Tomab

Here is my situation. I have an Arctic Tundra that is almost 5 years old and very close to having the warranty expire. Among other things I just had the motor 1 replaced with a brand new motor under the warranty. When the dealer removed the old damaged motor they did not try and remove the wet end. Instead he installed another wet end that to me it appeared was clearly not new. I asked the repair guy if the wet end he was installing was new. He said it was nearly new. I said ok but I told him I didn't wan't to have my 5 year old wet end replaced with a 10 year old one. He mentioned that when the wet end is removed from a motor a lot of times it is damaged when trying to remove it. That's why he didn't even try even though I should have insisted that he at least try. Fast forward to starting up the tub.... The pump 1 wouldn't run do to an air lock. Never ran dry that long in my opinion. Less than 30 seconds. He opened up the nut to vent the air out. Motor 1 did end up running but at the initial start up there were pieces of black plastic shavings that ended up coming out of the motor 1 jets. With all the repairs that were done these pieces could only have come from one place and that is the wet end that was just put in. My concerns are if these black shavings are an obvious sign that something is seriously wrong with the wet end they just installed or is it something that is a common experience with wet ends that may be not "broken in". I'm growing tired of dealing with my dealer with this problem and contemplating if I should just leave it be and replace the wet end on my own at a later date if needed. Thanks in advance for any insight and thoughts on what you thing should be done. I was planning on attaching a photo of the pieces but I don't see that I can do that. I look further to see if I can. T

I have had the same results on all occasions after adding Gentle Spa after a drain and refill as well. The ph shot up off the scale. It was talked about in this thread here. Now I put the Gentle Spa in first then alter ph to where I need it to be. My thought is why adjust water parameters if I know as soon as I add a product I'm going to have to readjust anyway....not just a little but a lot. Not sure why it is not ph neutral when the product info clearly says it is. In my experience it clearly is not ph neutral.

Chem geek and Waterbear. You guys have been an enormous help for me over the last few years. Thanks for setting me straight on the SI. Tom

I've been using the dichlor/bleach method with great success. No problem with that. The question I have is how important is the Saturation Index in a acrylic, non-plaster/non-concrete hot tub? I have read conflicting opinions. Some saying it's only important for the plaster or concrete pool. Others say you should watch it in both hot tubs and pools. The reason I am asking is I am working on balancing my tub water after a water change. I have the water parameters all within the "normal" range except for the Saturation Index which reads a -.3. I understand anything in the .5 thru -.5 range is supposed to be ok but I feel I'm being compelled to try and get the SI as close to "0" as possible. Should I be attempting to do this in my acrylic hot tub or am I wasting time and chemicals? I've never really paid attention to SI in the past but I do want to balance the water correctly. Thanks, Tom

Hopefully the chemical chap isn't going to charge you to do the decontamination. I wish I could be more help with the Bromine subject but I'm not really up to speed on that. Like gman mentioned check out the bromine for beginners subject. My pleasure to help out.

To me it sounds as if there was bacteria was growing in your tub possibly even before you received it. The dealer/manufacture may have filled the tub and drained it, but there is always some water left in the plumbing. That is where the bacteria could have started. If the chlorine level ever drops below 0 there's always the opportunity for bacteria to grow. By the way you describe the chlorine levels always plummeting you definately have something bad growing in your tub. Your not going to kill it with regular chlorine levels. It looks as if your in need to do a decontamination found here. Then you should read up on Nitros water maintanence found here. Just incase your not sure about what's going on with your personal experience you should also read another persons experience found here. A couple of things. 1. Don't panic. There is so much help and information from members that will help walk you through any problems you may have. 2. Welcome to the forum. 3. I hope the kids are feeling better.(last on the list but certainly not least) Good luck....You'll be fine..

To each his own. There is no right or wrong. Just what one prefers. I love the whole outdoor experience not JUST the soak on it's own. I can't argue the convenience factor at all. Definately easier covered or enclosed. It's just not what I'm looking for at this point. To be fair if the tub is a distance away from the house that would kind of suck in the cold and wind. Mine is only a few yards away. Didn't mean to be insulting Spa Guru...kind of tongue in cheek...but thanks for the wind chill chart I would still recommend using the tub without covering it and then decide that it's not for you verses never even tried it at all. Once again...have fun!

