Pilates H20 Xp1 First Impressions

[soakerman]

Hey Soaker -- why don't you take a look at the new thread started about a Keys backyard spa purchased from Home Depot? Same type of product Costco has carried. Never heard of that kind of problem from the "Dealer Sold Spas".

You instead hear of dealers charging high prices and rotten service or no service with no return policy. The keys issue with a dealer spa would be the same as the person has yet to call customer service and unless a dealer is telepathic then the issue would be their reguardless of the brand.

This is what they said in the original thread post:

I asked them to send me a panel - he told me a two week delay and that they'd just send a tech. And that I'd be charged for it since he's sure it's our wiring, but that the tech wouldn't check the wiring itself since he's not licensed [/b]What would a dealer do more then what they offered already? We hear this alot from dealer sold spas. Look at the tiger river drain issue on this forum and tell me that.The poster needs to let the service tech look at the spa and not listen to you the naysayer and think a dealer would be a better option. Thank god he didn't get this spa through a dealer or he would never be able to return it!

[Roger]

Hey Soaker -- why don't you take a look at the new thread started about a Keys backyard spa purchased from Home Depot? Same type of product Costco has carried. Never heard of that kind of problem from the "Dealer Sold Spas".

You instead hear of dealers charging high prices and rotten service or no service with no return policy. The keys issue with a dealer spa would be the same as the person has yet to call customer service and unless a dealer is telepathic then the issue would be their reguardless of the brand.

This is what they said in the original thread post:

I asked them to send me a panel - he told me a two week delay and that they'd just send a tech. And that I'd be charged for it since he's sure it's our wiring, but that the tech wouldn't check the wiring itself since he's not licensed [/b]What would a dealer do more then what they offered already? We hear this alot from dealer sold spas. Look at the tiger river drain issue on this forum and tell me that.The poster needs to let the service tech look at the spa and not listen to you the naysayer and think a dealer would be a better option. Thank god he didn't get this spa through a dealer or he would never be able to return it!

A drain cap thats dripping is a good comparision to a brand new spa that won't run. Same thing. And what makes you think if a dealer dropped off that spa and it didn't run he wouldn't replace it or fix it the same day?

[IL Parrothead]

Hey Soaker -- why don't you take a look at the new thread started about a Keys backyard spa purchased from Home Depot? Same type of product Costco has carried. Never heard of that kind of problem from the "Dealer Sold Spas".

You instead hear of dealers charging high prices and rotten service or no service with no return policy. The keys issue with a dealer spa would be the same as the person has yet to call customer service and unless a dealer is telepathic then the issue would be their reguardless of the brand.

This is what they said in the original thread post:

I asked them to send me a panel - he told me a two week delay and that they'd just send a tech. And that I'd be charged for it since he's sure it's our wiring, but that the tech wouldn't check the wiring itself since he's not licensed [/b]What would a dealer do more then what they offered already? We hear this alot from dealer sold spas. Look at the tiger river drain issue on this forum and tell me that.The poster needs to let the service tech look at the spa and not listen to you the naysayer and think a dealer would be a better option. Thank god he didn't get this spa through a dealer or he would never be able to return it!

A drain cap thats dripping is a good comparision to a brand new spa that won't run. Same thing. And what makes you think if a dealer dropped off that spa and it didn't run he wouldn't replace it or fix it the same day?

For no trip charge, probably with good customer service, with parts on the truck & without telling the buyer "Shut up and listen"!

[mskyking790]

I finally got my first power bill after a full month's use. The bill was as expected. It is a little hard to tell how much it went up from last year because we have only been in the house for 2 years and have been adding power users over the year. The bill went up about $50 from last December, but I am estimating that $40 is due to the spa. I did use the spa just about every night and the economy feature was not used much. I think that I can get it down to $30 after I figure out the best way to use the economy feature and set it up properly. Anyway, still no regrets on the spa at all and I am still very happy with it.

[soakerman]

I finally got my first power bill after a full month's use. The bill was as expected. It is a little hard to tell how much it went up from last year because we have only been in the house for 2 years and have been adding power users over the year. The bill went up about $50 from last December, but I am estimating that $40 is due to the spa. I did use the spa just about every night and the economy feature was not used much. I think that I can get it down to $30 after I figure out the best way to use the economy feature and set it up properly. Anyway, still no regrets on the spa at all and I am still very happy with it.

