JerimiahR

When you say stone, do you mean pavers, or pea gravel? Generally speaking, the idea with the EZ-Pad type devices is so you don't have to put something else down.

At least you finally found a spa!! LOL I'm not sure what the $1200 'goofy' food and fuel rebate is. Was that something the dealer offered, or something from Bullfrog directly? Look forward to hearing about your Bullfrog experiences in the future. Being only an hour away from you, I'm curious to see how things turn out with your Bullfrog dealer. They're new to the business, and our Bullfrog dealer in Bozeman is no more. Curious to see whether folks in Bozeman with Bullfrog spas can rely on the Helena dealer for help. Happy soaking in the new spa once you get it installed!!

I really think you should consider calling a spa manufacturer (I'd say Master would be the right fit) to open up a showroom in your area so you can impliment your vision. I hope that was a sarcastic joke. I'll tell you all this. With Hot Spring dealers I've never seen this to be a problem. The reality is, even with as much as dealers generally charge for service calls, they generally are just trying to break even on their service departments. It's that simple. It's not a profit based service. Without having a good service staff, nobody will ever buy another hot tub from you, period. So you run your service staff and hope to break even, while keeping your customers as happy as possible. It's a tricky balance for sure. As far as warranty service goes. I've had Hot Spring dealers in other states call us when one of our customers moved and took their spa with them. They'll usually get in touch with us and have us fax over copies of the original purchase documents and serial numbers so that they have the proper paperwork to submit to Hot Spring for warranty claims. I've not seen much of a problem before. I can't imagine a good dealer outright refusing the averange customer's service requests (let alone warranty service). Simply put, if a manufacturer had lots of complaints that dealer 'Y' would never service anyone's spa that was under warranty, I think they'd find someone else who wanted to start a hot tub store... Ultimately, business model & attitude come from the top down. Be it manufacturer to dealer, or dealer to employees. This is the case in any business type. Our dealer tries to go above and beyond when we can, simply because we know it's the service end of things that brings us customers. Word of mouth advertising is worth a ton more than anything else. We do free water analysis (at a tune of something like $5 a pop for our cost) with a computer system. We try to make sure our staff is always much more knowledgeable than our competitors about not only our product, but water chemistry issues and such. Simply put, we've sold new hot tubs to folks who originally bought their first spas elsewhere. Simply because in the end, they felt we served them better, and wanted to give us their business. I know our chemicals are more expensive than some of the stuff our competition sells. But I guarantee you we sell loads more product than they do. Just walking into their stores you can tell this. We've got shelves covered in different products, they just display spas, stoves, exercise equipment, etc. In the end, whomever you buy a spa from Wannago, expect to get from them no more than you get from them before the sale.

Personally, I think the Sovereign is the best of those models. But that's more opinion than anything else. I like the Hot Spring filter system, I like the new lighting, and I love the moto-massage. I also enjoy the open style seating in the Sovereign (you can move around easily). For me personally, the lounge in the Flair is curved a bit to much. But that's why you really need to sit in the hot tub (even if it's empty) to decide if it's comfortable for you. You very well might like the lounge better in this one. The Bengal is a great spa too. The jet setup in the lounge is one of my favorite to be honest. I typically sit in front of that setup in any model I sit in, simply because I like how those rotary jets feel. The Tiger River models weren't designed to have a lot of jets (nor were the Hot Spring models). It's more about where the jet is, and what it does. Ultimately, you just need to sit in it to really know what you like.

On models which can be run 110v or 220v, I always recommend 220v if you can do it. Running these spas on 110v is not really a problem, however as Peteyboy suggested, it cannot heat & run the jets at the same time. There's simply not enough power coming in to do such. If you run 220v, it's more of a convenience thing than anything else. The spa will heat & run the jets all at once. Plus, it will heat about 4 times as fast (theoretically). Most of these spas when run 110v have a 1.5kW heater (1,500 Watts). If you run that same spa 220v, that heater now becomes a 6kW (6,000 Watt) heater. So going 220v will allow it to heat while you use the jets, plus it'll heat more quickly. Ultimately, in really cold climates, this means you can sit in the spa longer before the water temp becomes an issue. For us in Montana, that makes a difference. Many of our customers still use their spas while it's -20F outside (I'm not even kidding!!). Doing such in a spa that's 110v results in a very short soak. When run 220v, you can sit it in quite a bit longer. The other thing to consider, is the cost to have a 220v line run for your hot tub. You might see if you can find an electrician to come out and give you a free estimate. Also, keep in mind that most of the 110v spas require a 20amp dedicated circuit. So the standard 110v outlet on your back porch probably is NOT going to work. In some cases, people find that since they might need to have an electrician come out and install power at all, it might as well be the 220v instead of simply having them run a dedicated 110v 20amp circuit.

