Silk Balance?

[Mark Davis]

I've read a bunch of the archives and still am unclear on this...

As I understand it, you still need to sanitize the pool...so what does this actually replace in a bromine or chlorine system -- just reduces it? If I were not to use this product, it would just require Ph+/Ph-/calcium/etc additions?? Is that what is really gained??

I'd also like to understand what is in it.

From Chem Geek: "Based on the fact that it removes or lowers the mineral content including calcium, I suspect SilkBalance is a phosphate buffer. That would stabilize the pH. It also appears to have surfactants which lower water's surface tension which they claim makes it harder for biofilms to form. They do not supply a sanitizer with it so you'd still need to use one and it's not clear that their product contains anything to oxidize bather waste."

From MCW53: "Silk Balance is not a sanitizer. The only thing it addresses is water balance. You will still need to use a sanitizer (chlorine, bromine or Nature2). If you believe the Silk Balance sales pitch, all you need to do is add 4 oz to your spa every week and it will automatically balance pH, alkalinity and calcium hardness. This stuff is expensive! $200 for a bottle that should last 16 weeks; that's over $50 a month!"

If that is true, would it be more or less healthy to be in?

Thanks, -mark

[mcw53]

Hey Mark,

In any spa, sanitation is your primary concern. Properly maintaining water balance increases the effectiveness of your sanitizer. If SilkBalance works as advertized, I suppose just dumping 4 ounces into your hot tub every week would be easier than checking pH and TA and adjusting if necessary. If that is worth $50/month to you, go for it. We use our spa every day. I check my water balance once a week and end up having to adjust pH and/or TA every 2 to 3 weeks. I probably spend 5 minutes a week on water balance.

Their website states "This revolutionary product eliminates buying & storing confusing multiples of different chemicals from chlorines, bromines, increasers and degreasers". This would seem to imply that their product eliminates the need for sanitizers. I would definitely verify their product is EPA certified before I stopped using a sanitizer. As far as I know, chlorine, bromine, biguanide and Nature2/MPS are the only EPA approved methods of sanitation. I use Nitro's dichlor-then-bleach method and spend less then $2/month on sanitizer (bleach). So even if SilkBalance eliminates or reduces the need for a sanitizer, I'm not going to spend $50 to save $2.

[Mark Davis]

Hey Mark,

In any spa, sanitation is your primary concern. Properly maintaining water balance increases the effectiveness of your sanitizer. If SilkBalance works as advertized, I suppose just dumping 4 ounces into your hot tub every week would be easier than checking pH and TA and adjusting if necessary. If that is worth $50/month to you, go for it. We use our spa every day. I check my water balance once a week and end up having to adjust pH and/or TA every 2 to 3 weeks. I probably spend 5 minutes a week on water balance.

Their website states "This revolutionary product eliminates buying & storing confusing multiples of different chemicals from chlorines, bromines, increasers and degreasers". This would seem to imply that their product eliminates the need for sanitizers. I would definitely verify their product is EPA certified before I stopped using a sanitizer. As far as I know, chlorine, bromine and Nature2/MPS are the only EPA approved methods of sanitation. I use Nitro's dichlor-then-bleach method and spend less then $2/month on sanitizer (bleach). So even if SilkBalance eliminates or reduces the need for a sanitizer, I'm not going to spend $50 to save $2.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply mcw53. Yeah, I am torn...I think in addition to the convenience, I would feel good if the chemicals in silk balance were more safe than the chemicals typically used for Ph+/-, Alkaline, etc.

Yes, you still have to use a sanitizer...I have an ozonator, I am told...I am still torn between spa frog+bromine+MPS/dichlor and Nature2+MPS/dichlor...I don't really want to have to deal with it very often, which is why I like the tablet/bromine system vs. chlorine; however, I also like adding chemicals after (not while I am in) and as such, the bromine system isn't as good in that regard..even if I remove the frog. I liked this link: http://www.rhtubs.com/store/proNcon.htm

The manufacturer told me they were worried about the build-up of junk with SWGs.

-mark

-mark

[mcw53]

Thanks for the thoughtful reply mcw53. Yeah, I am torn...I think in addition to the convenience, I would feel good if the chemicals in silk balance were more safe than the chemicals typically used for Ph+/-, Alkaline, etc.