The cost that you have listed is very much inline with a spa as you have. I think on average my bill runs 30 dollars a month and has never crested the 50 dollar mark no matter what the month. I have had it just over two years now and have not yet insulated anything. Thanks for posting about your experiance and energy usage. The energy usage is also consistent with what the most power companies say a spa will use. Enjoy your spa and congrats!

[IL Parrothead]

What part of the country are you in, Soaker?

[darkproject2]

mskyking790 what is obvious about this board is that most people on here are spa dealers who seem to feel threatened by these larger companies offering cheaper prices and possibly better service, not nessaraly a better spa which I can understand, its the whole globalisation debate about putting the little guy out of business.

I do not really understand why they have to get stuck into a new site member so quickly who is only offering a personal opinion on his new spa.

I also had the option to buy from a large company or local dealer, I decided to go for the local dealer with the more expensive brand with the hope of a better product, better service and knowlegeable specialised staff. For me this really has not been a huge advantage, after 12 months I have had two minor and one major issue with my spa so far, the dealers have given me indriect chemical level twice (testing my water as pool water rather than a spa, luckly I notice, somthing did not seem quite right). and really have not shown any levels of service which were offered upon purchasing the product. Luckly I have alot of faith in my electricitian whom that dealer actually uses.

Upon saying that I am very happy with my spa, and again this is only my opinion, but as long you you are happy with your spa, enough said, thanks for giving your opinions on your new spa and enjoy!

[flibotte]

"Hey Soaker -- why don't you take a look at the new thread started about a Keys backyard spa purchased from Home Depot? Same type of product Costco has carried. Never heard of that kind of problem from the "Dealer Sold Spas"."

This was actually an electrical problem with the house. Her last post said spa was up and running once she got another electrician to take a look.

[IL Parrothead]

"Hey Soaker -- why don't you take a look at the new thread started about a Keys backyard spa purchased from Home Depot? Same type of product Costco has carried. Never heard of that kind of problem from the "Dealer Sold Spas"."

This was actually an electrical problem with the house. Her last post said spa was up and running once she got another electrician to take a look.

That is true. For the record, I am not a dealer, and I'm not giving the person that began this post a hard time. There's an argument for the less expensive "big box store" spas and the top end "dealer" spas. Normal people know the difference. On Average, the top end spas tend to give better quality and reliability. Only the individual can answer whether that is worth the possible extra cost over a similarly equipped big box spa.

I take as much issue with the dealers that say there's no place in the market for the big box spas as I do the Costco employees that bash the dealer spas or try to say their spas are not apples to oranges with the dealer spas. Again -- on average -- the spas sold at the Big Box stores are not the same level of quality in components or insulation as the big box stores. That doesn't mean a buyer wouldn't love them or wouldn't feel great in them. And in fairness to the dealers, oftentimes buyers in colder climates will pay much more in energy consumption (unless they undertake to further insulate the spas themselves) than the higher end spas -- again begging the question "How much did they really save?"

To the original poster -- Have fun in your soaking!

[mskyking790]

Thanks Parrothead. I enjoy the exchange, its nice to know that we can all discuss here on the board and let our opinion be known. I know that I had such a hard time making up my mind on the purchase and ultimately made the best choice for me. I think that for a first time purchase you probably need a some opinion from everyone to find out what's right for them and that's why I wanted to make sure people could know all of their options.

[IL Parrothead]

Msky, my friend, we're on exactly the same page!

[analyze]

There are a lot of spa choices from makers like Marquis, HS, Jacuzzi, Caldera, etc that you can get for 7 grand. I hope you enjoy your spa for many years but I am not sure how you saved 3 grand, all of major makers have spas from 4 to 10 grand an more. I hope soakerman did not sway you.

I get it.... you are trying to sway this guys decision because he doesen't parrot your opinions. I assume now you are going to insult him by telling him he doesen't know what he is talkng about. You don't have any spas for that price point vs. the features and quality otherwise people wouldnt bother with Costco....

I think the spa He is getting is a great spa for the price and I assume He looked a tHis local fleecer...er..... dealer and know exactly what He is getting for His money. I hope you enjoy your spa as its been two years without one glitch for my Costco purchase nor any high bills or end of the world stories as people on this forum elude to if you don't buy a dealer spa.