Peteyboy, LOL Sometimes I'm glad I sell the spas, and let our service team deliver them. You just never know what you'll run into sometimes.

LOL Some good stories there. But I have to vote for the trusty duck thermometer. We've sold quite a few of them suckers. Granted their not as accurate as the thermostat in the spa, but they're cute. We also stock gator thermometers, and sell lots of them too.

LOL @ Wannago r5ran, the two previous booster seats you tried, do you know what brand they were? It sounds like you've resolved your need, but I thought I'd throw this out there in case anyone else needs one. The booster seat we've been selling lately (with good feedback) has been the "Life" Spa Booster Seat. http://poolsystemsusa.com/uploads/Spa_booster_seat_copy.jpg It fills with water, and gives you about a 4" lift. So far folks seem to like it. Just curious what you guys had used and not liked.

LOL Thanks for your input kimpur, great to see another Hot Spring lover on the forums. I really hate to say though, I've seen a few folks buy a Vista that later told me they wished they'd gotten the Grandee. Really has nothing to do with the Vista itself, other than it has a lounge. Those lounge seats frankly work for about half the population. Some folks tell me they can't do without the lounge seat. Some folks, well lounges just don't work for everybody. How about that corner seat in your Vista though? The one with the arm rests. But like kimpur said, Hot Spring has never been about the number of jets. If you just want lots of jets, go buy the least expensive spa you can find, cause they usually have a ton. Hot Spring focuses more on what the jets do, and how they feel. They've stuck with a specific set of jet types for quite a while now, simply because they are popular and enjoyed. But everyone has a different taste. And that's why there's so many brands of spas out there.

If you want a spa with little insulation in it, Coleman/Maax is a reputable brand that fits that bill. Decent quality hot tub, but not well insulated in my opinion. It sounds like that's what you're looking for. Generally speaking, full foamed spas are going to have much higher insulation values, and therefore cost less to keep heated. If they do develop a leak, they can be more difficult to repair. However, speaking of Hot Spring specifically, it's extremely rare for us to see a Hot Spring leak that wasn't actually left out to freeze. In other words, the ones we find plumbing leaks in, were actually "drained" and left to sit empty during the winter, without actually blowing the water out of the equipment and plumbing. So unless you get a spa that just doesn't have good glue joints in the first place, you're unlikely to see a leak in a fully foamed spa, in part because the plumbing being packed into the foam cannot move, so you get extremely little 'wear' on the joints. Personally though, I've heard of some dealers using the "easy access plumbing" as an actual sales point. I think that's unfortunate personally, since they're telling you "when it breaks, it's easy to fix" rather than selling a product that they're confident isn't going to break in the first place. These are my experiences and opinions though. I personally don't like perimeter based insulation. I also like the fact that Hot Spring, which is the brand I sell, specifically covers glue joints in their warranty (where as many other companies do not). This is because they're confident in not having those issues. Aside: You mentioned you have a "spa guy". Does he actually do repairs on this brand you're looking at? And can he do warranty work? This will be important since you mentioned you don't have a local dealer.

Oh by the way: with regard to the water fall and whether folks use it. Here's something you might consider, to help you decide what is right for you. The waterfall in the Flair and Bengal is the same unit. Because it is a higher flow of water, it requires that the jet pump be turned on at a low speed. So you'll have a good stream of water flowing out of it, however you'll also have a low humming noise from the jet pump. For some folks this is not a big deal. If you have your jets on full blast, the water fall will also work, and you're probably not looking for quiet at this point. The Soothing Stream water feature in the Sovereign is a bit different. It is a lower flow of water, and operates using water from the 24/hour circulation pump. It can be turned on and off whenever you desire, but since it runs off the circ pump you don't have any extra background noise. So all you'll hear is the water trickling off the little stream and into the hot tub. In my personal opinion, the larger waterfalls are fun for the kids to play with. Personally, I like the Soothing Stream because it provides that quiet, tranquil sound of a running creek/stream. So it all depends on why you want a waterfall feature. If you want one for fun, go with the Bengal or Flair. If you want one for relaxation, the Soothing Stream fits that bill better (in my opinion).

