dark rider

The K2006 can give you accurate readings for both FC and CC, but as I understand it, CC is only really an issue if chloramines are causing inaccurate FC readings, so that there is a big disparity between FC and CC. In the end, FC is really what you're after, and if there is a disparity, the question is why, since apparently the FC isn't sufficiently oxidizing waste. Shocking in the true sense isn't really necessary with ACE or even a dichlor/bleach regimen, provided FC is consistently maintained in the water, as bacteria will be oxidized and algea will never have a chance to grow or spread. I don't really think it matters if you shock as a precautionary measure, provided you don't use the tub until the FC returns to acceptable levels, or you could just add smaller amounts of dichlor over a longer period of time to keep the CYA reserve at an acceptable level. I think there may also be another chemical means to get a CYA reserve without relying on dichlor. I remember reading something, but can't recall where... Maybe Chem Geek or one of the other resident gurus will chime in, since I'm by no means an expert at water chemistry. I've learned quite a bit , but still have a ways to go.

rsc92, my Grandee behaves the same way. I've left mine set at 100, and it's typically 102F when I first lift the cover. About 5 mins. after the jets have been circulating, temp decreases to right at 100 and stays there for pretty much as long as I use the tub. I don't think there's anything wrong with mine. Factory inspection date on mine (sticker on the controller inside service bay) is 10/10/2010 and all appears to function normally. Actually, I do have one warranty issue, I need to get resolved. One of my LED's behind the MotoMassage cover doesn't display all of the colors. Otherwise, my tub has been flawless.

I was looking through my ACE documentation, and this is a statement from the install sheets included with the separate ACE manual. For those considering using the ACE with Ozone... Optional: If spa usage is light to average, the Ozone Unit will not be needed. If Ozone Unit is used, disregard steps below and add female Quick Disconnect Adaptors to Ozone power terminals on IQ 2020 box then attach Ozone power connectors to one side of Female Quick Disconnect Adapter and Cell Control Box power supply connector to other side. Part number to use ACE with Ozone is cited as 72855, Female Quick Disconnect Adaptor

HotSpring's wiring diagrams are part of the owners manuals, which are available for download by year here: http://www.hotspring.com/Hot_Tub_Customers/owner_manual_pre-delivery.html #8AWG should be sufficient for the main to subpanel according to the most recent manual, but it's going to depend on the length of your run, so you'd probably be better talking to an electrician, if in doubt.

If it gives you more piece of mind, then I don't think you're going to encounter any problems using ACE with the ozonator, and HotSpring knows that, so I'm not really surprised by their position. Personally, I think the ozonator is overkill in conjunction with ACE though. Based on my limited results with ACE so far (3 weeks), I'm going to maintain some CYA base (about 10-15ppm) using dichlor. I seem to get more consistent readings this way without having to rely on the boost function, except for parties, etc. Basically, I'm using it as a more automated dichlor/bleach alternative, and so far it has been stabile and very reliable this way, and the water is crystal clear and feels great on the skin with the lowered calcium. That said, in my limited usage, ACE has proven very effective at maintaining consistent FC readings, which is typically the most difficult part of a manual dosage regimen. With manual dosing, you are effectively entering the dose all at once. Even if it's at the same time everyday, it still makes it more difficult to consistently keep FC within the target range. Not to say it can't be done, because there are plenty of vigilant water testers here that have shown that it can, but ACE is continually working to spread out the dosing in much smaller segments, rather than providing unstabilized chlorine/bleach all at once. It's there to remember, even when you're not. Once CYA runs low (I picked up a Taylor K2006 test kit for more reliable testing), I will shock with more dichlor to maintain some CYA, but otherwise, I just need to maintain sufficient salt in the system to keep creating the unstabilized chlorine. I'll still probably test more than the recommended once per month, but I really like the ACE system, especially since it really didn't cost me anything extra in my final negotiated price.

Congrats Razorhog, the pavers give the concrete pad a nice upscale feel. It looks great! I still need to snap off some shots of my Grandee. It's mounted on a patio beneath a deck, and I planned the layout around it as well. I was a little worried that the natural slate tiles may crack due to the weight/size of the Grandee, but the base is wire reinforced 6"-8" concrete with several large footer, since it's a large deck. So far, it's been holding up perfect, but time will be the real test. Happy tubbing!

I dialed the heat back to 99F and the water felt perfect this evening for a longer soak with the family. It was 101F when we first lifted the cover and got in, but quickly dropped to 99F with the jets on and held there consistent the whole time we were in the water (about 45-50 mins. total with cool downs). I think mine is functioning normally.

That is normal; that water has to be that hot to mainitan the temp in the 400 gallon spa. spatech, once the thermostat trips the set temp, should the return continue to circulate the very hot water into the tub to maintain the current temp or does it either dial back or shut off? I read the "always" comment in Tubber's response to mean that it continues even after it has reached the set temp. This may be normal though, since it takes continuous hot water to maintain hot water, and you may not be able to feel a slight variation of what is coming out of the outlet with your foot.

