New To Tubs And This Form

[Khenic]

Hi everybody! My name's Ken and I'm new to hot tubs as I just bought my first home! I live in Canada, and though I live way down south in canada (Windsor, ON) it still get's cold here. Being soo close to the american border, though I'm canadian we tend to use Fahrenheit instead of Celcius, though the news uses the correct Celcius is that weird or what?

Anyways I'll get to the point, it gets cold and a night like tonight is 14 F, or -10 C and I can't help but think if you go tubbing in temps like this that you're just losing TONNES of heat from your tub and using tonnes of electricity. How efficient are hot tubs? I think I have a Beachcomber tub based on finding a 'doo-dad' that said Beachcomber on it. It looks like it seats 4 or so.

I can tell you that it's on 110V and 40A service. How much extra will this tub be adding to my monthly electricity expenses?

We have 2 bottles of chemicals that I know of. I forgot to take a really good look at them tonight as we were painting a bedroom. I do remember one bottle had a PH table on the lable.

Where can I expect to find the branding for the tub?

Thanks for any help. P.S. meant to say 'forum' in thread title

[simonc]

Ken -

Welcome to the forum. I am also a relatively new member ... I joined a few months ago. I've learned a lot since joining and want to share some information that really helped me.

First off ... I can't help you with your electric bill question. I live near San Francisco, CA so we rarely get freezing temperatures. However, I can tell you the following about maintaining the water in your tub:

1. The BEST overview of making sure your water is safe (no dangerous bacteria/viruses) and comfortable is Nitro's writeup. Click here to read it. The article is long and seems rather intimidating but once you start using the diclor-then-bleach method you'll see how easy it really is. Focus on the summary section in the article. The bulk of the article explains why you need to do what's in the summary section. It takes a while to absorb this information.

2. Get a good water test kit. Dealers often provide "test strips". These are OK for quickly checking if your chlorine and pH are OK just before you jump into the tub, but they are useless for setting up your tub and monitoring the water condition. The Taylor K-2006 kit is what I and many others on this forum use. It costs about $50-60 US. Most likely you'll have order it on the internet because very few dealers carry such a comprehensive kit. (This tells you two things: 1. Most people don't maintain their water properly. 2. Many dealers offer "witch doctor" advice instead of information based on accurate water measurements.) The K-2006 kit comes in various "flavors" depending on the sanitizing method you use. If you use chlorine get the kit for that.

3. Water safety is IMPORTANT!!! Until I joined this forum I didn't realize that you can actually get sick from water that is not properly sanitized. Dealers will sell you all types of chemicals to make up for poor water maintenance (anti-foam and water clarifier are two examples). In the past my water would start to turn cloudy or foam (often an indicator that you've got some "bug" or algae growing in your tub) and I would just add some "magic" stuff to make the water look good. Also, there are many bogus "natural" sanitation methods/products on the market that aren't certified as sanitizers. You can get yourself or your guests sick if you don't maintain the proper level of certified sanitizer in your tub. Personally, I like the diclor-then-bleach method. It seems to be the easiest (and also the cheapest!) way to make sure your tub is safe.

4. Along with point #3 above, a hot tub is NOT a small swimming pool. Because of the high temperatures and the relatively small amount of water compared to the number of bathers, things can quickly go bad in a hot tub in a matter of less than one day. If at the beginning, you set up your water properly (as suggested in Nitro's overview) and then make sure that sanitizer and pH levels are properly maintained, you will have fewer problems and maintenance will be much easier. Your water will be safer, feel better, and last longer (don't need to refill as often).

Good luck,

- Simon

[Khenic]

Thanks for the reply simonc. Today while at the new house my fiancee checked the water with a ph stick and said that the ph checked out fine, but our chlorine ppm was low. She said she's going to throw a puck in tomrrow. (She's got a pool at her parents whereas I'm not familiar with either). I think we're also going to get in touch with a pool/spa place and see what they say.

Is it basically a no brainer that we shower before we use it?

Thanks.

[quantumchromodynamics]

Today while at the new house my fiancee checked the water with a ph stick and said that the ph checked out fine, but our chlorine ppm was low. She said she's going to throw a puck in tomrrow. (She's got a pool at her parents whereas I'm not familiar with either).

Throwing in a puck does not sound like a good thing to do. Can you elaborate on what you mean by that?

[simonc]

Thanks for the reply simonc. Today while at the new house my fiancee checked the water with a ph stick and said that the ph checked out fine, but our chlorine ppm was low. She said she's going to throw a puck in tomrrow. (She's got a pool at her parents whereas I'm not familiar with either). I think we're also going to get in touch with a pool/spa place and see what they say.

Is it basically a no brainer that we shower before we use it?

Thanks.

Ken -

I hate to say this, but I think you are already on the wrong track that will lead toward water quality problems, spa equipment problems, and maybe even make you itch (hot tub rash) or make you sick.

