Roger Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Rog, Nice adle-minded attempt to belittle me. I am happy to hear of your illustrious career as an accomplished all knowing-all brands spa repair person. Umm, I am a department head for one of the largest mechanical contractors in the country, sorry to burst your bubble. Pool and Spa repair has been a side line of me and my brother for 25 years. I certainly don't need to justify my purchase like you imply. I'm sure you are perfectly able to accomplish your spa repairs as could most any able bodied licensed BSME. It seems to me like you are trying to justify your purchase. As a matter of fact I don't have enough time as my primary job is 10-12 hours a day and I need my weekends, and am turning customers away almost daily. Sorry you are so upset that from an engineer's standpoint galvanized steel is a far better structural material for hot tub frame design. Stick to what you do for a living, fixing hot tubs. How many galvanized steel frames have you repaired ever ?? I have fixed just as many galvinized steel frames as I have wood frames. This is one area on a hot tub that simply never needs repair. Sorry you missed that as your engineer mind was purchasing. But I understand, because a salesman for a steel framed hot tub certainly isn't going to mention it. I'll stick to what I do and know, equipment design and development. Personally I feel quite confident that I once my warranty period is over I won't need to be calling a spa repairman to perform any service work for me. FYI I don't own a Maax Spa (yes that is the correct spelling) I own a Clearwater 9100 Ultra which I am quite satisfied with. I looked at the Coleman Maax built spas before buying the Clearwater, I know they do have a nice galvanized steel frame like the Clearwater does. Like it or not these galvanized metal frames are the current wave of the future in spas. OK stick with what you do best, What kind of equipment was that you were designing anyway? You never did mention that. You are the one who started throwing around the engineer thing and my attemp to belittle you as you called it was another assumtion on your part. Your claim to fame in an earlier post was to somehow tell me your smarter than?????? Unless your a hot tub frame engineer and can tell me the vertical load limit of the paper thin galvinized steel studs with holes drilled in them in a wet invironment, versus the vertical load limit of the treated wood 2x4 studs in most quality brands. There simply is no reason for you to be claiming, especialy as an engineer (but I guess it could be toilet paper you are engineering) that steel is superior. I will start again. Steel is fine for a Hot Tub frame, but no better than wood. I feel wood is better because it's quieter, doesn't conduct electricity, and won't rust. And it has 5 times the horizontal load capacity as steel framing. (but I wish I had better numbers on both vertical and horizontal load capacitys) And as an engineer I can't believe YOU haven't looked that up or slung it off the top of your head! Maax and the Coleman line is a fine tub, but not in the top,,,,,,I say about 8 IMO If you would like spauser you can again give us your opinion short and sweet, but IMO it has less value no matter what your occupation unless you tell me why you think it's better, not that your an engineer and you said so. Your turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spa User Guy Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 OK stick with what you do best, What kind of equipment was that you were designing anyway? You never did mention that. You are the one who started throwing around the engineer thing and my attemp to belittle you as you called it was another assumtion on your part. Your claim to fame in an earlier post was to somehow tell me your smarter than?????? Unless your a hot tub frame engineer and can tell me the vertical load limit of the paper thin galvinized steel studs with holes drilled in them in a wet invironment, versus the vertical load limit of the treated wood 2x4 studs in most quality brands. There simply is no reason for you to be claiming, especialy as an engineer (but I guess it could be toilet paper you are engineering) that steel is superior. I will start again. Steel is fine for a Hot Tub frame, but no better than wood. I feel wood is better because it's quieter, doesn't conduct electricity, and won't rust. And it has 5 times the horizontal load capacity as steel framing. (but I wish I had better numbers on both vertical and horizontal load capacitys) And as an engineer I can't believe YOU haven't looked that up or slung it off the top of your head! Maax and the Coleman line is a fine tub, but not in the top,,,,,,I say about 8 IMO If you would like spauser you can again give us your opinion short and sweet, but IMO it has less value no matter what your occupation unless you tell me why you think it's better, not that your an engineer and you said so. Your turn. Not sure quite where you are getting your information on wood having a 5 time greater horizontal load capacity as square metal tube. This is not quite accurate information. With regards to metal structural stength compared to wood, go down to your local library and maybe they have some literature that may help you understand where I am coming from. Some helpful reading for you would be to research the ASTM standards (American Society for Testing and Materials) some examples for wood standards are D2915-03, D2555-06 & D45-06 from there you can also find the ASTM standards