Slow Leak Under 95' Hotspring Grandee Spa

[AMG]

About every 24 hours or so it seems I may lose about .5 to 1" of water out of my spa. If I look inside the compartment, I see that where the WaveMaster pump's have their bleeder lines going in to the floor, that there is always water that slowly pools up in those holes, then comes in to the compartment and eventually runs out the side. I used my wet/dry shop vac and dried the compartment out and within 10 seconds or so I see a little water start to come out of those little holes where the vinyl hose goes down under the spa.

I replaced all the vinyl tubing/hose inside the compartment for the circ pump and heater. I can see that the hose for the bleeder on the pumps is very yellow, old and brittle.

My questions for you experts on HotSpring spa's are...

1. what is the purpose of the bleeder lines off the heater and both large WaveMaster pumps? I know if the lines are disconnected, water shoots out of those bleeder holes

2. once these lines go under the spa, where exactly do they go? I have a concrete slab that the spa sits on. I purchased the home and this was all already in place by previous owner. Is there likely a drain installed under the spa that these lines go to?

3. what is your recommendation to fix this? I figured I would have to drain the spa and then disconnect the power. Then with a few guys help (how many is needed, how heavy is this thing empty?) we can turn it on its side. Then would I be able to clearly see the bleeder vinyl hoses and be able to run new line? I can buy 30 feet of this stuff and replace it all as long as I can get to it and this is the root of the problem.

Any recommendations are greatly appreciated. I am fine with the labor of flipping it it on it's side and replacing the tubing, as long as it isnt some insane amount of work. I like having the spa tip-top shape. But if the undertaking to fix this is some crazy work like digging ALL the foam out, etc. Maybe my option should be Fix-a-leak? you tell me...

This seems to be the last problem with my Spa. After this, as soon as I get the cover, this should be ready for me to enjoy!

Thank you so much!

[Dan.The.Spa.Man]

unfortunately, the water is more than likely not coming from that actual hose.

The leak is probably coming from something else. The water fills up all of the foam like a sponge, then it starts to seep out through the lowest possible point, which happens to be where that hose comes out.

I would check for leaks around the light lens, and check for small hair-line cracks in the shell in the area above the motor compartment and around the light lens. They will look like a small black hair.

[AMG]

unfortunately, the water is more than likely not coming from that actual hose.

The leak is probably coming from something else. The water fills up all of the foam like a sponge, then it starts to seep out through the lowest possible point, which happens to be where that hose comes out.

I would check for leaks around the light lens, and check for small hair-line cracks in the shell in the area above the motor compartment and around the light lens. They will look like a small black hair.

Interesting...

When it was empty, I remember seeing some small tiny cracks down near the light lense that looked like they had been fixed, but the crack was sorta still there. They were really really thin. The spa guy who i had over (who ripped me off and didn't do crap for me might I add) said that it looked like someone fixed it at some point, but I don't think so

I ran that Jet Clean through it tonight and will drain it in the morning. I will take a photo of that area tomorrow and post it up for your review. If that looks like a real issue, then I'll look for your advice on proper ways to fix it.

Thank you again for offering your time and services to those on the forum (me). I really do appreciate it.

***EDIT***

I'm going to drain it tonight in the dark. I'll hook up the hose and let it do its thing. In the morning I'll photo it for you. Thanks

[AMG]

When I came out this morning, the spa was nearly drained. It was right at the level where the cracks are in the bottom. It wasn't below them, but right at the top of them (so what maybe 3" of water in the bottom of the spa max). I did notice that there was no water outside of my spa. The leak must have stopped and all the water evaporated. So I wonder if the leak is from the cracks and the fact that there was very little water pressure (the weight of all those hundreds of gallons above it) was why no water was coming out (or maybe it is now coming out sooo unbelievably slow it never makes it to the bottom to drain out)? It was below the light fixture, maybe that is a possibility? I remember when it was full and I was looking in by the light, I never saw water coming in there, but I am not sure how the light assembly fits in, maybe there is a middle area where water could drain down? No idea.

