Sovereign Blinking Red Light - Tried Just About Everything

[Homer14]

I'm starting to lose hope. I have a classic blinking red light about 2 minutes after turning my tub on, sometimes after about 2 hours but usually 2 minutes. I have a 2006 Hot Springs Sovereign II. The circ pump remains on when the spa kills power to the jets and the heater which is an indicator of the high limit being a problem. Temp set at 100 but tried it at 70,80,90,100,104. The water is currently 64 and the temp outside ranges between 0-15 degrees these days.

HELP!

this is what ive done so far:

1. High/Low Thermistors resistance/temp check (pass), replaced them anyway after running out of ideas

2. Original Old Style Circ Pump cleaning (pass), replaced it anyway with the newer E5 pump after running out of ideas

3. Heater turns on when asked? (pass)

4. Snaked lower tubing to remove potential sludge from Baqua Spa (done), also done regularly anyway so it was open

5. Snaked tubing that is visible in the electronics compartment area. Clean, no calcium build up visible.

6. Filters removed (temporarily)

7. I think ive done more than this but those are the big ticket items.

[PreservedSwine]

Turn off the water feature- how's the circ pump flow through the drain? Does it also trip when the heater breaker is off?

Are there any unusual sounds coming from the heater? Do you have an ozone generator?

[Homer14]

Thanks for your help!

The waterfall thing is off (i never use it). The circ pump is strong and pushing water well, about 1/3rd better than the prior pump i have (which apparently isn't bad as it didnt fix the problem). I tried just the controls being on, without heater, as you suggested and the system is stable right now with a solid red light. No ozone generator. The heater doesnt make any weird noises, just the slow increase in what sounds like water heating up when it first starts up.

[PreservedSwine]

The heater shouldn't make a peep. Even when you first turn it on. If it's making a little noise when energized, there's some blockage, hardness, or flow issue.

Keep the water feature off, as this should force all the circ pump flow through the heater (The water for the water feature water does not flow through the heater, so when the water feature is running, that's less water flow through the heater) You might need to remove the heater, and try to remove whatever might be in there. Are you certain the flow is great? You can see the apex on top of the water surface, above the drain, from the circ pump flow? Sometimes, hardness will also accumulate behind the grille for the drain, and slow down the flow, or around the venturi "T" if equipped with ozone.

[Homer14]

The flow looks strong but maybe I dont know what strong looks like. I see water on the surface about the heater/drain area moving pretty good. Perhaps ive never seen great or expected?!?! The drain holes look to be clear mostly if not completely.

Can i take the heater apart to the point where i can actually scrub, soak, clr, or something to possible calcium blockage? I'm happy to do that and just plug my water lines. That's one thing ive not done yet and it seems like ive checked and done everything else.

If i shouldnt hear noise, then its got to be the heater (only 1.5 years old). I hear that thing sound like its bubbling or something during its warming up then it seems to get quiet then the tub shuts it off.

PS - turned the heater on after about 4 hours of circ pump only with solid red, and in 1 minute the heater shutoff.

[Homer14]

In addition to above response, shouldnt i be able to somehow test the flow digitally using the flow sensor or whatever that wire is coming out of the heater? Like quickly testing resistance or something (similar to that of the thermistors).

If you tell me i can clean the heater innards then ill probably end up doing that and SOON due to outside temps.

[PreservedSwine]

There is no digitial flow meter. You can, however, thread something into the drain (I believe it's a 1 1/4" thread), with some hose glued into it (3/4" is adequate) , and divert the water into a gallon jug. It should fill the jug in approx 20 seconds.

If you can actually see the tiny apex on the surface of the water- that's usually all we look for... There could be some hardness that has accumulated in the heater- touching the element near the temp sensors.

Based on the heater making actual noise- I am inclined to beleive the heater really is over-heating, and this is not an electronic problem, bad control head, bad IQ2020, etc. You could always unplug the new thermistor (leaving it installed in the heater), and plug in the old thermistor to the control box, warm up some water in a glass, take it's temp (start at 105F- eventually going to 1

~120F), drop the thermistor in there, and eventually discover what temp it's actually throwing the hi-limit. Be careful, if the spa heater comes on while you're testing the thermistor/high limit calibration... if the heater is indeed overheating, it will get HOT with the high limit thermistor in a glass of water and not installed in the heater!