No, even the ACE tubs have a circ pump. It's the ozonator that is disconnected when the ACE is installed. I've had my Grandee 3 days now, and love the tub, but mine may also be running hotter than what it's set at. It was 2F hotter than the setting I had it programmed for last night when the family went to take a dip. Still within the acceptable range, but a bit hotter than I would have liked. I dialed it back a couple of degrees, and plan to keep a watch on it. If it is consistent, it may not be a problem. But if it cannot be accurately controlled, I will be calling HotSpring as well.

Mine may be off as well. It feels like the circ. pump continues to send hot water, even after it's reached the set temp. It obviously holds a bit more heat when the covers down versus up as well, but mine seems to be about 2 degrees off. I'm going to keep an eye on it, and will likely call Watkins as well.

tylemandan, this is piece of the puzzle I was missing! I have the reference card showing the ppm per cup of salt, but did not see what the specific values/parameters were on the topside display as a reference check, since there are just colors and no numbers. I knew it varied by which tub size you selected, but now it will be easier to know what the impact will be by adding a cup or more of salt. Thanks!

Tub size and usage will certainly have some influence on salt comnsumption, as will whether you choose to add any dichlor, since the CYA will also require more chlorine production. My tech said that I shouldn't need to add salt for at least 2-3 months in my Grandee, and it could be longer depending on usage. You can run a manual test of salt level at any time in the water care menu, so as long as the water is more than 100F, add a cup at a time in the filter area with the jets running and wait at least 10 minutes before retesting. If the water is cooler, it will likely take longer to register. Mine registered perfectly on my fresh fill though after the 10 mins. Ideally, you want the salt reading right in the middle of the green (acceptable) range for your tub, which will vary based on the size setting you input during setup. On a smaller tub, you might want to add slightly less than a cup at a time when the salt level dips into the low range, since it will have a bigger impact. Should be pretty easy. FWIW, my tech mentioned that he suspected the single container of salt will likely last about 12 months.

FWIW, I got the chance to watch my dealer install the ACE system yesterday afternoon during my Grandee install. It was extremely easy to put in, and I did hang onto the ozonator unit. Since the swap out was very simple, if the ACE ever fails and I don't want to replace it, I can always switch over to traditional dichlor/chlorine. I asked if HotSpring had a policy regarding what to do with the ozonator, and the answer is "no." It's up to the dealers. He said they had always given the buyer the choice to keep it, since technically it's part of the sales price, but if the buyer doesn't want it, the dealer stocks and resells it. Some dealers may not be giving buyers the option though, so if any of you end up buying an ACE equipped tub, definitely ask the installer to give you the ozonator! So far, everything appears to be working perfectly. After PH is adjusted and the Vanishing Act product has been left in long enough to lower the calcium to appropriate levels, you need to wait until the water temperature rises to add the salt (helps it dissolve)into the filter area. They recommend waiting until the temp is at least 100F. I measured out 6 cups (recommended amount based on size) for my Grandee and added it slowly with the jets on full (temp at 102F). Waited about 10 more minutes, ran a manual salt test on the control panel, and salt level was already measuring in the normal range. Once in the normal salt range, the service icon stops flashing, and a message displays that everything is functioning normally. Dichlor can be optionally used with ACE to establish a reserve (5ppm), but it isn't necessary. Anything more will impact your usage settings. Otherwise, take normal water measurements twice a week during the first 2 weeks, and once you have stabilized, test it monthly. So far, so good, but time will be the real test...

Thanks Razorhog. Despite the circumstances, the owners of the dealership were stand up people to deal with throughout the process, so it's a shame that they are closing. I just hope whoever ends up either buying the dealership or taking over the HotSprings line for Atlanta is as good. I also spoke with the owner of the Peachtree City dealership (about 30 miles south of me), and she is very personable/responsive as well, so I know that I won't be left without service, if needed. I was able to squeeze my first soak in last night around 10pm. I tried to talk the wife into joining me, but she was catching up on her DVR shows. I'm kind of glad, because it was nice having a huge tub all to myself! I must have looked like a kid on Christmas playing with all of the lights and jet configurations. Water temp was locked in at 102F, and ambient was in the mid-50's. I soaked for a total of about 40 mins. (2 - 20 minute intervals with a short cool down in between. It felt wonderful, and I slept like a rock last night! The water is so soft with the ACE system, I didn't feel any need to shower afterwards at all. It's funny now reading back through my initial impressions, and how I was originally leaning toward the Optima, mainly because I loved the footwell and the air/sunscents during the wet test. Both are great features, but after receiving the Grandee, I have no doubts that I made the right decision. The calf jets on the Grandee double as foot jets when you're in the opposite seat... How ingenious is that? You just need to figure out how to use the diverter valves properly, which I didn't fully understand during either of my 2 wet tests. There are a ton of jet variations that you can get with the diverters on the Grandee. Than you have the ability to fine tune each jet, either on the jet face or through a separate air control knob. The only jets that don't have an air knob are the main footwell jets, but they can be dialed back through the diverter as well. I don't know if it's the new filters, but my pumps feel stronger than the Grandee I wet tested as well. The only ones that I liked all the way up were the soothing 7's. Everything else I had to dial back a bit after a minute or so. I still think the Optima has the ability to put out more power through more jets at the same time, but I'm guessing it's because of the bypass filtration coming through the bottom suction fittings. Hotsprings relies more on the clever use of diverters and individual controls to get it's power, without bypassing the filtration. Again, brilliant... I my Grandee!