for square metal tubing. The ASTM standards are what I rely on for complete accuracy with regards to performing calculations based on strength properties of materials. I think this may prove to particularly interesting to you. In addition with steel you don't have other issues to worry about such as warping, splitting, insect infestation, molding, rotting, degregation by rodents, moisture absorbtion. In addition the fasteners used for wood (wood screws and nails) are not going to hold as well as metal screws or rivets over the long haul. As far as noise goes my steel framed tub doesn't make any at all and is solid as a rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brulan1 Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Not sure quite where you are getting your information on wood having a 5 time greater horizontal load capacity as square metal tube. This is not quite accurate information. With regards to metal structural stength compared to wood, go down to your local library and maybe they have some literature that may help you understand where I am coming from. Some helpful reading for you would be to research the ASTM standards (American Society for Testing and Materials) some examples for wood standards are D2915-03, D2555-06 & D45-06 from there you can also find the ASTM standards for square metal tubing. The ASTM standards are what I rely on for complete accuracy with regards to performing calculations based on strength properties of materials. I think this may prove to particularly interesting to you. In addition with steel you don't have other issues to worry about such as warping, splitting, insect infestation, molding, rotting, degregation by rodents, moisture absorbtion. In addition the fasteners used for wood (wood screws and nails) are not going to hold as well as metal screws or rivets over the long haul. As far as noise goes my steel framed tub doesn't make any at all and is solid as a rock. AMEN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spatech (the unreal one) Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 AMEN! Use of a steel frame in a spa = good sales pitch. That doesn't mean it's inferior or superior, it just explains it's MAIN purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Not sure quite where you are getting your information on wood having a 5 time greater horizontal load capacity as square metal tube. This is not quite accurate information. With regards to metal structural stength compared to wood, go down to your local library and maybe they have some literature that may help you understand where I am coming from. Some helpful reading for you would be to research the ASTM standards (American Society for Testing and Materials) some examples for wood standards are D2915-03, D2555-06 & D45-06 from there you can also find the ASTM standards for square metal tubing. The ASTM standards are what I rely on for complete accuracy with regards to performing calculations based on strength properties of materials. I think this may prove to particularly interesting to you. In addition with steel you don't have other issues to worry about such as warping, splitting, insect infestation, molding, rotting, degregation by rodents, moisture absorbtion. In addition the fasteners used for wood (wood screws and nails) are not going to hold as well as metal screws or rivets over the long haul. As far as noise goes my steel framed tub doesn't make any at all and is solid as a rock. OK I will look up these Standerds your listing. Can you tell me if they have anything to do with Hot Tubs and the thin metal they use for those frames and save me some time. Or do I have to read a million pages to find out it isn't even close to what's used in a hot tub. I'm glad you did some research but if it don't pertain what good is it? If you read closely you will see I stated 5 times stronger asking for specifics. I have bent metal studs over my knee and seen them rusty with loose rivets and screws. I have seen loose screws in a wood frame also but I cannot bend a 2x4 over my knee.....real world. Try it. Give me your address I will send you a sample of each to bend for yourself. Solid as a rock just like the wood frame tubs out there your saying? Cause if so what's the point of this argument? I have told you several times there is no advantage to either. Wood makes a great Hot Tub frame. Steel also makes a great Hot Tub frame. They have both proven to outlast the tub they are supporting. Your claim of superiority by steel is simply not true. Yet you continue to push it as the savior to a frame material that will self destruct, wood. I don't get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 This person's question has never been answered. Although the debate about wood vs steel is a very good one, perhaps a new thread should be made. I do not know much about the spa in question in the topic but I would think the original poster would appreciate answers to HIS question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 In addition with steel you don't have other issues to worry about such as warping, splitting, insect infestation, molding, rotting, degregation by rodents, moisture absorbtion. In addition the fasteners used for wood (wood screws and nails) are not going to hold as well as metal screws or rivets over the long haul. As far as noise goes my steel framed tub doesn't make any at all and is solid as a rock. And how many wood frame tubs have you seen that any of these things are an issue on.? Warping and splitting, I have worked on 100's maybe even