post had significant info. Unless I missed it, I haven't seen you mention the IC error code before. I went to Balboa's site, the IC code means that a potential freeze problem has been detected and ice in the system has been detected. 44°F (6.7°C) or Lower has been Detected at the Lowest Temp Sensor, or the Aux Freeze Switch has Closed, and All Pumps and Blower are Activated. All Pumps and Blower are ON for at least 4 Minutes After Temp is 45°F (7.2°C) or Above at the Sensors, or when the Aux Freeze Switch Opens. This is an Operational Message, Not an Error Indication. Either wait for the Potential Freeze Condition to End, or contact your Dealer or Service Organization. Sounds like maybe you could have warmed things up with the water still in the tub and things would have been operational after it warmed above 45 degrees. Sounds like a weather situation, not a brand related issue. Of course the click, to me, sounds like a wiring problem in addition to everything else. Maybe the freeze situation caused something to trip or maybe it's also wired wrong. Although, if you told the phone tech. about the IC code, he should have been able to tell you what the situation was. Did you mention this? You seemed more focused on the 12 reading than the IC code here, but your phone conversation might have been different. If I were you I would contact balboa by email or phone and tell them what's up. They are so helpful, I just love Balboa. If you are worried about what your new spa has been through, return it. Personally, I wouldn't be at all concerned about replacing it with the same spa. Good Luck.

[B0Darc]

Wow Miss you have one hot topic! When you fix enough stuff you get to see some really bizarre problems... it's worse when it's something obscured. This should not be the case with electricity, although performing a load test may be required, and it's difficult to load up a 240V drop (read: plug in a major appliance etc.!) Now is the time we hope you didn't also get a "discount" electrician because you need to escalate this request to his Management or threaten to call for a second opinion, which you will bill back to that first company... the one that could not deliver on what you paid for... a working electrical connection. The Keyes Spa guy should have felt his own liability because if *I* called for a second opinion and it turned out the connection was 100% then I would charge that back to Keyes... on the basis he refused to accept responsibility until you proved otherwise, so when you do prove otherwise he picks up the tab as he was proven negligent in holding up his end of the contract to deliver a working spa, and refused to perform due diligence.

Load testing your connection could be achieved with a portable device requiring 220-240. Ever seen one of those huge (blower) heaters? ...like they would use on a construction site? The Keyes guy may have been speaking from experience, and it may have been your electrician who was being too stubborn to double check his work... even when it all looked operational. It does sound like a loose connection that fails under load, and other people's experience wiring these specialized GFCI spa breakers have said it doesn't exactly work like the same residential GFCI wiring. Good luck with your second opinion today... You *will* be sipping that mahgerita in a bubbly tub soon enough. Hey and look at all the friends you made! Party at Lys'!

[B0Darc]

Oh and <ahem> if you go back into C0stco in person they have Piper-Heidsieck (French) Champagne for ~$28 a bottle which is a good deal. If your budget allows you can certainly splurge, but experience says you can't beat a chilly bottle of Piper with anything less than Dom Perignon. If $13 is more your price range Piper also makes a nice American champagne... Piper-Sonoma. If you get this thing going today you WILL want to celebrate... a mahgerita may not be sufficient and I may have to defer to TinyBubbles recommendation of champagne brand ...I mean, after all, she is "tiny bubbles"