Salt Vs. Chlorine?

[tangelo53]

Hi all- We have decided to take the plunge and get a pool installed. We are looking at a 40x16ft cement pool and the sales guy recommeded that I research salt generators as opposed to chlorine. Does anyone here use salt? What are your thoughts? It is only $900 more to get this and it sounds like it is a much better system. I have chlorine in my hot tub and really have some issues with dry itchy skin from the chlorine, so the thought of not having to use chlorine is great...but I wanted to check with those that are using salt to see if there were any issues I should know about before making this decision. Thanks!

[waterbear]

a salt pool is a chlorine pool. The generator makes chlorine from the salt in the water. It makes pool maitenance much eaiser and you will probably never need to shock. It will make pH adjustment a bit more frequent however.

I have one on my pool and would never go back to manual chlorination. It's worth every penny, IMHO.

Because of the salt content in the water the water is closer to the isoelectric point of the human body so it becomes less irritating. This is also one of the advantages of a SWG.

[Sterling30D]

Hi all- We have decided to take the plunge and get a pool installed. We are looking at a 40x16ft cement pool and the sales guy recommeded that I research salt generators as opposed to chlorine. Does anyone here use salt? What are your thoughts? It is only $900 more to get this and it sounds like it is a much better system. I have chlorine in my hot tub and really have some issues with dry itchy skin from the chlorine, so the thought of not having to use chlorine is great...but I wanted to check with those that are using salt to see if there were any issues I should know about before making this decision. Thanks!

You are under a misconception. A salt water pool uses a chlorine generator to make chlorine. The salt you add to the pool water produces sodium chloride. The salt water cell adds a electric charge to water passing through it and seperates the sodium and chloride which produces chlorine gas. It then infuses the chlorine gas into the water and returns it to the pool. Chlorine is what is used to sanatize pool water. Salt does not sanitize water. The benefits you get are that Chlorine is produced by the generator so you don't need to add chlorine manually or purchase it. You also use the same salt that is used to soften water so the pool water feels softer and silky. You would still be using chlorine. I do notice that with the salt water my skin doesn't feel as dried out and itchy as with a normal fresh water pool but that may all be in my mind. Salt Water Generators make pool care quite a bit easier and I would highly recommend them. Stay away from products like "Ozonators" which claim to use Ozone to sanitize pool water. Chlorine is the only thing you should be using to sanitize your pool.

[cholthaus1699]

Hello, i am a pool technition. Salt generators are great till something goes wrong. Either way you will be using chlorine. Their are products you can use to keep your chlorine low, at .5ppm to 1.ppm. You will still superchlorinate or shock weekly for bacteria. One of these products you would use weekly, for crystal clear ALGAE free water. Others use when needed. These products are all natural enzimes, wont harm you or your clothes. I have been using them for years and they work!!!

Chris Holthaus

Chris' Pools.

[waterbear]

Hello, i am a pool technition. Salt generators are great till something goes wrong. Either way you will be using chlorine. Their are products you can use to keep your chlorine low, at .5ppm to 1.ppm. You will still superchlorinate or shock weekly for bacteria. One of these products you would use weekly, for crystal clear ALGAE free water. Others use when needed. These products are all natural enzimes, wont harm you or your clothes. I have been using them for years and they work!!!

Chris Holthaus

Chris' Pools.

The only products that advertise a .5 ppm FC level are copper, copper/siver or silver/zinc based. They are often pushed as 'mineral' or 'ionoizer' systems They can keep the water free of algae but they are NOT primary sanitizers and really should be used with FC levels of 2 ppm because metals have very slow kill times for pathogens. They are effective algaecides but don't guarentee that your water will be pathogen free at the low chlorine levels advertised for them.

Enzymes are NOT sanitizers. They can reduce chlorine demand by loweing the organics in the water(how often you need to add it to maintain a given FC level) but cannot reduce the residual of clorine you need to keep the water sanitized. The main advantage to enzymes is that they keep the water line tile from getting a scum line but are really not a necessary addition to pool maintenance.

Most salt pools never show any apprecialbe combined chlorine and therefore never need to be shocked. As far as something going wrong, If you mean equipement failure, that can happen with any piece of pool equipment. SWGs are pretty dependable, as far as that goes, as long as proper maintenance on them is followed, as with any piece of pool equipment.

[gregs]

So how is it that a pool with a SWG doesnt require shocking every week? Does it produce a different type of chlorine? I am going to be installing a fiberglass pool in the next couple of months and wouldnt mind spending the extra money up front on a SWG if it will save me time and money on chemicals over the years. I am in North Florida if that makes a difference. Also I had posted before about connecting my geothermal heat pump into the pool loop and wondered if the salt water would have any adverse affects on the copper plumbing. I know to keep th e PH correct but wondered if the salt in the water would be a problem. I assume that you test the water some how to know when to add more salt.

[waterbear]

I live in St. Augustine and have a fiberglass pool with a SWG. I also work in a pool supply so I know what people spend on pool chemicals for different types of systems and pool surfaces. A fiberglass pool with a SWG is probably going to be the most maintenance free pool you can get. The biggest problem will be the constant pH rise from the SWG but that can be minimized by careful adjusting of water balance and adding borates to the water in a 50 ppm concentration.

SWGs produce chlorine gas which dissolves in the water and forms hypochlorous acid, the same thing as the liquid chlorine used in pools (and laundry bleach!)