As I said, the #1 priority has to be water safety, i.e., making sure your sanitation level (chlorine) is sufficient. It looks like you are already having problems with this.

If your fiance (congratulations on your engagement!) is treating the hot tub like a pool, you're going to have more problems. If she's throwing in a pool size (3 inch diameter) "puck" of chlorine, you will probably have too much chlorine in your tub. Even if she's using the hot tub size "pucks" (1 inch diameter) you can also have problems. These "pucks" (assuming that they are what I think they are) are designed to be used in a floater that slowly releases the chlorine.

My suggestion: Read Nitro's article. There's a link to it in my original response to your question.

Lastly, showering before you go into the tub is probably a good idea, but not really necessary (unless you are very dirty/sweaty). You can shower all you want, but if you don't have the proper level of sanitizer in the tub, your water can turn dangerous. Because of the high temperatures (unlike a swimming pool) your water can turn in less than one day.

Again, good luck ... it sounds like you'll need it.

- Simon

[Khenic]

Hi guys, thanks for the replies. No my fiancee is going to throw in a puck from a bottle of hot tub pucks we have in the garage. I'm going to be heading there today in a few hours and I'll make sure to write down what it is that we have from the previous owners. We checked the water yesterday and like I said the ph was ok (going by the bottle) but chlorine ppm was indicated to be low. The water at the time was clear (dunno if that tells you anything).

I'll bring my iBook with me, maybe I can pick up someone else's wi-fi signal until we get our hook ups, if not I'll report back what it is the previous owners left us, and hopefully what model of tub we have.

[gman]

Ken,

It sounds like you are relying on the results from test strips to determine the initial condition of your tub water. Test strips are highly (repeat, highly) unreliable. The water test results indicated from test strips can be significantly different than the readings from a good drop test kit. I've confirmed this myself by comparing the results of several test strips to the results I had just taken with my drop test kit. None of the test strips matched the drop test results and the test strips themselves varied considerably from each other.

Simonc suggested you get a test kit. He is referring to a drop test kit, not the test 'kit' usually supplied by dealers, which just includes test strips or sticks. If you read threads on this forum, many experienced tubbers recommend Taylor Industries test kits. I recommend you get one of the Taylor test kits and then consider Nitro's decontamination procedure. I believe you will save yourself time and money in the long run plus you will have peace of mind knowing your not tubbing in a large petrie dish. Follow Nitro's water balancing instructions and use your Taylor test kit to fine-tune your water chemistry. In a short time, you will have clean, clear and sanitized water in your hot tub. Maintaining sanitized water will be easy.

Rather than mess around with suspect water based on questionable information, just start from scratch and do it right from the get go. Happy Tubbing.

BTW, I am not associated with Taylor Industries in any way other than as a consumer of their products for my own hot tub.

gman

Why is there never enough time to do it right the first time, but always time enough to do it over?

[Mikey_in_NY]

I can tell you that it's on 110V and 40A service. How much extra will this tub be adding to my monthly electricity expenses?

Ken,

Are you sure about these electric supply figures?

110V typically uses a 20A circuit, and 220V anything from 40A to 60A.

[NewB@Spa]

Ken - please I implore you - for the safety of your family and your guests. Get a drop/DPD test kit. Either Taylor K-2006 or TF-100 (this is the one I opted for - it is your choice). I too was a lost lamb...I bought my tub about 6 months ago and tried in vain to balance my tub with dealer supplied chems and test strips. I just did my first refill and I am using the Dichlor/Bleach method from Nitro. This forum has been a blessing, after 6 months I was almost ready to get rid of my brand new tub! Maybe I did not catch it, but did you mention if this tub was new or used? If it is used I would recommend you decontaminate (again using Nitro's instructions). It seems a little like overkill, but you will be please with the result. It will cost you about $100 USD to get the right test kit, chems to get you going back in the right direction.

[simonc]

I'm going to be heading there today in a few hours and I'll make sure to write down what it is that we have from the previous owners.

Ken - It appears that your tub is a previously used tub. That's OK, but you should decontaminate the tub BEFORE you use it. Click on this link to read the article on how to decontaminate.

Your tub may look clean, but you can't see what's in the pipes. Depending on how the tub was maintained, there may be micro-organisms growing inside your spa pipes. The bottom line is that you do NOT know what's in there and, therefore, the safest thing to do is to decontaminate the tub before you use it.

By the way ... congratulations on your new home ...

- Simon

[Khenic]

Thanks every, and Simonc for all your help.

Well we looked at the tub a bit more last night, as well as the chemicals we had. We have the small 1" chlorine pucks for spas. We have a bottle of the ph test strips and we also have a bottle of another chemical which claims it will make your water clear.