I've had my hot tub for a few years. I at least in my mind had thoughts about covering the tub with a roof. Either a retractable awning/umbrella or something of the sort. I decided to wait for a while until I was sure what I wanted to do as well as let the sticker shock of the tub wear off before spending even more dough. In any case I absolutely love the open sky. For me, there's something about being in the elements(snow),star gazing, feeling the breeze/wind and while still being totally comfortable that is very appealing. It totally adds another dimension when compaired to the sterile enviroment of being enclosed. My wife also agrees. I agree with you that there would be some benefits of having a cover over the tub for the reasons you mentioned like reduce or eliminate snow removal, able to soak in the heavier rain. But to me those reasons don't even come close to putting a roof over the tub. If you don't want to experience the elements just put the tub indoors! I have gone out soaking when it was cold enough for me to wear a tossle cap and keep my ears warm. Not a big deal. What Spa Guru experienced is an extreme case and totally unneccesary IMO.......just wear the hat. (He may have embellished the story just a bit...no proof but just maybe) The only time I am reluctant to go in is in the pouring rain and hard cold winds. A light rain with a hat on is fine but when it is a cold hard rain...forget it. As with anything when your dealing with extremes there are exceptions. In my opinion I would at least wait and see how you both like it before adding the extra expense of covering it. Maybe in a few years I may change my mind and decide to cover/enclose it.....but for now not even a thought. Hope this helps. Have fun in the new tub!

Sorry, I haven't heard anything about what's going on in your neck of the woods but here in SW Pennsylvania there was a shake up with spa dealerships. The dealer I bought my Artic from a few years ago no longer carries them....but Arctic was picked up by a local dealer who used to carry HotSprings. They no longer carry HotSprings. Another dealer who used to carry Jaccuzzi was dropped by the manufacturer..not sure what they are going to carry now. All this seems unusual for different companies and dealers to make major changes to their lines or distribution all within the same general time frame.... As far as warranty claims with Arctic, I haven't heard that news. I just had my tub repaired and it doesn't seem to be a problem other than taking too long to get the part in.

If the heater stuck on due to a relay it would either fry the element or the hi limit depending on where it was placed, the plug overheats due to an inadequete connection for a 5.5 kw element, eliminating the plug will solve the problem, I used to do that with the old Jacuzzi "Blue Panel" packs. Waiting six weeks for a part is nuts, it only takes a cargo ship 3 weeks to cross the Pacific, what is their excuse? At this point it isn't quite clear on what's holding it up. Customs? Arctic dragging their feet? Who knows at this point. In the dealers defense they just recently aquired selling the Arctic line. They do not have an inventory of parts yet. My dealer that I purchased from no longer carries Arctic. Please contact the Arctic Spas Technical support team. They are very knowledgeable and would love to get your spa running properly. Contact: Shane S. 1-800-309-1744 or 780-789-2626 ext. 322 You can also contact him by email Shane@goarctic.com Water Boy, Thanks for the contact information. Much appreciated. As of this morning the spa is fixed. It was the relay that needed replaced. No need to replace heater.....just hard wired it into the board.

If the heater stuck on due to a relay it would either fry the element or the hi limit depending on where it was placed, the plug overheats due to an inadequete connection for a 5.5 kw element, eliminating the plug will solve the problem, I used to do that with the old Jacuzzi "Blue Panel" packs. Waiting six weeks for a part is nuts, it only takes a cargo ship 3 weeks to cross the Pacific, what is their excuse? At this point it isn't quite clear on what's holding it up. Customs? Arctic dragging their feet? Who knows at this point. In the dealers defense they just recently aquired selling the Arctic line. They do not have an inventory of parts yet. My dealer that I purchased from no longer carries Arctic.

I second what aquatechservice recommends. I am not a service tech but I am dealing with the same problem...melted plug, black burn marks inside spa pack. My tub is still under warranty. The service guy told me that Arctic recommends the same thing, to bypass the plug and hook directly into the spa pack board. They told me the reason why this happened is that the heater relay failed and current was still being supplied to the heater and overheated the plug even though the heater wasn't "on" supplying heat to the water. Not sure about that but that's what they told me. Now my problem is that I've been waiting a 1 1/2 months so far for the new relay to come in from Arctic.

I use dichlor then bleach method. For the bleach I use a twin neck dispenser bottle similar to the one shown here. All you do is remove cap from the dispensing side, squeeze to the proper measurement and then pour into the tub. Put the cap back on then dunk the whole bottle in the tub just incase any bleach got on the outside of the container. Once a month or so I have to refill the large side with bleach. Easy and works great! No mess and no extra container to deal with!

I would say that "call out charge" is a dealer charge and not an Arctic charge. My dealer is an hour away and doesn't apply a charge to me. By the way I'm very happy with my Arctic Tundra and dealer. Had it since April 09.

I wouldn't recommend Armor All. It is not recommend by most manufacturers of vinyl products. Armor All is a petroleum/silicone base which can actually break down vinyl. 303 Protectant is more expensive but IMO and a lot of others more educated on this subject than myself think it's worth it.