Thanks soakerman. I think that you are right; I did not pay a dealer for thr overhead of a sales commission, rent for a showroom and electricity to run 10 tubs. I feel that the tub that I purchased is probably the same spa you can buy in any one of the higher end dealers without the overhead. The tub is high quality and works as described. I have not had to contact the manufacturer for any problems yet, but if I do I know I have the backing of Costco who will take the spa back if I am dissatisfied.

Amazing simply amazing do you think Costco has no over heard that the hundreds of employees at thier stores are volunteers ? that the huge 100,000 plus sq ft building are rent free. It is also a false statement regarding the savings, I have spas that have all the features you speak of for less than 7000.00 if you and soaker want to some how convince yourselves that you saved 3 grand you are most welcome to do so, just as you are welcome to believe in Santa, the tooth fairy and moose goose. But in the real world you can buy Marquis, HS, Jacuzzi and many others for 7 grand and less. Why this is so difficult for you both to accept is simply strange.

It's not that Costco doesn't have overhead. They demand lower prices for thier distribution channel in exchange for higher turnover and Costco return policy. They sell more per sqr foot then the small guy can ever accomplish. It's called economies of scale. It's an economic principle that has made mass merchandisers (Costco, Walmart, .etc... the list goes on... ) so successful. And the manufacturer is primarily happy with this because they sell more and they occomplish their own economies of scale usually by maximizing their fixed costs thus lowering overall manufacturing costs. And while they accept lower margins, they make up for it in much higher earnings and revenue.

You spa dealers keep blathering about service and quality. Same thing happend to thousands of mom and pop stores around the world as Walmart opened their stores and the mom and pops were closing theirs. You better do a better job of differentiating yourself with those kind pricing differences.

Your free Microeconomics 101 and Marketing 101 class is now officially over.

[Roger]

You spa dealers keep blathering about service and quality. Same thing happend to thousands of mom and pop stores around the world as Walmart opened their stores and the mom and pops were closing theirs. You better do a better job of differentiating yourself with those kind pricing differences.

Your free Microeconomics 101 and Marketing 101 class is now officially over.

We are not loosing any fealers here. Most buyers are demanding better product than the local walmart is selling. Some things are fine but not hot tubs. Manufactuers are cutting corners to meet the price points, not excepting lower margins.

Go back to school.

[IL Parrothead]

Analyze, you'd be half-way onto something if Costco was selling the same product as the dealers, but they're not even close. The manufacturers that agree to make a product for Costco (at least in the hot tub industry) have to cut corners to make the price point. They put in cheaper components and use less energy efficient methods. So, your Economics and Marketing lecture is more than a bit off-base.

[analyze]

Analyze, you'd be half-way onto something if Costco was selling the same product as the dealers, but they're not even close. The manufacturers that agree to make a product for Costco (at least in the hot tub industry) have to cut corners to make the price point. They put in cheaper components and use less energy efficient methods. So, your Economics and Marketing lecture is more than a bit off-base.

Ahhhh. the quality argument. Do you have any substantive research to back that kind of statement? Not just sporadic, unhappy customers but rather statistically sound research that not only measures quality but measures the difference in quality to the price differential?

Please forward and make me a believer.

[Roger]

Analyze, you'd be half-way onto something if Costco was selling the same product as the dealers, but they're not even close. The manufacturers that agree to make a product for Costco (at least in the hot tub industry) have to cut corners to make the price point. They put in cheaper components and use less energy efficient methods. So, your Economics and Marketing lecture is more than a bit off-base.

Ahhhh. the quality argument. Do you have any substantive research to back that kind of statement? Not just sporadic, unhappy customers but rather statistically sound research that not only measures quality but measures the difference in quality to the price differential?

Please forward and make me a believer.

You should call the manufacturer and ask them.............we see it based on our years of experience with big box store spa's. Long before Costco was selling them several others have gone down the same road and failed.

I'm assuming you MUST have evidence to prove our statements are not correct??? Otherwise you would never consider asking us to prove our assesment of these units.

[flibotte]

"And while they accept lower margins, they make up for it in much higher earnings and revenue."

Actually, in this case it doesn't look like they do. Hydro and Keys both went belly up.

[analyze]

Analyze, you'd be half-way onto something if Costco was selling the same product as the dealers, but they're not even close. The manufacturers that agree to make a product for Costco (at least in the hot tub industry) have to cut corners to make the price point. They put in cheaper components and use less energy efficient methods. So, your Economics and Marketing lecture is more than a bit off-base.