blue1234, The Sovereign is indeed likely the most popular model Hot Spring ever made. We sell a ton of them where my dealer is located here in Montana. The 2008 and newer models also have the dual Moto-Massage which is a fantastic jet. Imagine having a constant massage that runs up and down the length of your back (focusing on the muscles just outside of your spinal cord). My wife insists she'll never have a spa without the moto-massage (for whatever that's worth to you). Ultimately, you should sit in the spa and try it out. If you can't, at least stick your hand in and feel it run up and down your arm to get the idea. The Flair is also a good spa. The mechanics internally are identical to the Hot Spring line (pumps, heater, circuit board, etc). Although it has a 3 year warranty instead of the 5 year the Hot Spring and Tiger River spas come with, it's literally the exact same components inside. So you can expect the same reliability. Since they offer a 3 year warranty though, the spa can be sold less expensively than the Hot Spring. Again, you should really sit in the spa, even if it is dry/empty. The lounge in the flair is molded very differently from the Bengal and Sovereign. So sit in it and make sure you like how it is laid out. Personally, I've not had any issues with leaking due to the little LED lights here at my dealer. The Bengal is a pretty popular model too. It sounds like your dealer has what we refer to as the "M" or "Convertible" model of the Bengal. The standard version is the "MM" or Permanent 220v model. This model has a waterfall and a slightly larger jet pump in it, however requires a 220v power supply (as do the Flair & Sovereign). If lights are something you like, your dealer can also install the "Luminescence" light kit in the Bengal, and give it a multi-colored LED light system. Doing this simply replaces the Blue-LED light cluster that's already in the Bengal. No extra holes. Should be a fairly simple upgrade to install. As Peteyboy mentioned, the Bengal and Flair do not include the Ozone system standard. So you may want to inquire about adding that to those spas. It's a very beneficial feature to have in your spa. Helps keep the water cleaner without as much chemical usage, and frankly makes the water more comfortable to soak in since it breaks down the stinky part of Chlorine.

Congratulations Jetset. The Jetsetter is my personal favorite Hot Spring model. Just a fantastic little hot tub. Perfect for a couple to spend the evenings or early mornings relaxing in. Hope you guys enjoy it as much as I love it! Hope to hear more of your experiences in the future! Happy soaking!! Congratulations again.

Yeah I'd contact your city dealer and present this to them. See what they say. Who knows, they may well offer you a better deal if that spa is really sold for that much less. I've heard of some folks being told some outlandish stuff by salesman with some of our local competition too. A lot of the time though, consumers can see through the garbage. I actually sold a woman a $9,000 spa in part because one of my competitors was trash talking so bad she immediately decided she wanted nothing to do with them. Kind of sad to hear frankly. Then there's always the propagated myth that you can have a completely "chemical free hot tub." That rural dealer could very well be telling you the truth, who knows if they have some kind of agreement with your local city dealer. But I'd check with your city dealer first, just to make sure there's not a bad history with this other dealer.

We used to use "GE" GFCI breakers for our Hot Spring Spas. Recently they made a change to Cutler Hammer. My local electricians have all told me they prefer Cutler Hammer. For whatever that is worth. They all do the same thing, and I personally don't know enough about them to realize whether there's any real/true difference. But, my local electricians all seem to agree that Cutler Hammer is the way to go. Guess they've just had better experience with them long term I suppose.

Just to play devils advocate ... Is this because you lack information and/or knowledge on H2O spas? Or do you have some personal experience with some issue? (I think there's little doubt the OP has ruled out D1) Mainly because I'm not familiar with H20 Spas personally. The brands I mentioned I am familiar with as being generally quality spas. And as someone else mentioned, yes H20 is not the same as the Pilates H20 (which is part of the new Premium Leisure family). Course that's always nice and confusing for the average consumer to try to sort out. Ultimately I like Hot Spring / Caldera first and foremost. Everyone has to find the spa that's comfortable for them, that fits their needs and space. Brand can definitely make a difference, so folks should research the spa they're planning to buy (both through dealer, manufacturer, and other customers). On top of it all though, the dealer themselves are who you just be concerned with quite a bit. A good quality spa, with horrible local support, won't be such a great product in the end. Find a reputable, knowledgeable, and customer service friendly dealer.