It's still kind of dark out on the spa side of the house (8:15 am I took the photos). When it gets really bright out, I can take better photos.

Your advice again is greatly appreciated. Should I try Marine Text on those cracks? Would it seem wise to try to use a razor blade and pick off the old yellowed agent (probably marine tex, right)? or use a piece of sand paper and try to rough that up? Then can I simply apply marine text, work it in to the crack a bit, then leave a layer on top of the crack and call it a day? I haven't used it before, and never anything on a spa, so not sure of proper preparation for it.

:::EDIT:::

I did notice that the jet that is right beside the light (it's big), the outside ring spins freely. I thought I would tighten it up, but it just spins. The jet works fine, but it spun around and I don't know if that is an issue? The other 2 big ones by the feet were a little lose, I righty-tighty them and they got real snug.

[AMG]

I took a photo today and adjusted the exposure so that you can better see the cracks (the exposure adjustment will help accentuate the crack for you). Do you think this is likely the cause of the leak? I am going to run out now to West Marine and buy the Marine Text epoxy. I just need to know the best way to prep this so that the bond is as good as possible.

[Dnepr Dave]

Epoxy isn't UV stable. If your repaired area gets a lot of sun, it may degrade. It would be a good idea to paint the area of the repair. Better still, if you can get at the other side of the damaged site, clean it up and sand the surface then apply the epoxy, you would not have to mess with paint at all and the repair would look better (just hairline cracks, not a painted patch)

Dave

[AMG]

Epoxy isn't UV stable. If your repaired area gets a lot of sun, it may degrade. It would be a good idea to paint the area of the repair. Better still, if you can get at the other side of the damaged site, clean it up and sand the surface then apply the epoxy, you would not have to mess with paint at all and the repair would look better (just hairline cracks, not a painted patch)

Dave

It should get next to no sun (cover on it and I expect to use it really mostly at night and not every day). I bought this home in September and have already put in $1300 in to the spa in replacement parts and have yet to even use it. I am going to clean up the area, sand to give it a surface to adhere to, clean again and then put the Marine Tex in the crack and try to seal it up good. I may tackle the project larger next year if I want, but for now I just want the thing to start working and giving me some return on my $ Thank you for your suggestion, I appreciate the feedback.

[Peteyboy]

The best way to repair the cracks is from behind.

[Dan.The.Spa.Man]

Yeah, if it's just 1 small crack and the customer doesn't want to spend much time or money repairing it, I'll sometimes use some devcon on the shell.

With the amount of cracks there (4-5) you will probably see a bunch more stress cracks from behind if you expose the area. You would need to cut out the back "false"wall of the motor compartment, and use fiberglass material to give it some support with devcon/permalite over it.

[AMG]

I want to say that I have a new leak now. I don't recall ever seeing this leak before. I don't see the water pooling up from under anymore and the spa is running fine. I am "guessing" those cracks were the culprit before.

Where does this spa hose go to and how could this have a leak?

I will say that when I had everything drained I did try turning some of the big plastic outside bezel to the jets. One (the one next to the light) just spins and spins. Maybe if that is the source of this hose, maybe there is an o-ring or something that is sora hosed or lose, or needs to be wiped with silicone grease (spa/pool stuff)? I had the spa filled up, running the circ pump for about 15-20 minutes, no leak anywhere. I turned the jets on and a few minutes later i noticed this slow leak (photo below). ideas?

I was checking online. I did notice that the front face spun around pretty easily.. It didnt seem to come out when going counter clockwise? Maybe this is what I need? hmm?

http://www.backyardplus.com/proddetail.php...437&cat=168

[Dan.The.Spa.Man]

Although I have replaced some jets on these tubs, it's not so many that I remember off hand if the bezel on that jet holds the backside of the jet and the O'ring together. Those o'rings themselves do not usually fail due to being quite thick, but it is possible.