Yes, you still have to use a sanitizer...I have an ozonator, I am told...I am still torn between spa frog+bromine+MPS/dichlor and Nature2+MPS/dichlor...I don't really want to have to deal with it very often, which is why I like the tablet/bromine system vs. chlorine; however, I also like adding chemicals after (not while I am in) and as such, the bromine system isn't as good in that regard..even if I remove the frog. I liked this link: http://www.rhtubs.com/store/proNcon.htm

The manufacturer told me they were worried about the build-up of junk with SWGs.

-mark

I have no idea what's in silk balance, but the chemicals I use for balancing my water are quite innocuous. At each new fill, I add 50 ppm borates. The only ongoing adjustment I need is to occasionally adjust alkalinity up to keep my pH where I want it. I use baking soda for this. What could be safer than borax and baking soda?

I have a 2009 Hot Spring Envoy hot tub with an ozonator. After a couple months of struggling with BaquaSpa, I found this forum and switched to a chlorine-based sanitation method. I do have a Nature2 cartridge and started out with their low-chlorine recipe. Sounds like I was afraid of chlorine, doesn't it. Well, I did have the common misconceptions. I have spent countless hours educating myself reading this forum. The posts by Nitro and chem geek have been particularly helpful. I am now a firm believer in the dichlor-then-bleach method of sanitation. I still use the Nature2 cartridge, but it is more of an insurance policy than my primary method. I'm still on the learning curve, but think I have found the proper mix of MPS and bleach that results in a very stable pH. I use SeaKlear MPS (45.2% potassium peroxymonosulfate) which is very pure (unbuffered) and slightly acidic. This counteracts the pH rise that normally accompanies the dichlor-then-bleach method. I still find that my pH drops over time and I have to add 3-4 tablespoons of baking soda every 2-3 weeks.

One thing that has really helped me is chem geek's rule of thumb regarding sanitizer/oxidizer needed per person-hour of soaking. For every person-hour of soak time you need to add 3.5 teaspoons of dichlor or 5 fluid ounces of 6% unscented bleach or 7 teaspoons of 43% MPS. I generally add the MPS and/or bleach after soaking. Adjust quantities such that you have residual free chlorine (0.5-1.0 ppm) prior to your next soak.

I also add 1 ounce of SeaKlear's Natural Clarifier every week.

I have used this method since my last fill about 3 months ago and my water is as sparkling clear and odor-free as on day one.

[Mark Davis]

Thanks for the thoughtful reply mcw53. Yeah, I am torn...I think in addition to the convenience, I would feel good if the chemicals in silk balance were more safe than the chemicals typically used for Ph+/-, Alkaline, etc.

Yes, you still have to use a sanitizer...I have an ozonator, I am told...I am still torn between spa frog+bromine+MPS/dichlor and Nature2+MPS/dichlor...I don't really want to have to deal with it very often, which is why I like the tablet/bromine system vs. chlorine; however, I also like adding chemicals after (not while I am in) and as such, the bromine system isn't as good in that regard..even if I remove the frog. I liked this link: http://www.rhtubs.com/store/proNcon.htm

The manufacturer told me they were worried about the build-up of junk with SWGs.

-mark

I have no idea what's in silk balance, but the chemicals I use for balancing my water are quite innocuous. At each new fill, I add 50 ppm borates. The only ongoing adjustment I need is to occasionally adjust alkalinity up to keep my pH where I want it. I use baking soda for this. What could be safer than borax and baking soda?

I have a 2009 Hot Spring Envoy hot tub with an ozonator. After a couple months of struggling with BaquaSpa, I found this forum and switched to a chlorine-based sanitation method. I do have a Nature2 cartridge and started out with their low-chlorine recipe. Sounds like I was afraid of chlorine, doesn't it. Well, I did have the common misconceptions. I have spent countless hours educating myself reading this forum. The posts by Nitro and chem geek have been particularly helpful. I am now a firm believer in the dichlor-then-bleach method of sanitation. I still use the Nature2 cartridge, but it is more of an insurance policy than my primary method. I'm still on the learning curve, but think I have found the proper mix of MPS and bleach that results in a very stable pH. I use SeaKlear MPS (45.2% potassium peroxymonosulfate) which is very pure (unbuffered) and slightly acidic. This counteracts the pH rise that normally accompanies the dichlor-then-bleach method. I still find that my pH drops over time and I have to add 3-4 tablespoons of baking soda every 2-3 weeks.