Finally, after a long 8 weeks... D-Day finally arrived! This afternoon I took delivery of my 2010 HotSpring Grandee in Pearl/Espresso! The install was pretty much uneventful. The sales manager himself brought a crew out to see that it was done right. The tub is filled and heating, currently at 92 degrees degrees, which means I should be operational either late this evening or by tomorrow after work. I can officially confirm now that the dealer is shutting down, so if any of you dealers are looking to take over the Atlanta HotSprings market, it's ripe for the pickings! I'll be sure to post up some pics when I get a chance. For now, I'm just happy to have taken delivery and anxiously awaiting my first soak...

If it's relatively mild, I'm guessing it's likely residual oil or mold release from the manufacturing process, since it's a brand new tub. With the low CH after the Vanishing Act treatment, it's likely normal. How are your FC and pH readings? I think it's supposed to take a few weeks to nail down your usage settings, but your pH should definitely be normal and your FC will likely read pretty low (around 1ppm), which based on what Chem Geek and others have said is normal for a non-CYA stabilized tub, since the chlorine produced by the ACE system will be stronger than CYA stabilized chlorine. Feel free to post any impressions you've had with ACE or the setup process as well. I'm curious, since I'll finally be taking delivery of my ACE equipped Grandee this week!

Thanks Piper. I've spoken with Watkins and the owners of the dealership. I've been working with them to try and resolve, and it looks like I will likely be taking delivery as well. I think the dealership is honest and trying to do the right thing, but it is clear that they are hurting financially, and may indeed end up closing. I also spoke with the Peachtree City dealer and they were very understanding, and are willing to work with me should I need service. I'm a bit frustrated at the moment, but am hopeful that it will work out. One thing is for sure... This economy is brutal!

+1, Congrats and enjoy the Vanguard!

Correct. I can't speak for the dealer, but I was referring to the indirect relationship. The rising chlorine demand would cause the user to up their settings, thus using more salt.

Do the perimeter insulated brands isolate their electronics, pumps and motors from the added heat in the cabinet? If not, I'm willing to bet the added cabinet heat will have a direct impact on component life! Ease of servicing a leak wouldn't outweigh the much more expensive cost of replacing the core components in my mind.

Piper, any feedback on the delivery/install?

I don't think there's anything that would prevent you from running both systems at the same time. I doubt that it would be any more effective, but as the dealer indicated, it would likely cause salt consumption to go up. I wonder what HotSpring's formal position is?

My wife is 5'2" and my 12 year old daughter is 5' even. The 12 year old still won't likely sit still, but my wife preferred the booster seat on the Grandee when we were wet testing. It was a Leisure Concepts brand, and it seemed to work very well. Her head was not underwater without it, but it gave her more friction and allowed her to use her arms on the molded armrests in the tub to brace herself, so she didn't get pushed out of the seat. The booster was filled with water and had suction cups on the bottom to keep it in place. The dealer said they'd include one with our tub order, but it's not a pricey item... like $20 - $30, which is money well spent, if it makes the experience more enjoyable.

Watkins is the parent company of HotSpring and are probably the largest and one of the most reputable of the hot tub manufacturers. $5500 is a bit high for a private sale for an '04 Grandee, but would be reasonable for a dealer refurb. I think $3500 to $4K would be fair, maybe $4500,if it were very clean and had service records.

I can see them pushing out delivery lead times so that they can fill a truck and save on shipping, but they should have called you, if it was something they truly were aware of. I'm sure HotSpring has no trouble holding the shipment, so it certainly wasn't an excuse not to put the order in! I'm not really sure when the ordering process is complete, other than they have what appears to be a proprietary system that gives you the quote and records the order once it's finalized. Once our down payment was processed via credit card, they printed out a copy of the order showing the downpayment was received. The financing paperwork was old school carbon copy, and they gave us the 2 yellow copies. 2 orders seems awfully low over the six week period. We had one guy place an order when we were there wet testing the second time, and there were at least several financing carbon copies on the desk when we came in to fill out that paperwork. Maybe they were holding multiple orders for some reason? Either way, congrats on your Envoy and hopefully everything turns out alright with your install! Definitely keep me posted, and I'll follow up with how our order/install turns out.