The reason that salt pools rarely need to be shocked is because they are having chlorine delivered to them in the proper amount without additional stabilizer added on a regular basis during the time the pump is running. This keeps free chlorine levels very constant. Also, the water inside the cell is always at a 'supershock' level of chlorine so as the water passes through the cell it is being 'shocked'.

Actually, a properly maintained manually chlorinated pool that is kept at a constant chlorine level with unstabilized chlorine (by testing and dosing daily) does not need to be shocked that often either. I know of people that chlorinate manually that rarely have to shock their pools. The purpose of shocking is to break down chloramines by raising the free chlorine level high enough to reach 'breakpoint' (that is to break the chlorine/ammonia bond).

[gregs]

So what products "borates" do you use to adjust the ph level? And how often do you check and adjust, daily or weekly? If I do hook in my geothermal heat pump the ph level would be very important to maintain. Do you still add the chemicals that helps with the burn off of free chlorine?

And for a Florida question. I am over in Gainesville, how does all the rain affect your pool? Are you constantly testing and adding chemicals to compensate for all the rainwater? Thanks, Greg

[waterbear]

There are many borate products on the market, Proteam's Supreme, Bioguard's Optimizer, Poolife Endure, Omni Maximizer to name a few. You can aslo use 20 mule team borax but since this is sodium tetraborate decahydrate instead of sodium tetraborate pentahydrate the dosing is different. The decahydrate form has 10 water molecules while the pentahydrate form (which all of the above products are) has 5 molecules so you would need more of the 20 mule team to acheive the same borate level in the water. Even though you need more the cost is apprx. half! Borates are dosed to a 50 ppm level and introduce a secondary buffer system that helps stabilize pH and reduce acid consumption with a SWG. It also reduces chlorine demand and allows you to run the output of the generator at a lower level to achieve the same free chlorine level. This also helps reduce the pH rise inherent in SWGs and extends the life of the cell. When the borates are initially added they cause the pH to rise so muriatic acid is also added at the same time to neutralize the pH rise and create the boric acid/borate buffer system in the water. You still need 60-80 ppm cyanuric acid in the water to protect the chlorine from UV loss.

There are also propriatary salt mixes that contain the borates and CYA such as Proteam Ocean Breeze Salt Support, Bioguard Mineral Springs, and Natural Chemistry Salt Water Magic but they are a lot more expensive than adding the salt , borax and stabilizer separetely and they really do not allow you to adjust the levels individually, which is what should be done, IMHO.

Rain will affect the chemical levels in any pool and not for the reason that most people think. Pools have a hydrostatic pressure relief valve in the main drain that will allow water into the pool from the ground if the water table rises so the pool does not pop out of the ground. All pools with main drains have them. The additional water will dilute the chemicals in the pool and they will need to be adjusted. During rainy season you do need to pay attention to chemical levels! However, a SWG does make this a bit easier since there is a range of levels at which they operate so as long as they are within the proper range you don't have to worry that much.

As far as normal maintenance, with a salt pool you need to check pH just like any other pool, at first every day until you get to know your pool. Chlorine every few days until you get to know the pool. Total alkalinity weekly at first then monthy is probably enough. Salt, stabilizer, calcium, and borates are ususally fine if checked montlhy. If you are balancing chemicals or having any water problems then you should test more often. This is just normal pool maintenance. A good test kit is a MUST. I would recommend a Taylor K-2006 (not the K-2005) for all the main tests, Aquachek salt test strips for salt, LaMotte borate test strips or a Proteam Supreme titration test kit for the borates (The Proteam and AquaChek borate strips are hard to read), and possibly a Taylor K-1000 2 way kit for daily checks on chlorine and pH. If you have a problem with metals in your water you will also want a test kit to test for the offending metal, usually iron in FL but sometimes copper. I would recommend doing your own testing instead of relying on a pool store. Pool store testing is variable and it is often used to try and sell you unnecessary chemicals. I know, I work in one!

[gregs]

Thanks for all the information, it has been a big help. I have a couple of other questions. If you use water softner salt would you use the plain salt or the stuff that has the iron removal additive in it? I would assume the plain stuff but thought there may be some added benefit for the other. And second, would it be a benefit to fill the pool with conditioned water? I have a water softner that removes the hardness and small amount of iron from my well water. Thanks again

[waterbear]

You want to use plain salt that is at least 99.5% pure with no additives for rust or for cleaning the softener resin. If you have iron in your water you will be better off filling with softened water since it will remove the iron and the biggest drawback to fiberglass pools is their propensity to stain. You will need to bring the calcium hardness back up by adding calcium chloride to the water but that is an easy adjustment to do. That's what I do in my own pool!

[gregs]

Only a couple more questions. About using the softned water to fill the pool. My well water sample showed an iron level of .1 ppm and a hardness of 16 grains. Is that enough iron to worry about? What about the hardness level? How much do you maintain in a pool? I am just trying to decide if there is any benefit to filling it with softned water and then having to boost the hardness back up.

And for the second queston, I want to use the SWG but am also considering hooking in my geothermal heat pump into the loop. Before I considered the salt water pool I got good info about the water and ph so that it wouldnt attack the copper plumbing. Now I am questioning the salt water and how corrosive it will be on copper. I know that a lot of the pool heaters have gone to titanium heat exchangers and wonder if that is a result of salt water pools becoming more popular.

[chem geek]

16 grains is 274 ppm Total Hardness (you multiply by 17.1 to convert from grains to ppm CaCO3 equivalent). The Calcium Hardness is probably around 200 ppm as the bulk of the hardness is typically calcium with the rest being magnesium, but this depends on the water source. waterbear can address your other questions.