One thing that has really helped me is chem geek's rule of thumb regarding sanitizer/oxidizer needed per person-hour of soaking. For every person-hour of soak time you need to add 3.5 teaspoons of dichlor or 5 fluid ounces of 6% unscented bleach or 7 teaspoons of 43% MPS. I generally add the MPS and/or bleach after soaking. Adjust quantities such that you have residual free chlorine (0.5-1.0 ppm) prior to your next soak.

I also add 1 ounce of SeaKlear's Natural Clarifier every week.

I have used this method since my last fill about 3 months ago and my water is as sparkling clear and odor-free as on day one.

Thanks for the advice Mike. How important is clarifier?

What brands are best for Ph+ and Ph- ?

I have been searching and reading posts by the two folks you mentioned as well...super informative...I'm still trying to decide what to use...I am fascinated by the SWCGs...but am worried about corrosion.

At this point, I am *not* planning to use Silk Balance...I'd need to run my filter system for 8+ hours a day and that was not recommended by Maax (OK for Hotsprings w/constantly running filter pumps). Now I just want the best Ph+/Ph-...baking soda sounds good for +.

-mark

[mcw53]

I didn't start using a clarifier until after almost 3 months on my current fill. We had a lot of guests for a week or so and afterwards I was having difficulty getting the water back to the clarity I was used to. I read several threads in this forum that mentioned how effective SeaKlear Natural Clarifier was. I am a firm believer that the less you put in the spa, the better. So I did my research and was convinced that this product would do no harm. It's active ingredient is a natural cellulose-like fiber. I like natural. Anyway, I got some and put 2 ounces in my 450 gallon spa. Within 24 hours, the water was back to the clarity I wanted. I now add 1 ounce per week. BTW, I have a 24x7 filtration system (Hot Spring). As far as I can tell, it has no effect on pH. I really like this product. You can find a bunch of info online by Googling it. Here's a one-pager fact sheet.

[quantumchromodynamics]

Now I just want the best Ph+/Ph-...baking soda sounds good for +.

It is usually best not to try to directly adjust your pH. I think that it is better to adjust your alkalinity to the point where the pH automatically balances. Use baking soda to increase total alkalinity and muriatic acid to lower alkalinity.

If your pH is constantly low, then your alkalinity is too low. If your pH is constantly high, then your alkalinity is too high. If your pH is staying consistently where you want it to, then your alkalinity is just right.

Adding 50 ppm borates (From Borax or boric acid) will also help stabilize your pH.

[Mark Davis]

Now I just want the best Ph+/Ph-...baking soda sounds good for +.

It is usually best not to try to directly adjust your pH. I think that it is better to adjust your alkalinity to the point where the pH automatically balances. Use baking soda to increase total alkalinity and muriatic acid to lower alkalinity.

If your pH is constantly low, then your alkalinity is too low. If your pH is constantly high, then your alkalinity is too high. If your pH is staying consistently where you want it to, then your alkalinity is just right.

Adding 50 ppm borates (From Borax or boric acid) will also help stabilize your pH.

Thanks, that's an interesting approach. Do people use Borates w/o Bromine?

What are the best brands for baking soda? What about soda ash? I'd like to get my spa in a state where it never needs muriatic acid...

[Nitro]

Thanks, that's an interesting approach. Do people use Borates w/o Bromine?

What are the best brands for baking soda? What about soda ash? I'd like to get my spa in a state where it never needs muriatic acid...

If you read the Water Balance section in the link below, it will explain more in detail. Yes, Borates are recommended with Chlorine also.

Arm & Hammer Baking Soda and Acid is all you need. You don't need Soda Ash. Not likely you'll get to where you never need Acid or BS, but you can get it where you'll rarely need them.

[caitland]

I am confused about this Silk Balance thing. I've been following what everyone has said on the forum, but all that happens is that I go around in circles on this whole thing.

Silk Balance seems to be the same thing as the new formula Aquagarde. It may even look the same, a whitish solution. Some websites indicate that Silk Balance is a registered product, others that it's trademarked. I can't find an EPA number or anything that indicates it is accountable to the public or a public agency.

The problem is that there are no ingredients listed on the bottle...so what's in it? I've looked at everything online that I can find on this stuff and all the websites say the same thing...it's silky, it's natural, it's environmentally friendly, it's easy...but how does anyone know that it's environmentally friendly if no one knows what chemicals are in the stuff? One website said that it should be kept away from children which suggests that children shouldn't drink the stuff or play in it. But, if a kid got into it, what would you tell a poison control center to look for if no one knows what's in it?