I'd recommend: Hot Spring, Caldera, Sundance, Marquis, Arctic, Dimension 1, before H20 Spas.

I'll definitely back what has already been said here. Caldera, Hot Spring, Sundance, Marquis, etc will be the brands to consider. Keep one thing in mind. Some of the small hot tub manufacturers like to make spas with LOTS of jets in them, so they look impressive. This does not always mean you get anything quality wise. The major spa manufacturers look more closely at what the jets actually do for you, instead of simply putting a ton of them in the spa. By comparison, with this in mind, the Hot Spring Grandee can be "plain" looking since it isn't filled with holes. I can tell you though, for my dealer the Grandee was the number 1 selling model for us in 2008. Great hot tub if you're looking for leg room for multiple folks.

As Peteyboy said, Watkins Manufacturing makes both Caldera and Hot Spring products. It's sort of like shopping for a Toyota and a Lexus. It's the same company, but different features and or set up. Hot Spring remains as their flagship/premium line. This is what they are truly known for. Ultimately between the two, Hot Spring will be the better hot tub over all. Caldera is designed in a similar manner, but is intentionally set apart so it won't compete directly with their Hot Spring Spas. Purchasing either one would give you a stellar hot tub, with incredible manufacturer support. The dealer I work for has been a Hot Spring dealer since about 1982, and has done hot tubs since 1979. We've sold other brands in the past, but Hot Spring is all we do anymore. Fantastic company, and highly regarded product.

Heater is the most common. Try disconnecting that as Water Boy suggested. See if that does the trick. If so, it'll need replaced.

Well congratulations to you both on finding a hot tub. It'll be so nice to have a place to escape. Look forward to hearing about your hot tub experiences in the future!

I'm glad this old thread was brought back. But this is a humorous read. Why can you still buy Blue Water if it was in fact made by Infinity? For the same reason you can go to a Dodge/Chrysler dealer and buy a Chrysler. They won't be making them anymore, but there's still some out there on dealer lots that haven't sold yet (our local dealer has some left anyhow). I don't have any personal knowledge of Blue Water's involvement with Infinity, so I'm just going to take the word of the others here on the forums. That being said though, I'd never risk buying a hot tub through eBay.

I have not heard of this problem. The only thing that would come to mind however, would be if you put the spa so close to the house that any attached cover lifting device might bang against the house as you open and close it. Aside from that, I can't say I've ever heard of such a problem. There are a couple factors to consider though. If you push the spa virtually against the house, you won't be able to sweep out any debris that between in between the house and spa. Also, this may make it more difficult to get the cover to close and seal properly. Also, if you do put your spa very close to the house, you'll also want to realize that anything that falls from your roof will land on your spa. In the winter, this can mean ice or snow may land on your cover. As a very good example, I just had a customer in my store today who ordered a new cover for his spa. He gets very large (he estimated up to 70lbs) ice cycles hanging from his 3 story home that fell onto his cover. A few of them fell on his spa last winter and put holes in his cover. Don't put the spa so far from your house that it's unusable. If you get cold winters, you'll want the access side of your spa easily gotten to so you're not skipping through the snow very far to get in your spa.

What is this Swim Suit device you speek of? LOL Swim Suits are a modern fad. They're fabric pieces stitched together an worn about the waist or chest of those whom are shy. Or for those who unfortunately live within city limits and cannot bathe naturally.

Obviously I don't know what your state electrical codes require. So do not take my comments as gold. However, I can tell you the standard application (and what manufacturers typically recommend) is to have the GFCI breaker mounted in the subpanel box OUTSIDE. It may even be a code issue, but again I don't know that fine of details. Ultimately though, you absolutely need to have a GFCI somewhere along the line. If you're just installing a typical 50amp 2 pole GFCI, I'm not sure how it would cost any different to put the GFCI inside or outside. If they mounted the GFCI inside, they'd still have to mount a disconnect box with a breaker outside so you can shut down power to the spa (from outside). The whole reason this must be visible from the hot tub, is so that anyone servicing equipment within the spa can physically see the breaker to ensure nobody turns it on while they're touching equipment and such. It's just a safety deal. So if you end up putting in two 50amp breakers, cost wise I don't think it should matter whether the GFCI is inside or outside. Again, I'm not an electrician. Your electrician should know what the state codes are.