Gurgle (trapped air?)

[Guest Allen]

Our Hot Springs Sovereign began to emit a gurgling noise (sounds like trapped air

somewhere) recently. Since this noise has started, the ozone bubbles that

flow into the tub from the bottom drain have gone from tiny in size to

large. The noise itself is annoying as this tub is steps from our bed.

It has always been quiet up to this point. I'm not certain if this has

affected the ozone's effectiveness. I just drained and refilled the

tub in hopes this would correct the problem, but it did not.

Anyone else every heard of this? Tips for silencing the "gurgle"?

Thanks

Allen

[Guest Chas]

How old is this tub? If this is a year old or less, call you dealer. This is a warranted item.

Otherwise, it may just need a new flow restrictor. Also be aware: the age of the water has a lot to do with it. If you are due for a water change, do that first.

[Guest Allen]

This tub is a year and a half old, so beyond warrantee. I just changed the water yesterday. Once filled, I restarted and the gurgling was still there.

What is a flow restrictor? I have been thinking that there is air trapped someplace and this is causing the gurgling noise. Are you suggesting that something else is going on?

Thanks

[Guest Chas]

Ah. If you just refilled, it may be nothing more than trapped air. Give it a few days to work itself out.

[Guest Allen]

It has been gurgling for a few months now. I tried replacing water yesterday in hopes it would silence the gurgle, no luck. Time does not seem to help.

[Guest East Tx Spa]

Allen, that spa has a 5 year warranty on it. Call your dealer. The circ pump may be acting up. If so, it will be replaced.

Terminator

[Guest Chas]

In that case, check the 1/4" tubing, check valve and see if something has cracked or failed. The easy way to check for a cracked / broken check valve is to simply open the motor compartment door and switch off power. If you see any of the small fittings dripping, or if water begins to flow out of the ozone generator (black box) then you simply have a bad componant which is allowing more air to flow than normal. That whole system operates under vacuum, so any cracked or failed parts - or any tubing nibbled by critters - will allow air into the system and that will make extra noise.

All of those tubing parts and fittings are put in without tools: you can pull out the bad part, take it to your dealer and get a replacement. If you leave the spa on while you are gone, it will simply draw in air at the open connection.

[Guest Martin]

Our spa make the same noise (Caldera Tahitian). We had the Hot srprings engineer out and they could not find anything wrong, and said a little bit of noise , and a slightly intermittant airflow from the ozone generator was normal. They fitted a small airstone to the inlet of the ozone generator which helped at first, but now it is back to what it was before. I extended the plastic tubing through a cable hole in the cabinet so I have a loop of about 8'' outside of the cabinet. If we are using the tub and want total silence, I use a small G clamp to compress the tube and block the air flow. This makes the tub completely quiet. Without the clamp there is the low gurgling sound that you describe. Its a bit like any noise, we are used to it now so we hardly notice it. To stop it completely you could just block off the ozone pipe where it joins the circ pump at the 'T' piece. I am not personally convinced that the ozone/airflow actually does any good !!!!

Martin

[Guest Big B]

We've seen this problem recently. It is caused from too much ozone being introduced into the circulation system. The fix it to simply add another check valve inline on the air tube. It basically serves as a flow restricter. (Good call Chas!) in our experience, this has solved the gurgle noise.

[Guest Jim Arjuna]

In our testing of the mazzie injector style of ozone on a circulation pump that has proper flow of 18 GPM or more, you have to have to more outlets, up to three more or two larger ones, to reduce the water flow in the mazzie to below 5 GPM. That in turn will produce better ozone because the air in the ozone generator is not flowing to fast. If you over draw the ozone generator, the air doesn't dwell long enough ( and if it goes too slow, the opposite is true, less efficient ozone generation).

There has to be a restriction in these other jets, to get under 5 gallons per minute in the Mazzie to get the flow correct.

That means the orifice in each jet is close to or slightly smaller than the mazzei. Stick a flow meter on the mazzei inlet to see if it is close to 5 GPM.

The first unit I tested without separate outlets, produced the same effect of lots of gurgling and it restricted the water flow of the circulation pump way too much, which is not good becaues that reduces the water flow and reduces the effective filtering.

Mazzei's are designed to produce a lot of vacuum draw. If they are over drawn they produce too much gas in the lines.

From my understanding the new circ pump in the Hot Spring was put in to increase the filtering up to the bare minimums of the UL / ANSI standard. That is about double what they were doing before. They need to change the plumbing to accomodate the new water flow.

[Guest Allen]

Thanks to all! This is certainly a great forum for hot tub information. I spend quite a bit of time on-line for work and fun. I use many forums to chat with and solicit help from members regarding many topics. This is one of the best I've joined.

Allen

[Guest Chas]

The waterflow through the system will slow down as the filter gets dirty. Be sure you have a nice clean filter on the gray standpipe. Clean it, or at the very least swap one of the other ones on for now. If the water slows down, the system can get noisy. Easy way to check: simply take the retainer off the top of the filter with the gray tube. That's the one you put your AG+ Silver Ion mineral purifier into. With that off, wait a minute and see if the bubbles return to normal. If so, you have nothing worse than a dirty filter.

If that doesn't change anything, have your dealer call the factory, ask for tech support, and have them ask about this in particular. They will send him an adjustable valve with which he can adjust the airflow through the ozone system and it may silence the thing, or at least quiet it down a lot.

Keep in mind that this system is designed to mix air and water, and it will always make some noise. How much noise it makes can now be 'tweaked.'

