Pvc Leak

[TheCoach1959]

Hello,

I have an inground pool, 2 years old. My Pentair pump had to be replaced about 1 year ago.

1 week ago I noticed that the pump was not running. The Pentair rep came out and replaced the drive.

He noticed some leaks (minor) around the PVC and suggested I call the builder.

The builder says that leaks are at PVC nipples, and this is always caused by the pump running dry and

then overheating. Because, they say, I let the pump run dry, this is not a warranty item.

That seems a little far fetched to draw the conclusion that leaks from PVC nipples are always caused by

overheating, caused by pump failure. Is this a fair assessment on their part?

I do not believe that the pump ran dry anyway.

Right after the pool was completed about 2 years ago, I noticed that the pump was running dry.

I called Pentair and they said to prime it and leave set the rpm to the max, which I did.

Ever since then, I have not noticed the pump running dry.

[Pool Clown]

It's a hard one to prove. Builder can't tell for sure that you let the pump run dry or it was something else. That is usually why they start to leak, However, that is not the only way they can leak.

If the plumbing moved independently of the pump. It wouldn't take much movement in some cases.

If a valve was closed for a period of time, "dead heading" the pump, that could cause a leak.

Or, improper installation of the threaded fitting into the pump, but usually that will show itself rather quickly.

Is this pump leaking water?, or are you seeing air thru the pump lid?

[TheCoach1959]

It's a hard one to prove. Builder can't tell for sure that you let the pump run dry or it was something else. That is usually why they start to leak, However, that is not the only way they can leak.

If the plumbing moved independently of the pump. It wouldn't take much movement in some cases.

If a valve was closed for a period of time, "dead heading" the pump, that could cause a leak.

Or, improper installation of the threaded fitting into the pump, but usually that will show itself rather quickly.

Is this pump leaking water?, or are you seeing air thru the pump lid?

Thanks for posting your thoughts. The pump is not leaking water. The leaks from the pvc pipe are very minor. I thought it was just dew or condensation and didn't think anything of it. The Pentair tech was the one who mentioned a leak and that we should contact the builder. I think he may have been rationalizing why 2 of their pumps have needed servicing in 2 years. But now that he's brought it up, I'm concerned that they will refuse to honor the warranty "next time", unless the "leak" is fixed. Now the builder says the leak is not covered by the warranty. Basically, I don't trust either one of them.

[Pool Clown]

Did Pentair really tell you to ramp the pump up to the max RPM and leave it there? Thats crazy. When those are maxed out like that, thats equivalent to a 3 1/2 hp pump.

The pump running dry had nothing to do with the drive failing, so i hope the tech didnt try to blame it on that. Note: It's been quite hard to get these new motors to run hot. The size of the cooling fan on the motor is ridiculous, However, it gets the job done.

Is the pump Beige, or Black? If it's Black, they should have used the unions that were supplied with the pump, they seem to take heat from running dry better than the threaded fitting(s). Not to say the unions won't fail if subject to heat for too long.

[TheCoach1959]

Did Pentair really tell you to ramp the pump up to the max RPM and leave it there? Thats crazy. When those are maxed out like that, thats equivalent to a 3 1/2 hp pump.

The pump running dry had nothing to do with the drive failing, so i hope the tech didnt try to blame it on that. Note: It's been quite hard to get these new motors to run hot. The size of the cooling fan on the motor is ridiculous, However, it gets the job done.

Is the pump Beige, or Black? If it's Black, they should have used the unions that were supplied with the pump, they seem to take heat from running dry better than the threaded fitting(s). Not to say the unions won't fail if subject to heat for too long.

Thanks again for your input.

The Pentair rep who told me to ramp it up was phone support. We ran it that way for probably a year (with the pump never running dry).

The Pentair rep who visited said it was way too high, although he didn't blame the high rpm for the drive failure or overheating. He set it

to a lower speed, and sure enough, the next day I noticed that it was dry. So I primed it, and ramped it up again.

Would a tiny leak cause this kind of issue? Could this indicate some kind of problem with the plumbing the builder put in?

Our pool is about 17,000 gallons. The pump is beige; an Intelliflow 4x160.

[Pool Clown]

Would a tiny leak cause this kind of issue?

Maybe, a tiny leak can cause the pump to drain out(over time). There is some reason for the pump draining out over night.

Could this indicate some kind of problem with the plumbing the builder put in?

Depends on what is causing the over night drain down. Make sure the pump is totally full and set to the lowered speed that the service man set it to, when it shuts off for the night. After it stops running, whatch the glass lid and see if bubbles are comming up and collecting in the lid. Go out in the morning and turn on the pump manually (do this before the pump is set to go on in the morning) and see if it catches prime by itself, or doesn't do anything for say 2-3 min.

[TheCoach1959]

Would a tiny leak cause this kind of issue?

Maybe, a tiny leak can cause the pump to drain out(over time). There is some reason for the pump draining out over night.

Could this indicate some kind of problem with the plumbing the builder put in?

Depends on what is causing the over night drain down. Make sure the pump is totally full and set to the lowered speed that the service man set it to, when it shuts off for the night. After it stops running, whatch the glass lid and see if bubbles are comming up and collecting in the lid. Go out in the morning and turn on the pump manually (do this before the pump is set to go on in the morning) and see if it catches prime by itself, or doesn't do anything for say 2-3 min.

After shutting down the pump. I can see water through the glass lid...nearly full. It does a brief gurgle every once and a while. I went back out about 20 minutes later and water still there, but a little less. I went out about 2 hours later and even less water. So I guess a slow leak somewhere, but I cannot determine where.

So ultimately, I guess this will come down to whether I can prove sloppy workmanship on the part of the builder.

Thanks for the advice Pool Clown.

[Pool Clown]

If that pump ran dry long enough cause the threaded INLET fitting to leak, the outlet should be leaking as well. If the out let is not leaking, the BP cannot use the excuse that YOU let it run dry.

[quantumchromodynamics]

If you trust the builder, ask them to come out and fix the leak.

Tell them that if they determine that the leak was their fault, then there will be no charge, and if they determine that the leak was not their fault, then you will pay for the repair.

If you don't trust the builder, then get another service person to fix the leak and advise you as to whether or not the leak was caused by builder error or by improper operation.

If the service person advises you that the builder was at fault, you can ask the builder to pay the bill.

[Pool Clown]

Another thing to check is the pump pot lid o ring. The o ring, grove, and mating surface of the lid must be completely free of any debris, etc. That particular design is not forgiving at all when it comes to this unlike some of Pentair's other pumps.

Thought of something else. Having run that pump so high may have caused the seeping of water at the outlet connection or test plug (down low on the pump).

[TheCoach1959]

If that pump ran dry long enough cause the threaded INLET fitting to leak, the outlet should be leaking as well. If the out let is not leaking, the BP cannot use the excuse that YOU let it run dry.

I was able to find the link. It is on the inlet. No link on the outlet.

Just to make sure I understand, please correct me if I'm wrong.

There is a horizontal piece of PVC going into the debris basket at the pump. There is no leak here. This is what I'm calling the outlet (water leaving the pool).

There is a leak on the vertical piece of PVC that is attached more to the main body of the pump.

More precisely right on the lower part of the nipple going into the pump.

[Pool Clown]

There is a horizontal piece of PVC going into the debris basket at the pump.

That is the inlet.

There is no leak here.

Normally, you wouldn't see water leaking here but air being drawn in that you could see through the glass lid.

There is a leak on the vertical piece of PVC that is attached more to the main body of the pump.

This is the outlet. Has this been leaking a long time? Or did it recently start?