There is a product called 303 Protectant that is pretty much held in high regards in all fields when you need to protect things from UV damage. It protects a lot of materials too numerous to mention. Check out the website here

Hi raptor, I've commented a few times on your other thread asking about the Tundra. I hope I didn't sway you away from the Tundra on my own. Very nice tub. When my wife and I were shopping for our tub it was between the Tundra and the Summit. We chose the Tundra. I really liked the Summit but for me it felt too cramped. I know one of the seats I could not fit in at the hips. I did like the reclined sitting position of the Summit however. As far as the Tundra goes it is a more upright seating position compared to the Summit. I could fit in ALL the seats that are placed at varying levels.(well except one cool down seat...have to squeeze into it) The Summit has a recliner feel to them being tilted back more and the Tundra has a more upright dining room table chair feel to them. Both were very comfortable however. You mentioned this was for your Mom who was 68 in another post. I just remembered what the dealer told me about the Summit and how some people have trouble getting out of the seats since they are so reclined. I do see what she meant. Absolutely no disrespect to your mom but some "seasoned citizens" or someone with a physical ailment might have an issue with this. Although the the Tundra and the Summit are both 8' tubs the Tundra feels much larger while in it. While in the market and shopping for a tub I was in the same situation as you are. We couldn't decide between the two. We ended up driving 2 hours one way to another dealer just to compare side by side. If at all possible I would recommend the same for you. Even if they aren't wet you still can compare. If thats not an option I'm sure you will be satisfied with either one since your doing your research and getting other peoples experiences.

When filled it doesn't feel like they stick out to me.

That is the seat I was talking about that is my favorite. It is the deepest seat in the spa. My wife can sit in it but depending how filled it is she sometimes has to struggle to keep her chin up above the water level. Couple of things come to mind to help with this. 1. Don't fill quite as much. 2. Keep amount of people in the spa to a minimum while wife is in. 3. Get a spa pillow to sit on for her. No matter what don't let me persuade you away from the Tundra...just keeping it real. As far as the neck jets....I like them but not as much as I would have hoped. Really noisy while they are on due to lots of splash. I love the big jets in the middle up high in that seat. Massage is fantastic!

The design of this tub is pretty much designed to fit all body types. I myself am 6'2" and my wife is 5'4". My young kids fit as well. The Tundra has 3 "cool down seats" that make you sit up rather high to varying degrees. That being said not all people will fit comfortably in all seats. I have my prefered seat that is deep but my wife has to hold up her chin to stay above the waterline...especially when more people are in the tub. Same thing the other way. My wife likes a few other seats that aren't deep enough for me. I do use them all for a different massage but I have my favorite to really sit back and relax.

I have a Tundra LE I bought a year ago. Absolutely zero problems. I love the tub. I paid $10,750 US. No Onzen just Arctic Ozone (only 2 choices available at that time. Peak Ozone was replaced with Onzen) Forever floor Deluxe Northern Lights 2 tier cedar steps cover lifter start up supplies plus a couple of Arctic robes thrown in Free delivery and set up I didn't go for the Onzen partly because it was still somewhat new and still working some bugs out and my dealer did not recommend that I get it at that time. Maybe a different story a year later.....you decide. I also didn't go for the SE as well. Once again dealers opinion not worth it. I tend to agree since I'm not a big extended warranty fan. At least last year the SE would only buy me the warranty extension and no other upgrades. That being said it could be worth the piece of mind for some. I was willing to take my chances without it and save myself a couple grand. Whatever your choice is good luck! Hope this helps at least a little.

I am a big fan of simplicity so I don't see the direct approach of using more insulation to minimize heat loss as a disadvantage. The water temperature is controlled by a thermostat. When low, the heater kicks on. No heat is input when temp is at desired range. Not sure exactly where you stand from your previous post spawn but in response to your above comment which I agree is a valid concern about the increase in water temp. There seems to be some concern in regards to the Arctic spas actual water temp exceding the programmed set temp in the summer time. When this does happen it is relatively rare in my climate(southwestern PA). However, if my pumps have been running for some time and the heat inside the cabinet causes the water temp to rise more than a few degrees above the programmed set temp the pumps automatically stop and then my blower kicks in to remove the hot air that is inside my cabinet and therefore will decrease the temp inside the cabinet and in turn bring the water down to the set temp. Kind of like a safety valve of sorts. No need for a chiller or louvered door panel IMO since this method does work. Plus you still have the insulation when the ambient temp drops back down in the evening.