Ahhhh. the quality argument. Do you have any substantive research to back that kind of statement? Not just sporadic, unhappy customers but rather statistically sound research that not only measures quality but measures the difference in quality to the price differential?

Please forward and make me a believer.

You should call the manufacturer and ask them.............we see it based on our years of experience with big box store spa's. Long before Costco was selling them several others have gone down the same road and failed.

I'm assuming you MUST have evidence to prove our statements are not correct??? Otherwise you would never consider asking us to prove our assesment of these units.

Your opinion is subjective even if it is based on experience. That's why they have indepedent organizations like JD Powers that do this kind of work.

And it's not my job to prove that Costco is the same quality. It's the job of the local retailers to prove that the value that the consumer will receive is equal to or greater then the premium that they are asking the consumer to pay. Anything less than quality research is just an unsubstantiated sales pitch.

[Roger]

Analyze, you'd be half-way onto something if Costco was selling the same product as the dealers, but they're not even close. The manufacturers that agree to make a product for Costco (at least in the hot tub industry) have to cut corners to make the price point. They put in cheaper components and use less energy efficient methods. So, your Economics and Marketing lecture is more than a bit off-base.

Ahhhh. the quality argument. Do you have any substantive research to back that kind of statement? Not just sporadic, unhappy customers but rather statistically sound research that not only measures quality but measures the difference in quality to the price differential?

Please forward and make me a believer.

You should call the manufacturer and ask them.............we see it based on our years of experience with big box store spa's. Long before Costco was selling them several others have gone down the same road and failed.

I'm assuming you MUST have evidence to prove our statements are not correct??? Otherwise you would never consider asking us to prove our assesment of these units.

Your opinion is subjective even if it is based on experience. That's why they have indepedent organizations like JD Powers that do this kind of work.

And it's not my job to prove that Costco is the same quality. It's the job of the local retailers to prove that the value that the consumer will receive is equal to or greater then the premium that they are asking the consumer to pay. Anything less than quality research is just an unsubstantiated sales pitch.

So you don't need us to give you the performance ratings of the controls supplied by Balboa to Infinity for the Costco tubs and the performance stats. for all of there more expensive controls used by other manufacturers. You also don't need us to supply you with photo's of the hodge podge of plumbing inside said spa versus a quality spa. Or the differences in the waterway pumps or jets, Or the differences in the frame work or insulation or any of that stuff. Because as a shopper if you don't see it and recognize it before you buy then you were blinded by the price tag!!

[hottublady]

There are a lot of spa choices from makers like Marquis, HS, Jacuzzi, Caldera, etc that you can get for 7 grand. I hope you enjoy your spa for many years but I am not sure how you saved 3 grand, all of major makers have spas from 4 to 10 grand an more. I hope soakerman did not sway you.

I get it.... you are trying to sway this guys decision because he doesen't parrot your opinions. I assume now you are going to insult him by telling him he doesen't know what he is talkng about. You don't have any spas for that price point vs. the features and quality otherwise people wouldnt bother with Costco....

I think the spa He is getting is a great spa for the price and I assume He looked a tHis local fleecer...er..... dealer and know exactly what He is getting for His money. I hope you enjoy your spa as its been two years without one glitch for my Costco purchase nor any high bills or end of the world stories as people on this forum elude to if you don't buy a dealer spa.

Thanks soakerman. I think that you are right; I did not pay a dealer for thr overhead of a sales commission, rent for a showroom and electricity to run 10 tubs. I feel that the tub that I purchased is probably the same spa you can buy in any one of the higher end dealers without the overhead. The tub is high quality and works as described. I have not had to contact the manufacturer for any problems yet, but if I do I know I have the backing of Costco who will take the spa back if I am dissatisfied.

Amazing simply amazing do you think Costco has no over heard that the hundreds of employees at thier stores are volunteers ? that the huge 100,000 plus sq ft building are rent free. It is also a false statement regarding the savings, I have spas that have all the features you speak of for less than 7000.00 if you and soaker want to some how convince yourselves that you saved 3 grand you are most welcome to do so, just as you are welcome to believe in Santa, the tooth fairy and moose goose. But in the real world you can buy Marquis, HS, Jacuzzi and many others for 7 grand and less. Why this is so difficult for you both to accept is simply strange.

Your Right!