It's more likely that there is a fitting somewhere close to that area with a glue joint leak or something like that.

Does it keep pouring out or is just a slight trickle and not constant? It could be residual water in the foam left over from the cracks. The vibration of the pump and water through the lines sometimes squeezes water out of the foam for a while after a repair.

[AMG]

Although I have replaced some jets on these tubs, it's not so many that I remember off hand if the bezel on that jet holds the backside of the jet and the O'ring together. Those o'rings themselves do not usually fail due to being quite thick, but it is possible.

It's more likely that there is a fitting somewhere close to that area with a glue joint leak or something like that.

Does it keep pouring out or is just a slight trickle and not constant? It could be residual water in the foam left over from the cracks. The vibration of the pump and water through the lines sometimes squeezes water out of the foam for a while after a repair.

It is a very very slow trickle. You might not know the water is moving, but if you stare closely at it, you'll see it slightly move. My spa looks the same now in the morning (With the water all over the floor in that area) as it did with the leaks from the cracks. Except this time no water coming out of the holes where the bleeder lines go. I guess it wouldn't be the pumps since they haven't been on for the last 10 hours or so and the water is still coming out down there? I wish I had a piping diagram of this spa, then I would know which jet it is going to. I'll try to tighten the fronts on all of them and see if it does any benefit anyhow. Otherwise I gues I am going to have to flip it on its side and track that down, right?

[Dan.The.Spa.Man]

If the flow doesn't change when the jets are off then I would guess that you still have some leaking through the shell or the light lens. Make sure you check the lens over really well from inside the motor compartment. Also, how much repair material did you put over the cracks? Are they completely covered?

If it is a glue joint in a plumbing fitting, it would be impossible to find it with the tub on its side. They can't be found unless the tub is running with water.

[AMG]

If the flow doesn't change when the jets are off then I would guess that you still have some leaking through the shell or the light lens. Make sure you check the lens over really well from inside the motor compartment. Also, how much repair material did you put over the cracks? Are they completely covered?

If it is a glue joint in a plumbing fitting, it would be impossible to find it with the tub on its side. They can't be found unless the tub is running with water.

Those cracks are covered really good. I read about how people sand the material down and make it nice and pretty but I didn't. It's caked on the sides of the cracks and really covers it all really really well. I can't imagine that in any of those cracks I had that any water is getting through. However, I will have to inspect the light even better. I looked at it from the back side the other day and I didn't see any trace of water coming through. You can get to it from the motor compartment and I see all the insulation in between the false wall and the shell and its dry as a bone, looking good.

Yes, I see your point. I guess this is where people have talked about using various dye's to color the insulation around where the crack would be so that when they turn everything off and look that they can locate it if there is no water in it.

[AMG]

I am thinking that maybe I'll drain it and flip it on its side. This thing has to weigh a ton though.. What is the best way to go about putting it on its side? The whole thing is on a concrete slab, so I have room. Is it a multiple man job (I'm 31, ~200lbs, decently strong).

[Dan.The.Spa.Man]

I am thinking that maybe I'll drain it and flip it on its side. This thing has to weigh a ton though.. What is the best way to go about putting it on its side? The whole thing is on a concrete slab, so I have room. Is it a multiple man job (I'm 31, ~200lbs, decently strong).

Usually 2-3 guys....probably 3 with a Grandee and the fact that the foam has filled with water.

[AMG]

Usually 2-3 guys....probably 3 with a Grandee and the fact that the foam has filled with water.

Ah. Okay, I won't touch it.

I have a guy coming over on Saturday that is a spa repair guy and hopefully he and I can get to the root of this problem and get it resolved. Thanks

[BrendanC]

I know this is a long shot with this post being 10 years old, but figured I would try.  I was wondering if you ever found out what the leak was?  I have the same issue where there is water coming from the Wavemaster's bleederline that goes into the floor of the hot tub behind the vinyl.  Any help would be great.