Hot Spring Flash vs Flair & 2019 FreshWater Salt System option

[winelover]

Hello!  As we continue our research on our 1st hot tub, we have narrowed it down to the Hot Spring Flash or Flair in the Limelight series. We can't wet test the Flair (with lounger) but we did wet test the Flash (without). We like a different lounger we tried with Caldera and feel like we might miss it if we go with the Flash. One of us sinks and the other floats but was ok anchoring the heel to the little ledge past the calf jets to stay positioned. We are a bit sad to give up a little elbow room and seating but it will primarily be for 2 maybe 4 people, so we would just give up the vision of 6 people in the tub if we went with the Flair. Any thoughts between these two and if it would be a mistake to buy Flair without wet test? It's not available anywhere within a few hundred miles of us. So, we're tempted to go with the Flash since we really liked it and can't try the Flair, but there may be a part of us always wondering if we should have gotten/tried the Flair. Thoughts?

About salt system...

The dealer really never talked to us about the standard ozone system and just discussed the new 2019 FreshWater Salt System option (not ACE). We also haven't asked yet, but it just wasn't discussed. Since there's not a history with this system (said it's been beta tested for 3 years and out since February), can anyone "in the know" chime in with their thoughts on buying the hot tub with this new salt system? Should we learn more about the ozone system -- I'm not even sure how that works since it was never discussed. 

About price...

The retail I'm being quoted for both is $10,300. They said there is a sale coming soon for $500 off to make it $9,800. Any thoughts on how often Hot Spring offers a deal throughout the year and if this is a good price? Includes delivery, 1 set of salt stuff (for 4 months), steps, cover w/ lift. Anything else we're missing or should ask for?

Thank you!

 

[castletonia]

I'm a Hot Spring and Caldera dealer, just an FYI.

The Flair has in my opinion a deep lounge.  I'm 5'8" and my wife is 5'5".  My wife is borderline too short to fit in the lounge.  If you cannot even sit in the Flair to determine if you will fit in the lounge I would go with the Flash.  Which Caldera model did you try?

As for the salt system, about 95% of what I am selling is with salt.  Ozone is not standard anymore, its an option and the cost is the same as salt.  Overall, my experience with salt has been positive.  I have had a few that haven't performed as well as advertised either due to water chemistry issues, extremely high usage and inability to follow direction, but most of my customers are satisfied.  The system had been in beta testing since the 2nd half of 2015 and has been available since November 2018.

The price you are being quoted is a few hundred less than I normally sell for.  The $500 rebate comes around once a year.  This year the sale is from 9/13-9/23.

[winelover]

Thank you @castletonia. We are both 6' tall. My legs float easily and my husband's legs sink. I sat in the Flair dry and my feet go about 3-4" past the little ledge before the foot jets. I'll have to keep my knees bent just a little to shove my heels into that ledge to stay down... at least, that worked in my wet test in the Caldera Tahitian. The Tahitian seats felt smaller and less comfortable than the Flash, and we didn't like the large headrest that wasn't in a good place to fit our frames.  Are the four Flair seats the same (size and feel) as the Flash? I really liked how the Flash seats fit us, so I'm hoping at least the corner seats of the Flair are the same.

As for the lounger, I'm hoping I'll be able to anchor myself with one heel and stretch out the other leg and switch so I can get my feet a little closer to the foot jets. Do you think that will work for a floater like me?  I'm not sure if I'll feel the foot jets while my heels are anchored. Otherwise, I'll just enjoy the foot jets when I'm in a corner seat. I really liked how the Flash had a foot jet in each direction of the chairs... so much so I was interested in the Pulse since it had more of them.

Can you think of any other down-sides to us getting the Flair? We anticipate my husband to use it everyday... maybe twice a day during 4 months of the year when his job gets really physical. I'll use it 4-5 times a week. And then we anticipate having friends over maybe twice a month... usually just one couple (one 6'3" the other 5'6"). I'm hoping the four of us fit fine but we're not buying it for anyone but ourselves... it's mainly for my husband and I to enjoy and the occasional other people. My husband had a really physically hard day yesterday and said he really kept dreaming about being able to stretch out in the lounger, so I think that's the direction we're going to go... I'm just looking for any reason NOT to go with the Flair. I like to cover my bases for such a big purchase.

Thanks for the update about the salt system and the pricing. Interesting about the rebate... our sales guy mentioned something starting on Sunday. Could it be a store-specific sale? Does Hot Spring allow stores to do that? Without the discount, we're being told $10,300. Now I have $9,800 in my head so I'm hoping it is a reality. Do you ever include other things that I didn't mention? Like more salt cartridges or anything?

He mentioned throwing in a bottle of the cover protector he recommends we use ($13) since it will get a lot of sun... I'm not sure what the cover warranty is or what that covers. Is there another sun protectant that you recommend that doesn't void the warranty or should we use that one regularly?

Thank you for the help! We're quite excited to get started. 