Before you get the tech out there, do the filter thing. Also, be sure they have called the factory to get info and/or the valve, and be sure you have looked over the air lines to be sure something didn't simply come unplugged or get nibbled by an uninvited guest.

[Guest Chas]

This statement, "From my understanding the new circ pump in the Hot Spring was put in to increase the filtering up to the bare minimums of the UL / ANSI standard. That is about double what they were doing before. They need to change the plumbing to accomodate the new water flow."

Is incorrect. Well, OK, the statement is correct I guess - but the 'understanding' is wrong. Anytime you need info on HotSpring, just let me know. I'll be glad to help. Here is the correct info: A pump of the exact same design, with a slightly larger impellor was put into service because it was proven to last longer. The flow increase is a side-effect, and is not that much anyway.

No plumbing change is needed, and HotSpring spas have exceeded the ANSI suggestions since they helped to create them decades ago. I have seen several spas gurgle with the old pump, and several with the new. I have also seen hundreds NOT gurgle with both the old and new pump. One final note: the new pump is a direct replacement for the old one.

[Guest Jim Arjuna]

Under Article V of the ANSI/NSPI American National Standard for Portable spas also states:

Quoted:

5.0 CIRCULATION SYSTEMS

5.1.1 The system shall be designed to turn over the entire spa water capacity at a minimum of once every hour.

Unquote.

Under Article VIII of the ANSI/NSPI American National Standard for Portable spas also states:

Quoted:

8.0 RETURN INLETS AND SUCTION OUTLETS

8.2.2 A minimum of two (2) suction outlets shall be provided for each pump and the suction outlet system, separated by a minimum of three feet (3) [91.44 cm] or located on two (2) planes; i.e., one (1) on the bottom and one (1) on the vertical wall, or two (2) separate vertical walls. These suction outlets shall be plumbed such that the water is drawn through them simultaneously through a common line to the pump.

Unquote.

[Guest Chas]

HotSpring spas can 'turn over' the water in ten minutes. They move every drop of water through a filter before sending it through the pump and back to the tub, as opposed to only filtering a portion of the water as most tubs do. Also, there is a ten-minute timer built in. You just get out of the spa, press the "Clean" button and it will do the job and shut off.

The small circ pump is not the main filtration pump, so is not designed to meet this ANSI suggestion. The fact that is has a filter on it and that it runs all the time, just makes it that much easier to keep your spa nice and clean. It's a bonus.

The fact that there are NO suction fittings in the bather area is safer than having any. HotSpring has two or even three filters per jet pump, safely hidden away in a filter compartment. That has obviously met the UL requirements for years. I'm sorry you don't like it, but repeatedly mentioning that you don't think it is "right" doesn't make it so. In fact, so many boards have banned you precisely because you keep bringing up the 'problems' you have with these products, which are the undisputed best-selling brand. I would ask, "why do you keep doing it?" but the answer is obvious.

I have seen you post that very same ANSI quote over and over, and I have offered the same answer each time. People have then posted that they understand what I have said, and why the HotSpring design exceeds the ASNI suggestions, yet time will pass and you will do the whole thing over again.

Shoppers: it doesn't make any sense to get info about HotSpring from somebody who sells against HotSpring. And if you want to verify the safety of any consumer item, it will be listed on the ETL or UL web site, by name and model.

[Amanda]

Thanks to all! This is certainly a great forum for hot tub information. I spend quite a bit of time on-line for work and fun. I use many forums to chat with and solicit help from members regarding many topics. This is one of the best I've joined.

Allen

I am so glad to see that the modifications made to this forum have actually brought compliments to those giving information. It is really nice to see people getting help like this! I definately learned something from this topic!

[Coloradan]

A solution for your gurgling 

Hi this is my first time in a forum. Signing up was just about as annoying as the gurgling in my hot tub.. that noise has frustrated me to a boiling point for a few months now. I tried everything I could think of, cleaned the lines with vinniger, cleaned the injector. got a new injector.  Added a back flow. cleaned my tub vacuumed out the jets from inside the tub. Inspected all connections, the line for kinks, adjusted the little dial setting on the back of the ozonator. Nothing seemed to work except for plugging the ozone hose at the end just before the ozonator. That stopped the bubbles all together which tells me my connections are good so I put a little inline plastic valve in. ( the valve I used was actually for a sprinkler system shrub sprayer I had a few laying around because I tend to weed eat the heads off quite frequently.)  I was tempted just to shut the ozone completely off if this didn't work. I turned the dial setting all the way up on the back of the ozonator so I was getting the maximum amount of ozone and slowly turned the valve on and off until I found a happy medium. I let it sit for a while now I have the perfect champagne bubbles I used to have when my tub was new and I'm not boiling mad while in the tub. Back to enjoying quiet nights in the hot tub. 

Hope this works for you

[Jersey Hot Tub Repair]

Coloradan - what is this sprinkler valve you're talking about?  Do you have a photo or link?  I don't know anything about sprinkler shrub sprayers, so I'm not sure what to look for.

 

[Coloradan]

6 hours ago, ScubaDave said:

Coloradan - what is this sprinkler valve you're talking about?  Do you have a photo or link?  I don't know anything about sprinkler shrub sprayers, so I'm not sure what to look for.

 

http://store.rainbird.com/1-4-inch-barb-valve-for-drip-irrigation-pack-of-2.html

this should take you to see what I used. There are probably better products out there but this is what I had laying around. With a few modifications to reduce the hose down to the valve size. Still working great though 

[Jersey Hot Tub Repair]

Smart idea.  I'll have to get one of those to throw in the van.  Haven't had any complaints yet about gurgling, but for $2 it pays to be prepared.