[Homer14]

Thanks for more tips. Trying to understand the goal of this test?

Say i put it in at 90F glass of water and the heater turns on because the tub is set at 100F. Are you expecting the heater to still shut itself off or stay on because im using the glass thermistor. Either way, what does it mean if the heater stays on?

Or am i trying to validate that the iq2020 indeed kills the heat when the temp reaches, say 100F if i tell the tub to reach 100F?

right now the heater trips off in 2 min and the water was 65F last time i looked.

I'm just trying to understand the test and the outcome discoveries and then ill do it.

[PreservedSwine]

What the heater does is inconsequential for this test- it has nothing to do with the test. I'm saying while running the test- beware - the thermistor being utilized is not in the heater, so if the heater is actually overheating- it will do exactly that. In fact, I'd turn the heat all the way down, or even disconnect it from the circuitboard.

The purpose of the test is to ensure that the high limit is tripping when it should (118F-122F), using the water in the cup as a control. This way you can see if you have a flow issue (which will cause the heater to over-heat) or an electronic issue, because you'll know exactly what temp the heater is reaching when it does throw the high limit after experimenting with different temp's of water in the cup.

[Homer14]

Thanks! I'll do this and get back to you with results. I kept the old thermistors as they worked fine.

[Homer14]

Spa Guru,

I plugged in my extra high limit thermistor while in a glass of 85F water. In about 15 seconds after i "hear" the water heater turn on, the tub shuts off as it did when the thermistor was plugged directly into the heater.

I guess this shows it's not a thermistor issue? Does it mean there is build up in my heater or maybe the iq board has issues?

There is no way to test that wire coming from the heater itself (isnt it a flow sensor?)

Last question, if you say it is my heater and buildup. can the no fault be taken apart and reassembled without ruining it to clean any buildup?

Thanks!

-Homer

[Homer14]

Forgot to mention the hot tub state:

Temp was/is set at 100F

Actual temp is at 57F

The glass of water was 85F when the heater shutoff after about 15 seconds of being on.

[PreservedSwine]

Great work, detective!

It's not a flow issue, nor is it s thermistor issue.

When it trips, look at the trouble code led's on the main PCB. Is "ctrl unplugged" lit when it trips? If so, power down, uplug both plugs on the multi-color light harness. Power back up, and you should be fine. The light has failed, causing a communication error if this is the case, shutting the whole thing down.

[Homer14]

I dont see a ctrl unplugged light? The D17 lights up when it trips.

I followed the wire from the light in the tub to the iq, and it connects in 2 places.. a 2 pin connector, and the other i think was a 5 pin connector. I tried pulling both, pulling one, pulling the other, and in any configuration of them plugged in or none plugged in, it still trips.

the noise i think i hear is the circ pump functioning. the heater just makes a noise like water is flowing faster or boiling or something when it kicks on for a good 5-10 seconds.

Ideas now?

[Homer14]

in additon to my previous response, ctrl unplugged is not lit when it trips. this did light up when i unplugged the 2 pin connector only which runs toward the light in the tub. i didnt realize where it was but looking again i see it.

it does not light when it trips. all leds go out and the d17 led turns on when it trips

[PreservedSwine]

Last chance- if you have an ozone generator, try unplugging it.

If that doesn't solve the issue, the control head, or IQ2020, has failed.

[Homer14]

no ozone stuff.

sure i shouldnt take apart the heater and look inside it (if that is even possible?) as long as i can put it back together?

[PreservedSwine]

You just mentioned the high limit would trip while the high limit was sitting in a cup of 85F degree water. That shouldn't happen.

[Homer14]

Is the D17 a high limit indicator?

That mean my iq board is bad? MAn i wish i knew what was wrong so i can buy the part and be done and not buy parts and hope. Is there a way to do diagnostics on the iq board with a multimeter or something?

Or do you think its something else?

[Homer14]

well im getting hopeless. so i just pulled the heater out. i noticed the back side (outlet side) near the thermistor was hot to touch while the rest was not after each time it trips.

im staring at this thing now wondering how i can take it apart somehow and clean the inside with clr or something.

also, what is the small plumbing line going into the back of the heater? that, if anything, is the only line i didnt snake out. i doubt i even have something small enough to snake that line.