 

[winelover]

By the way, we tried the Grandee because we wanted to try the Highlife Moto-Massage jets and were surprised we didn't really like how they feel. We are primarily buying for the hydrotherapy for my husband's physical job, and we like really strong therapuetic jets. It just surprised us that it wasn't what we expected. We did try a few jet packs from Bullfrog that we liked but didn't like the overall tub there. We're not sure if there are any other tubs or options we're missing, but so far we've liked the feel of Hot Spring tubs over everything we've tried (Marque, Bullfrog, and Caldera -- who won't let us wet test the Saychelles, only the Tahitian).

[castletonia]

I'll take a closer look at the two when I get into work tomorrow morning.  I have never seen a Tahitian so I cannot personally compare it to the Flash/Flair, but generally speaking the seating in Caldera is more sculpted or contoured whereas Hot Spring is more barrier-free.  I'm not personally a huge lounger fan, the Aria being the exception.  If it were me, I would choose the Flash over the Flair, but I would then choose the Pulse over the Flash.  

My concern for you with the Flair is that unless you guys love the lounge, it could be a wasted seat.  With not being able to try it, you never know how it will feel/fit you.  Second, the Flair will get crowded with 4 people.  If you are unable to wet test a Flair, I would personally go with either the Flash or Pulse then.

If your dealer has something starting on Sunday, then that is their promotion.  What I was mentioning is a Hot Spring promo, but that doesn't begin until September and I'm sure your dealer will end their promo prior to that one starting.  Either way, $9800 for a Flash or Flair with saltwater is very fair price.  I generally include what I consider standard stuff (step, coverlift, water care kit, cover, gfci sub-panel, local delivery) with my spas.  You can always ask for an extra salt cartridge, worst they can do is say no.  Cover warranty is 2 years.  I would suggest either Cover Shield from Hot Spring or 303 Protectant as your cover care product.

If you are really set on a lounger, I would really be suggesting a Caldera Seychelles, or maybe even a Martinique, but if the dealer will not allow wet testing, I would be super hesitant.    I cannot speak for Bullfrog, but I do also carry Marquis and while I think Marquis makes a quality product, I'm much higher on Hot Spring and Caldera.

[castletonia]

I'm going to stop short of saying the non-lounge seats in the Flair are the same as the Flash, but the height and contour is very similar.  Jet patterns are a bit different though.

[winelover]

@castletonia  Thank you again for all your information & advice.  We spent more time this weekend and discovered a few more things:

• Local Hot Springs dealer is NOT offering a deal this week like he thought he would.
• We dry sat in Flair and decided the non-lounger seats were way too crowded for our legs. So, we ruled it out.
• We confirmed we DO want a lounger but the only Hot Springs hot tubs we like are Flash & Pulse.  We don't like the Moto-Massage in all the Highlife series... too soft for us. We like firmer pressure and rotating forceful jets.  So, we refocused on Caldera.
• We got to meet the Caldera owner/operator instead of just the sales guy. We really like him so that's a big plus, and they have great reviews.
• We dry sat in Geneva. It was our original first choice, and it's back at the top of our list. Nowhere around here to wet test it, though, so we're considering buying it anyway. It's either that or not buy one. It's frustrating.
• Retail price for Geneva is $12,700 (including delivery, cover, lift, steps, 4 months salt/cartridge). Current manuf rebate of $500 until Aug 17 so makes it $12,200.
  • Thoughts on Geneva? We're both 6' tall so we're hoping it feels as good wet as it does dry. We love it dry. We did wet test Tahitian and the only seat we really liked was the lounger. But the Geneva is more spacious and deeper... which we think will be perfect.
  • Would love to save a bit more money, if possible. Thoughts on price?
  • Would like a 2nd set of stairs... what do the Avante and Eco-Tech steps each cost? My husband actually likes the look of the Eco-Tech steps better in the book but we haven't seen them in person. We want stairs on two sides of it... what are your thoughts on the Paradise-series steps in Ash to pair with a Slate/White Utopia tub?
  • Anything else we should be considering when ordering?

[castletonia]

Good price on the Geneva.  I would be over $13,000, even as a "cash" price.

As for steps, the Avante are what technically match the Utopia series.  I would be selling them at $349, which is the same price I would sell the EcoTech steps at.  I however only do the less expensive Polymer steps now.  I've had a few complaints about Avante steps being slippery and have had a few customers crack the sides when shoveling snow.  I've had no push back from my customers and have not had anyone spend $150 to upgrade from Polymer to EcoTech, though the EcoTech are really nice steps in my opinion.  I don't have any Slate cabinets in my store right now but when comparing the sample to Ash, it appears to be a bit darker, though I think it would look fine.  Keep in mind I'm comparing to Polymer and not EcoTech.

[winelover]

@castletonia Thanks again for all your thoughtful responses. You helped us a lot, and we made a decision! We're ordering the Geneva. We received a cash price of $11,895 from the owner, so I feel like we got a great deal. The dealer has a great reputation and we REALLY liked the owner once we spent time with him. Includes delivery, cover/lift, Avante steps, 4 months salt, and training. Will take about 3-4 weeks to receive.

We'd like to buy a 2nd set of steps because we want to be able to enter from two sides instead of just into the front where the lounger is.  We're going to wait and just see how it goes with what we have and shop around, but he quoted us wholesale pricing on his steps if we want to add those on. 

Thanks again!  We're excited for it to get here.