The tub is a beachcomber and it appears to be a bit older. In the immediate left corner from the deck is the nameplate and the corner is flattened with what appears to be about 5 drink holder spots. There's 2 buttons which are a bit firm to press down, 1 for the 1 lights, 1 for the jets. There are also 2 large flat chrome dials which I am not sure what they do. At the side of this molded drink holder corner is a cover plate where it appears a filter and the plate are half dangling off and there a bit of surface rust on the plate. So ya, this thing needs a bit of TLC. There is also a filter sitting at the bottom of the tub. It looks like a cylindrical air filter to me honestly. We also found the floating chlorine puck dispenser.

The house was on the market for possibly 6-8 months so I have no idea of when it was actually used last. I would love to drain it to start anew, but it's cold and I feel I'm too new to tubs to tray draining it in these temperatures.

What should we do in the meantime? We'd like to get the filter parts out of the bottom and check all those out.

Thanks again everyone.

[Khenic]

Oh I was wondering. I was thinking of taking some pictures of the tub today, can I post pictures on this forum?

[pkillur]

Oh I was wondering. I was thinking of taking some pictures of the tub today, can I post pictures on this forum?

Yes - upload them to some picture sharing website (flickr or photobucket or your own...) Then hit reply and click on the "picture" looking icon. It's kinda small and next to the arrow with the plus on it.

I am also imploring you to sanitize your tub a time or two. I got my hot tub from my father in law and he hadn't taken proper care of it (he assumed the ozonator would get 'most' of the 'stuff' in the water) and hardly used any sanitizer. Nitro's water guide is very long, but you will learn SO MUCH from it. Take an hour or two and read through the WHOLE THING, as in the replies, etc.

Also, I would recommend the following:

Taylor Kit! The difference between the taylor and the dip strips is AMAZING - strips suck and yours might be expired (look on the bottom of the tube they are in). If the chemicals were outside, my thought is to throw them away...

New dichlor granules.

SPA FLUSH... It's an enzymatic cleaner - google it, my preferred seller is spadepot, but you might find a local vendor which sells them.

Get the test kit and see what the water from whatever you're filling up is (ph high / low, FC level, cc, etc).

Then nuke your tub with the decontamination guide and use spa flush (I like it a whole lot better than swirl away because it's enzymatic and doesn't have TSP, so it's less harsh on you + wherever you dump your tub). It smells better too, but that's a really dumb reason to pick a cleaner!

Get or borrow a net to scoop out the crap that might come out of your plumbing (I had a ton, you might not...)

Dump tub, and follow the nitro water guide.

As a bonus, if you stick around long enough to read a bunch of chem_geek, QCD, and Nitro's posts you can get a PhD in chemistry (J/K but you will learn SO much - and you will never ever use a hot tub that isn't your own probably )

[simonc]

Ken -

I think pkillur's advice is excellent. I would NOT use the tub until you decontaminate it, which involves draining it (at least twice).

It may be best to wait until the weather warms and leave the tub in some type of "hibernation" state??? I don't know. I know NOTHING about draining and maintaining a tub in freezing temperatures. Hopefully, someone in this forum from the "frozen north" can give you some advice on how you should best handle the situation.

(If no one responds to the cold weather issue in this current thread, you might consider posting a new thread with a specific title about maintaining a tub in freezing temperatures. That issue is not evident based on your current thread title.)

It's great that your new home has a tub. I hope you and your fiance will enjoy both.

Best wishes,

- Simon

[NewB@Spa]

You might find that you have freeze/thaw issues if some sort of maintenance temp has not been maintained. So you are probably better off waiting until spring when you can really tell what is going on. Then you definately want to fire it up and add spa flush (I used it, you would be amazed at the crud it gets out). Follow Nitro's decon to the T. It seems a little awe inspiring, but you will get the hang. Throw out the chems, strips and start new. Again wait until you fire it up and make sure it is worth going through all the necessary steps. I emptied mine recently (NE USA), but the temps were in the 40s. Much easier. Also make things a little easier and get a small submersible pump. My 425 gallons took about an hour.

[kiamo]

Hi,

I can vouch for the pump idea. I live in a cold environment too. There's a large selection. Even some you can connect to a drill. (might be a little rough on the drill tho')

They'll move water fast anyways. But at the same time, too cold is just too cold.

[NewB@Spa]

You can get a 1/6 hp pump for about $70 USD at any of the big box home centers

[Khenic]

Thanks for the replies guys. I think we're going to hold off for a little while until the weather warms up. We're also going to go to a spar place and see what they say, and chances are pick up some new chemicals too. Don't worry though, we're not going to bathe in it until we find out more about what we're doing and hopefully drain it and get new water in it (helps my peace of mind).

[NewB@Spa]

That is your best course. Happy tubbing and come on back when you are ready to fill.

[Khenic]

Hi everybody! I'm still around, sorry for no replies, it's just we finally moved and we didn't have the internet for almost 2 weeks. We still have the tub though!! When I have more time I will read through any newer replies anyone left and we'll soon discuss how we're going to handle the hot tub. It's still cold and snowy here.