Uh Oh! Let Bromine Get Too Low!

[Whoneedsavacation]

So... the bromine level was way too high after the installer tossed five tablets in the filter well and suggested that might last us as long as two weeks. Got a floater, but didn't put it in, waiting for the level to go down. We waited two days before testing again and on the second evening the water was cloudy. Upon testing with a strip, the bromine level was now untestablely low. We added a floater plus a tablet in the filter well. This morning the water tests ideal to high on bromine level but the water is still icky looking. I shocked it with the one packet of shock that came with the startup kit, waited a bit and then put some clarifier in. Is there any hope this will clear it up? Is the water safe? If we drain it and start over, should we do anything special to clean the tub before a refill?

Our startup kit was Leisure Time bromine tablets. It came with one packet of "Renew" shock treatment plus a boatload of other products. We used a bit of the "Enzyme" the day before the bromine bottmed out and also some anti-foam (not in the same session) as we were getting a lot of sudsing with the jets on high. Could this have caused the ugliness somehow?

[SugarBear]

The cloudy water could be caused by heavy usage the first couple of days and the fact that you let the bromine fall too low, but you did not mention your Alk or PH levels. This could be a cause also. If it was the bromine, then a good shock should take care of it in a couple of days. What are you shocking with? Suds and stuff are probably the cause of bathing suits (that's if you use them), makeup, hair products, etc. Try washing your bathing suits several times, without any soap, and keep them free of your regular wash and only rinse them out. You would be supprised to see how much soap is left in clothes after coming out of the wash. I have got into the habit of taking a shower and asking my guests to do the same before entering the tub. It has saved many water changes. How are you testing your water. Get a good test kit, such as Taylor. Good luck!

[Whoneedsavacation]

Ph and total alkalinity are right at the optimal level, calcium is slightly low. I'm just rinsing my suit at this point, not putting it in the wash. We have been using it twice a day for these first few days! After the shock this morning, it is reportedly looking much better.

Our startup kit came with 4-way test strips from Leisure Time. The strips certainly seem convenient, do we need a liquid/reagent kit?

I used Leisure Time Renew non-chlorine shock, which came with the startup kit. One treatment was all there was, so I plan to stop by a pool and supply store on the way home for work to get some more. I've read here that household chlorine bleach can also be used, but I'm not sure how long we'd have to wait after using it.

The shower before thing is just not going to happen. I'd do it, but my S.O. has back issues and likes to get in right after his P.T. so I think we need to be sufficiently aggressive about the sanitization.

I had no idea a spa could go from too much bromine to too little in less than 48 hours! We will test daily for a while until we think we have some kind of steady-state achieved.

Is there a quick and dirty guide (so to speak) as to when it is or is not safe to get in the water? Will 10 ppm bromine cause a problem? What if it dips below 1 ppm but the water looks OK? What about cloudiness, is it always a no-no to get in? Or is it OK if the sanitizer is present?

[waterbear]

Ph and total alkalinity are right at the optimal level, calcium is slightly low. I'm just rinsing my suit at this point, not putting it in the wash. We have been using it twice a day for these first few days! After the shock this morning, it is reportedly looking much better.

Our startup kit came with 4-way test strips from Leisure Time. The strips certainly seem convenient, do we need a liquid/reagent kit?

I would recommend a Taylor K-2106 for bromine. It will make your water testing much easier! Strips are pretty usless for anything other than a quick check of whether there is any sanitizer or not. They shoud NOT be used for water balancing! They just don't have the precision (NOT the same thing as accuracy. Strips are accurate, they are just not precise.)

I used Leisure Time Renew non-chlorine shock, which came with the startup kit. One treatment was all there was, so I plan to stop by a pool and supply store on the way home for work to get some more. I've read here that household chlorine bleach can also be used, but I'm not sure how long we'd have to wait after using it.

Once your bromine levels drop below 10 ppm you can use the spa no matter whether you shock with chlorine or MPS (non chlorine shock). Both will oxidize the bromide in the water into hypobromous acid, your active bromine sanitizer and both will cause the level of sanitizer to rise.

The shower before thing is just not going to happen. I'd do it, but my S.O. has back issues and likes to get in right after his P.T. so I think we need to be sufficiently aggressive about the sanitization.

I had no idea a spa could go from too much bromine to too little in less than 48 hours! We will test daily for a while until we think we have some kind of steady-state achieved.

If the spa is exposed to sunlight all your bromine sanitizer can disappear in a matter of about an hour since bromine cannot be stabilzied against UV light like chlorine can. Also, the bromine gets 'used up' when it santizes and converts back into bromide. This is why you need to shock. The bromine tabs in your floater put bromide into the water and also contain chlorine to activate (oxidize) the bromide into bromine santizer but they are only useful for maintaining the level between shocks. They cannot be used as a stand alone 'one step' system.