Upgrade? Like drilling holes in the shell to add jets and manifolds and modifying the plumbing? Hmmmmm, seems this is also a sales sling? Drill holes and run wires for more lights? Roger, what really is it about the Arctic name you don't like! Just about every benefit that Arctic has with their design you put it off as "sales spin" or "sales sling". And when some actually does see or believe the benefits of certain design aspects of an Arctic spa you say we "have been misled" or " are sadly being fooled". What gives?! This latest one you apparantly don't believe either about the drilling of holes in the shell. I can attest to usefullness. My dealer had to add an ozone system after it was delivered to me because they(the dealer not Arctic) forgot to order the tub with the ozone already installed. It took the dealer about 1 1/2 hours to do. Drill hole and modify the plumbing was very easy due to the fact that there was no foam to deal with. I watched him do it. I obviously wasn't happy about my dealer forgeting to order this but I would have been even more upset seeing him dig out foam on my brand new tub. I'm not making this up. You can check my past posts on this forum. Could this be done with a full foam spa...sure, but not nearly as easily. I know everyone has their own opinion and that is great, but to trash almost every design from a certain quality manufacturer kind of makes me wonder, especially when certain things do make sense......at least in my opinion. I must say I have no vested interest in ANY manufacturer and maybe should just shut my mouth but I just think Arctic is sometimes given a bad rap based on some preconceived notion that they are out to scam everyone....maybe there has been some unscupulous sales people in the past but thats not the manufactures fault nor is it limited only to Arctic. jeffinwhitby, sorry if it seems like we are getting off topic from your original question,,,, just trying to sort things out. The opinions expressed on this thread represent those of individual authors and unless clearly labeled as such do not represent the opinions or policies of any pool and spa forum member. I think I may be done here with this thread...At some point I may need some advice on the forum and Roger may be the only one who knows the answer.....no hard feelings

Upgrade? Like drilling holes in the shell to add jets and manifolds and modifying the plumbing? Hmmmmm, seems this is also a sales sling? Drill holes and run wires for more lights? Roger, what really is it about the Arctic name you don't like! Just about every benefit that Arctic has with their design you put it off as "sales spin" or "sales sling". And when some actually does see or believe the benefits of certain design aspects of an Arctic spa you say we "have been misled" or " are sadly being fooled". What gives?! This latest one you apparantly don't believe either about the drilling of holes in the shell. I can attest to usefullness. My dealer had to add an ozone system after it was delivered to me because they(the dealer not Arctic) forgot to order the tub with the ozone already installed. It took the dealer about 1 1/2 hours to do. Drill hole and modify the plumbing was very easy due to the fact that there was no foam to deal with. I watched him do it. I obviously wasn't happy about my dealer forgeting to order this but I would have been even more upset seeing him dig out foam on my brand new tub. I'm not making this up. You can check my past posts on this forum. Could this be done with a full foam spa...sure, but not nearly as easily. I know everyone has their own opinion and that is great, but to trash almost every design from a certain quality manufacturer kind of makes me wonder, especially when certain things do make sense......at least in my opinion. I must say I have no vested interest in ANY manufacturer and maybe should just shut my mouth but I just think Arctic is sometimes given a bad rap based on some preconceived notion that they are out to scam everyone....maybe there has been some unscupulous sales people in the past but thats not the manufactures fault nor is it limited only to Arctic. jeffinwhitby, sorry if it seems like we are getting off topic from your original question,,,, just trying to sort things out. The opinions expressed on this thread represent those of individual authors and unless clearly labeled as such do not represent the opinions or policies of any pool and spa forum member.

Nobody said the waste heat from operating the pump creates insulation.. I am saying that the waste heat does contribute to the reduction of heat loss as long as the heat sources and body of water are contained within the confines of an insulated cabinet..just as it is in this case(insulated cabinet walls and cover). You are correct in saying the pumps don't run long enough to continually supply heat to the water, but as long as the waste heat is within the well insulated area and some of that heat can to be transferred to the body of water or if it slows down the heat loss from the body of water there has to be some benefit to this. Logic. No wasted heat at all. Both methods if done right provide a well insulated tub. All I am saying is that on equally insulated tubs when you utilize the waste heat(as minimal as some may say) and direct it to heating the body of water you use less energy than if you vented that heat into thin air. I didn't mean to turn this into a pro or anti-Arctic thread but Arctic does make sense to me. Obviously Roger doesn't agree. Gotta love forums Roger, with all due respect, I'm not trying to press your buttons. You have so much more knowledge about spas and the inner workings than I ever will and you have helped more people on giving sound advice on this forum than almost anyone. I'm being sincere . However this goes beyond the principals of hot tubs. One example is a home forced air furnace inside a well insulated home. The higher the efficiency the better. The less heat that goes up the chimney, or out the vent = less wasted heat.... Jeff, Sorry if this makes things more of a mess. All the brands you mentioned are high quality. WET TEST! ....