thousands of wood framed tubs and this has never been an issue. Bugs and mice could care less whether it's wood or steel....it's warm. I have seen some 10-15 year old value tubs that had rotting issues on the wood base due to poor drainage around them...but a steel framed tub in the same situation would of rusted also. Loose screws I have never ever seen because of a wood frame. But I have seen deteriorated rivets on a steel framed tub that causes rattling. Hmmm not sure where your information is coming from, unless it's a book. Any of you other techs around the country out there ever see these issues stated above with a wood framed tub?. How about steel any issues? How about this.......if you back into the side of your tub a wood framed tub it will be easier to fix with a hammer and a nail. On a steel framed tub you have to hire a welder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brulan1 Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 Use of a steel frame in a spa = good sales pitch. That doesn't mean it's inferior or superior, it just explains it's MAIN purpose. You don't need to explain, I already said Amen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spatech (the unreal one) Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 You don't need to explain, I already said Amen! Since you sell them, I'm glad you honestly agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brulan1 Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 Since you sell them, I'm glad you honestly agree. Using steel in any spa makes logical sense. It even costs more to manufactur. I don't think manufacturers wanted to spend more just to put it in a sales pitch. A little more R&D was put into the hot tubs using steel. With the sales pitch aside, what is stronger and more durable? You obviously know the answer, Roger that? You will be whistling a different tune when your hot tubs do steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spatech (the unreal one) Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 You will be whistling a different tune when your hot tubs do steel. I won't be whistling a different tune at all for any spa mker that makes the change. I'll be saying the same thing I've been saying, "they wanted the better sales pitch". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 I won't be whistling a different tune at all for any spa mker that makes the change. I'll be saying the same thing I've been saying, "they wanted the better sales pitch". I will be in the same boat. As much as those who sell steel frame spas want us to think they are better/stronger/more durable, the fact of the matter is in this application it simply does not matter. Wood works great and holds up for the life of any well manufactured tub. Steel also works great but has no advantages over wood except marketing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brulan1 Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 I will be in the same boat. As much as those who sell steel frame spas want us to think they are better/stronger/more durable, the fact of the matter is in this application it simply does not matter. Wood works great and holds up for the life of any well manufactured tub. Steel also works great but has no advantages over wood except marketing. I would say the same thing if my tubs were manufactured with wood. I don't blame you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spatech (the unreal one) Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 I would say the same thing if my tubs were manufactured with wood. I don't blame you This coming from the guy who reasoned that full foam spas develop issues with rigid plumbing breaking over time because it doesn't flex like thermopane spas? We're happy that we don't necessarily think alike. The big difference between us is when I walk to people about spas I don't have note cards that I work off of. If Coleman used burlap bags for siding you'd have a spin on how that's the new craze in the industry as they allow the spa to breath and keep the air fresh to the jets thus eliminating the chance of Legionaires Disease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Visionair Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Mod fight!!!!! <-----grabs coke and popcorn, and sits back to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spatech (the unreal one) Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Mod fight!!!!! <-----grabs coke and popcorn, and sits back to watch. Nah, no fight going on. Brulan is more entertaining than anything and the whole steel frame as a Marketing tool isn't upsetting to anyone. We're just tossing out opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brulan1 Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Nah, no fight going on. Brulan is more entertaining than anything and the whole steel frame as a Marketing tool isn't upsetting to anyone. We're just tossing out opinions. I have to admit that you do have a sense a humor now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spatech (the unreal one) Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 I have to admit that you do have a sense a humor now. Heck, some of your posts have me doubled over in pain from laughter!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brulan1 Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 Heck, some of your posts have me doubled over in pain from laughter!! Just keep it real Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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