Is there a quick and dirty guide (so to speak) as to when it is or is not safe to get in the water? Will 10 ppm bromine cause a problem? What if it dips below 1 ppm but the water looks OK? What about cloudiness, is it always a no-no to get in? Or is it OK if the sanitizer is present?

Below 10 ppm is safe to go in. Below 4 ppm and there is not enough residual sanitizer in the spa to keep the water pathogen free. 6 ppm is a good level to shoot for.

Hope this helps.

[Whoneedsavacation]

Thanks. That does help.

How precise does a measuring tool need to be for balancing? Why isn't the coarse granularity of a strip "good enough" for a residential spa, recent catastrophe aside...

Is the water safe at 5-9 ppm bromine regardless of how it looks? When do you decide it is time for a drain and refill aside from doing so every 2-4 months on a regular basis?

[waterbear]

Thanks. That does help.

How precise does a measuring tool need to be for balancing? Why isn't the coarse granularity of a strip "good enough" for a residential spa, recent catastrophe aside...

Spas have a very small quantity of water in them and small mistakes in dosing or meaureing levels can cause water balance to go off by a large margin. If you are adjusting TA or CH this could cause you to overdose and cloud the water, for example. The smaller the volume of water you are testing the more precise your measurements really need to be. Even in a 10000 gallon pool the strips really don't have enough accuracy to get good results for water balancing. Think about how much you paid for your spa and then ask yourself if an additonal $60 is really too much money to spend on a test kit that will help you get your water balance 'perfect' and help you save on chemical costs.

Also, strips only test total hardness, which is a useless test for water balance, you are interested in calcium hardness, which can only be done with a drop test.

Is the water safe at 5-9 ppm bromine regardless of how it looks?

Depends, for example if the water is cloudy because the TA and CH is so high that you have precipitated out calcium then it's ok to go in but if the water is cloudy because you are trying to kill algae and you need to keep it at shock level for a few days to do so then you need to keep it at shock level and wait for the water to clear.

When do you decide it is time for a drain and refill aside from doing so every 2-4 months on a regular basis?

If the spa has a lot of use or a heavy bather load you will want to drain more frequently (maybe every 2 months) than one that gets little use (every 4 months). Under average use about every 3-4 months is usually fine. Water that needs to be drained will look 'dull' and will tend to foam when the water balance is correct even when the time to drain has not been reached.

Hope this helps.

[Whoneedsavacation]

OK, I'll ask the next ignorant question... If the pH and TA are in range (to the precision of a test strip) and the hardness is one box below the optimum, but the bromine drops to a very low level, what is one most likely growing to cause the cloudiness? Algae? Bacteria? What species?

This is now an academic question as the water cleared up nicely (this is actually kind of fun, like a big backyard experiment with benefits, who knew the thing would react so quickly) after shocking it.

And to beat the dead horse (apologies to my horse) I could buy the argument that to stay in true balance with a small body of water, you need to be very precise, wouldn't I also need to be sure the chemicals are very pure and dispense them by weight using a very accurate scale? Are professional maintenance folks really that careful? I'm thinking of the installer cavalierly tossing 4 tablets in the filter well and saying "that should last you two weeks". He forgot the sodium bromide to boot! I put it in after reading the instructions he gave me, plus the ones in the chemical startup kit.

[waterbear]

OK, I'll ask the next ignorant question... If the pH and TA are in range (to the precision of a test strip) and the hardness is one box below the optimum, but the bromine drops to a very low level, what is one most likely growing to cause the cloudiness? Algae? Bacteria? What species?

most likely some 'nasties' growing in the water if the shocking cleared it up quickly.

This is now an academic question as the water cleared up nicely (this is actually kind of fun, like a big backyard experiment with benefits, who knew the thing would react so quickly) after shocking it.

And to beat the dead horse (apologies to my horse) I could buy the argument that to stay in true balance with a small body of water, you need to be very precise, wouldn't I also need to be sure the chemicals are very pure and dispense them by weight using a very accurate scale?

If you are using weight measures for things like calcium and baking soda,yes. A kitchen scale has enough accuray. You need more accuracy than test srips can provide but you don't need a chemistry lab!

Are professional maintenance folks really that careful?

IMHO, most are very sloppy and don't dose right (I know I will get a lot of flack for that but in my experience it's been true! I have several service people as customers and they really are rather clueless about water chemistry.

I'm thinking of the installer cavalierly tossing 4 tablets in the filter well and saying "that should last you two weeks". He forgot the sodium bromide to boot! I put it in after reading the instructions he gave me, plus the ones in the chemical startup kit.

I rest my case!