[Homer14]

so i cleaned out the heater the best i could using clr a tooth brush and a lot of shaking around water/clr. tons of flake-like calcium (rust colored) flakes came out. i put it back in and same issue but with a slight twist.

1. it stayed on longer (maybe 3 min) before tripping

2. i noticed if i turn the jets on and the heater on it might stay on for 10-20 min. and then it will shut off at random or when the jets stop it will stop. (this makes me think flow again)

Question: the little tube into the back of the no fault heater, is that a bleed line? where is it going? how can i snake that out? I want to find the other end of it and see if its clogged or something. Perhaps it is contributing to the trip?

[Homer14]

i think its a bleed valve. i opened both ends and even shot an air compress through it to clean it out. one end goes to heater, other end to jet pump (i think?) anyway, water flows good through the 1/4 inch tube on the jet pump and on the heater side. no luck though, didnt fix issue.

i just put some "clean start" purging crap into the tub, tomorrow ill drain it and refill it and see what happens.

[PreservedSwine]

Wait a sec- I thought you said it tripped with the high limit sitting in a glass of water at 85F...

In order to troubleshoot your problem, we need to be able to communicate properly, or we're wasting time.

Many parts of your description point toward a blockage- yet you also maintain the circ pump flo is great.

You seem to think the heater is over-heating, but at the same time assert the high limit tripped while sitting in a glass of 85F water.

Either we're not communicating properly, or your description/interpretation is not accurate. At any rate, I'm not comfortable with asking you to perform any more troubleshooting. Everything you need to know has already been stated. You can ensure that you either do/do not have a blockage, and you can ensure that you either do/do not have a temp sensor/IQ 2020 issue on what we have already posted.

Good luck

[Homer14]

That is correct. I did your glass request, and it tripped. The circ pump is flowing great by judging from the drain flow upward to the water crest (i could make a video and show you probably). I just took the heater out anyway because im anxious to fix this and i cleaned that out.

I appreciate your help thus far and some new ideas to try. If you're done helping. Thanks a lot for your time. Hopefully this post helps others.

Right now ive got a spa purge chemical thing going. I'll drain it today and fill it up again then see what happens.

To recap: the following have been done:

1. High/Low Thermistors resistance/temp check (pass), replaced them anyway after running out of ideas

2. Original Old Style Circ Pump cleaning (pass), replaced it anyway with the newer E5 pump after running out of ideas

3. Heater turns on when asked by iq2020? (pass)

4. Snaked lower hidden tub tubing to remove potential sludge from Baqua Spa (done), also done regularly anyway so it was open (clean now)

5. Snaked tubing that is visible in the electronics compartment area. Clean, no calcium build up visible. (clean now)

6. Filters removed (temporarily).

7. Removed heater, cleaned it out with clr and a toothbrush (clean now)

8. blew out bleed line coming from heater to jet pump (water flows fine)

9. put high limit thermistor in a glass of water (85F), tub set at 100F, high limit still tripped while tub actually at 57F.

10. tested voltages. 240 to heater, 120 to circ pump

11. tested resistances, 9.5ohm between black/white heater (good, should be 8-20?)

[Homer14]

For those reading this still... ill update my status in hopes it helps someone else..

i drained the tub (it drained extremely slow, slower than i recall as if something is clogged. so i ended up siphoning water out of the top with a tube while both drain plugs were also open and draining slow. then i refilled my tub half way, drained it again to get the spa flush stuff out that i was using i hope to clean any crud causing flow issues.

its filled now, same issue remains. i highly suspect the heater is tripping itself. i suspect it is overheating due to calcium build up inside the heater itself. i think i actually "have" flow as i always have and it appears i still do, but the heater itself over heats due to calcium build up in areas i cannot see within the heater which i cannot snake either.

so... i begin my research to see if i can drop the ta to 100ish and ph to 6.8ish to get calcium into the water from the tub (mainly after the heater calcium) and then drain it again. id liek to avoid using my metal control if possible but i think ill need to lower the TA.