Lantern88 Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 Anyone have experience with this product? Will it work with Ozone? and Clearray? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 A more important question is will it work. Period! It is NOT an EPA approved sanizier (BTW, neither is ozone or UV since neither has residual activity.) The website says it has to be used with an EPA approved primary sanitizer and that it is not compatible with biguanide santizer systems. It also really never says what it actually does nor presents any actual studies as to its effectiveness, just a lot of claims and "success stories" . If you believe that stuff I have a bridge that I would like to sell you in NY and some prime waterfront properly in the Everglades! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chem geek Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 It's sphagnum moss and they claim it inhibits biofilm formation. As you say, it isn't EPA-approved on its own so requires chlorine. Of course, if one properly maintains their spa with chlorine, there won't be issues forming significant biofilm so this should be seen as insurance, at best (assuming it works as described). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sluedke Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 Lantern88, Our SpaNaturally product is compatible with ozone and UV (Clearray) although most of our customers find they do not need them once they have starting using SpaNaturally. Neither SpaNaturally or PoolNaturally are sanitizers and therefore need to be used with an approved sanitizer. Besides significantly reducing the overall chemical demand of your spa (sanitizer, de-foamer, acid, bi-carb, etc), SpaNaturally also binds positively charged ions such as heavy metals and calcium which in turn keeps maintenance down on your spa and your UV running more efficiently. If you have questions about biofilm and how it works I encourage you to take a look at Montana State University's - Center for Biofilm Engineering Webiste. Once you know how biofilm works -traditional sanitizers cannot penetrate through the protective coating biofilm secretes - it starts to explain so many of the issues spa/pool owners have with water chemistry imbalance and the ever growing need for more chemicals to try to achieve water balance. If you have any additional question, please free to ask. Thank you in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 Suedke, I have no doubt about the info on biofilms that you posted but it says NOTHING about the effectiveness of sphagnum moss or your products against biofilms and you still have not presented any studies that show the effectiveness either so all we have are some hollow claims and testimonials. If you could show us some actual controlled studies as to the effectiveness of your product in preventing biofilm creation and also on the effect on water balance and chemical use that would be quite a different thing. It'a a matter of money talks and BS walks. I have seen a LOT of 'fad' products come and go over the years. Good case in point are lanthanum based phosphate removers. Now that china has increased the price of the raw materials for these rare earth salts (they used to be dirt cheap, pardon the pun) we are not seeing them being pushed as much since they are no longer as profitable. Could sphagnum moss and biofilms be the repalcement for them as a way to increase the bottom line with another not needed product? There is no 'miracle product' that will replace water testing and management. If you could provide actual controlled studies that show that your products work and actually save money when they are used then I would be most interested. Until then it's just a lot of hollow claims trying to ride on the coattails of science. As for your customer's finding that they don't need UV or ozone...well, they really don't do much in the vast majority of cases and if they were shut off spa owners would most likely never notice a difference at all in their water management requirements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chem geek Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 I repeat, if you kill the planktonic (free-floating) bacteria before they can form biofilms, then you don't get significant biofilms, period. So please stop scaring people into thinking that they WILL get biofilms even if they maintain proper chlorine levels and that your SpaNaturally product is the only way to prevent such biofilms. This paper showed that the consistent use of chlorine made a 5.5-log reduction (that's a reduction of a factor of over 300,000) in bacteria counts on plaster coupons from 1.26x10^6 to 3.72 cfu/cm^2. While it is true that established biofilms are chlorine-resistant, preventing biofilms is an entirely different matter and much easier to do if proper chlorine levels are maintained. For new spas that have been wet-tested and may have biofilms in the piping, we recommend using Spa System Flush along with superchlorination to clean them out. Once clean, they stay clean by maintaining the proper chlorine level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanky Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Half a bottle of Sea-Klear System Flush or Swirl Away, once or twice a year, combined with proper water maintenance, will keep any tub free of biofilm. Flush is about $10.00/ bottle so you're looking at $5 - $10 / year. What's the cost of this product? Is it cheaper? I doubt it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanky Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Just checked their website $94.95 for a "Starter Pack" I think I'll stick to SeaKlear thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Half a bottle of Sea-Klear System Flush or Swirl Away, once or twice a year, combined with proper water maintenance, will keep any tub free of biofilm. And even this is overkill in most cases! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanky Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Half a bottle of Sea-Klear System Flush or Swirl Away, once or twice a year, combined with proper water maintenance, will keep any tub free of biofilm. And even this is overkill in most cases! Better than overkill in the wallet!!! Doesn't look like there's much response from them. Too bad becuase I have another question I'd like them to answer. According to their website FAQ the answer to the question "Do enzimes have an effect on biofilms?" is "The simple answer is no! " followed by what can only be described as dribble. So what exactly was the white goop that SeaKlear (which I believe is enzime, correct me if I'm wrong) cleared out of my plumbing!! Was it not Biofilm? You're right Waterbear B.S. walks and it looks like the're walking!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Bottom line is this, the product is sphagnum moss! Really? REALLY?!? :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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