Consumer Data

[susanspabuyer]

I am having difficulty getting any consumer data on spas. Al spas in general, but specifically, La Spas, Arctic, and Hot Springs

[Chas]

'susanspabuyer' said, "I am having difficulty getting any consumer data on spas. Al spas in general, but specifically, La Spas, Arctic, and Hot Springs"

What specific data are you seeking, Susan?

HotSpring.com is the web site for Hot Spring Portable Spas, and has a place to request a brochure. The web site also has all the dimensions, specifications and other data.

There are a few buyers guides on line, but none are non-profit, so be aware of that.

HotSpring is the largest tub company by far, and the leading selling tub. That doesn't make it the best for you, but it does give you some confidance.

[Trigger]

Hi Sue,

Finding accurate non biased data on hot tubs is difficult.

Hot springs is the #1 company, and Artic also is considered a leader in the industy. Other quality names and brands would be Jaquizzi, Caldera, Sundace, Dimension 1.

What are your concerns? What data are you looking for?

1) Stay away from Ebay and the internet for buying tubs. Stick with a local dealer carrying a qualiy product that has a good track record.

2) Don't be swayed by all the flash (Waterfalls, TVs, Radios, fancy lights). These are exspensive options. Focus on the quality of the tub, the warrenty, and the dealer and WET TESTING the tub.

Good luck

[susanspabuyer]

Does anyone know about LA Spas? I have read some of the comments here regarding Artic and Hot Springs. I feel like I could probably buy either of those and probably be happy with my purchase.

The only consumer data that I can find has been provided by Arctic. Of course I would not expect that to be non-biased. It was some costs of operating data that Arctic commissioned a company to study. Arctic named the spa models to be tested. All Arctic would have to do is not name any spa models that would challenge their ability to come out on top.

[susanspabuyer]

I also had a salesperson tell me that the warranties on some of the spas are tricky. For example, if a heater was defective, it could be replaced once and if the same component failed again, it was buyer responsibility. That your water could be tested and your warranty voided because you "abused" your spa by not maintaining the water within certain guidelines. I have read a couple of the warranties and there are no guidelines given there. Which companies have the tricky warranties, so that I can be certain that I gather enough data on them to be sure I can comply.

[Chas]

As to warranty - get it in writing. Many companies hand out a brief summary of their warranty, or nothing at all. Get the whole thing - you can see it online, even download it at several places.

HotSpring - among others - will give you the full text of the warranty. They put it right in the brochure. In our case the heater is covered by a five-year "no fault" warranty. That means three things;

• They have made the heater good enough to back it this way,
• They will replace it free if it fails for five years,
• They can't blame you or anyone else if it fails: they just send a tech out to replace it.

As a HotSpring dealer since 1986, I have enjoyed the reputation that HS has earned for taking good care of the customer. They sell a huge number of tubs, so it is inevitable that there will be problems. Most are minor, but some are biggies. It is impossible for that not to happen, and when it happens to your tub it can become a big deal to you. That is where it is nice to have a company like HotSpring behind me - the dealer - so I can take care of you - the customer.

In my area, we have a Sundance dealer. He's about the only one left besides us. They have a reputation for crummy service after the sale. I love it. But that is the local dealer, not Sundance. From what I have seen across the country, Sundance generally backs their product well. That's not a surprise, they are a major name.

[susanspabuyer]

How important or not important is having a separate circulation pump? I can find salespeople that say both having and not having is essential. Also, 100% no bypass filtration yields similar results. I can find salespeople that tell me w/o bypass possiblity, the pump could be run dry and take damage. I can find salespeople that say you need 100% no by pass to keep from running dirty water through equipment.

[Chas]

'susanspabuyer' said, "How important or not important is having a separate circulation pump? I can find salespeople that say both having and not having is essential. Also, 100% no bypass filtration yields similar results. I can find salespeople that tell me w/o bypass possiblity, the pump could be run dry and take damage. I can find salespeople that say you need 100% no by pass to keep from running dirty water through equipment."

Sounds like you have experienced some negative selling. How does that make you feel? I never like it very much. Sorry about that.

Here's what I have found in my own experience: My HotSpring has the no-bypass arrangement. It is easier to keep the water clean and clear. Also - it will do in ten minutes what other tubs can take one to three hours to do. I have Caldera and Tiger River on my showroom floor, plus I have owned many other brands over the past two decades.

Some folks make this a buying decision, but obviously if the other tubs could NOT be kept clean and clear with the systems they have they would no longer be selling them, so it's up to you.

As to the small circ pump - here are some nice things it does for you at least on HotSpring tubs:

• Heats the spa silently.
• Does additional filtration, 'round the clock.
• Keeps the water in motion in all parts of the tub.
• Gently moves water through the plumbing to avoid that cold blast and water problems.
• Keeps the Ozone going into the water constantly.
• Saves you money - by keeping the temp more stable, and adding a small amount of heat by itself.
• Removes the job of daily filtration from the jet pumps - extends their lives a bunch.
• On some models it also runs the little water fall. Not a big deal, but it mutes background noise and it's nice that it doesn't add pump noise while it's doing so.
• Keeps water moving through the heater and temperature sensors all the time, so there is less cycling on and off of the heater.

Can you enjoy a spa without one? Sure. Do folks who sell against them think they are a good idea? Nope. Do my customers - many who have lived with this type of system for over twenty years - think it's a good idea? Yes.

[Tom]

The only consumer data that I can find has been provided by Arctic. Of course I would not expect that to be non-biased. It was some costs of operating data that Arctic commissioned a company to study.

Nonetheless, it was conducted at arms length by an independent government test lab. But you can bet we wouldn't have published it if it had come out differently.

Arctic named the spa models to be tested. All Arctic would have to do is not name any spa models that would challenge their ability to come out on top.

You'd think so, wouldn't you? Yet oddly enough, AFAIK no other company has produced a similar study. We wonder how many studies have been buried because the results "didn't come out right".

I believe the April edition of Consumer Digest contained comparative information on hot tubs that might be of some benefit.

Happy spa shopping

Tom

[JohnInSJ]

http://www.consumersearch.com/www/house_an...as/reviews.html

http://www.hotspring.com/About_Hot_Spring_...ses_090198.html

[Tom]

http://www.consumersearch.com/www/house_an...as/reviews.html

http://www.hotspring.com/About_Hot_Spring_...ses_090198.html

]

Thanks, John. I only took a quick look, but I don't think either of those compares energy use between brands, and the HS one is for a 110V spa but does point out that cost goes up as average ambient temperature goes down.

Susan, here are a couple more that might be of interest:

This chart looks incomplete, and has Volts and Gals transposed!. (Take it, as we say, with a grain of salt.)

Insulation Comparison Testing

The second study, while suggestive, does not give a great deal of information. Who did the study? How thick was the insulation? And I wish they'd done one more test, with 3" of PU perimeter insulation!