[hottublady]

I just wanted to start a new thread about my first thoughts on the Pilates H20. I am a first time buyer in Phoenix and this is my first time posting in this forum. My wife I have been looking to buy a hot tub for about 18 months. We wet tested the Hotsprings Grandee and a couple of mid range Jacuzzis last March. As we soaked in the Hotsprings spa, we decided it was not worth paying over 10K after tax for a spa that wasn't perfect for both of us. After going to the Jacuzzi dealer, we were not overly impressed and decided that we did not need a tub that year.

When we noticed the ads for the Pilates at Costco, we were very curious. I tried to find information about the spa in this forum and found out that they are part of Gulf Coast Spas and was comfortable with their record on the BBB. I am also very aware of Costco's return policy and figured that in the worst case scenario, I could simply return it. The price when I ordered the spa was $6,999 and I figured that a $3,000 in savings from the Hotsprings with similar features was well worth the price. After I ordered it, Costco offered the spa for $1,000 less which really helped out with the initial setup costs for electrical and concrete pad.

When it arrived, I had the drivers to move it into the back for $150, which was a bit of a chore. My electrician came that day and hooked it up. I started filling the spa, which took about an hour. The spa holds 350 Gallons and took about 6 hours to heat from 69 degrees to 85 degrees. I found out that I made some rookie mistakes because I did not have the cover on and I was running cold air from the bubbler system part of the time.

After heating the spa from the economy mode, which took 3 hours to rise from 80 to 100 degrees with the cover on, I jumped in this evening to test out the system. I found the controls to be a bit complex at first, but read through the startup procedures in the manual and I started to understand how everything works. Basically there are 2 main seats that run programmed massage settings, 1 captain seat, and 4 shallow seats with varying jet types. I found that these shallow seats can double as a makeshift lounger. There is plenty of power coming from the main pumps. The LED light is a standard light that rotated between 5 colors, or can be held static. The radio was a nice touch as well, but fairly standard. The spa also comes with 6 hand held massager balls. I did like them and they can be used to work muscles that the jets won't reach.

I only have two small problems that I noticed. The remote does not seem to be functioning properly. It seems to operate intermittently on the spa and radio functions, but this could be part of my learning curve. Also, I am 6'2" and found that the seats were a little shallow and the jets could not touch the top of my shoulders, even in the deep seats.

I'll try to offer another update in the coming weeks after I've had more time to evaluate. I also need to work out the chemistry… I’ve got some reading to do!

Awsome you purchased a hot tub! Welcome to the family=) So how much did you end up paying after the tub? As far as sub panel, additional move to back yard, chemicals, cover lifter, step, your electrical bill and so on?

I just would like to know the overall cost?

[xtlhunter]

Analyze, you'd be half-way onto something if Costco was selling the same product as the dealers, but they're not even close. The manufacturers that agree to make a product for Costco (at least in the hot tub industry) have to cut corners to make the price point. They put in cheaper components and use less energy efficient methods. So, your Economics and Marketing lecture is more than a bit off-base.

Ahhhh. the quality argument. Do you have any substantive research to back that kind of statement? Not just sporadic, unhappy customers but rather statistically sound research that not only measures quality but measures the difference in quality to the price differential?

Please forward and make me a believer.

Analyze,

I can't really comment on hot tubs from big box stores but I can comment on the televisions. Go to best buy , circuit city or any other higher quality electronics store in your area and look at the panasonic or sony televisions. Look at the serial numbers and write them down. Go to wal mart, sams club,bj's wholesale and look for those tv's with the same numbers. You probably won't find them. The tv's look the same until you compare numbers. I was shopping for a panasonic plasma tv recently and saw one at a local "wholesale" retailer and it was almost 1800 dollars less. They looked identical until I checked the numbers. All the numbers/letters were the same except one. I then researched a little further to find that this tv was by no means the same one I looked at in best buy. I have seen this with other items too.

I'm not saying everything big box stores sell is lower quality, I'm sure the snickers bars are the same...... but then again, I have not counted the peanuts:)

Depending on what I want from a product is what determines what I am willing to pay for it. For instance, the television, I like to watch tv so I wanted something that would give me the best picture. so I was willing to pay more. I like photography too but not as much, so when I bought a camera I did not feel I needed to spend a lot to get the best picture. I did research them both to get the best one for the money though.

The products at the big box stores have their place as do the products at the dealers. On the rare occasion I do find a dealer product for the price of the big box product I will definitively buy it. But for the most part that old saying "you get what you pay for" holds true more often than not.