Help A Newbie Find The Right Water Treatment

[McHarley94]

Hey All, I am a new member here and a new (used) hot tub owner as well, and am looking for some advice.

As the thread title indicates, I need help deciding on the right product for my tub and myself. I recently bought a used 2007 Hot Springs Jetsetter II which was only in operation for one year before being drained and stored due to the previous owners employer relocating him out of the country. Having never owned a hot tub before, instead of researching the topic further I went ahead and bought the Baqua Spa line seeing as that is what the previous owner had used, which he said he decided on because he had sensitive skin and was told by the dealer that this was his best choice. I too have sensitive skin as well so I decided to stick with that plan, but now I am questioning if that was such a wise decision.

I have had the tub up and running for about two weeks now. The only thing I really needed to do was bring the PH down considerably, and add 1.5 table spoons of sanatizer to get the readings in check based on my local dealers water tests. Then I changed out the filters that came with the tub with new ones after the first few days just because it made sense. I have now been using the tub every evening for about a week without issue until today. This morning I added about an inch or so of fresh water just to bring the level up a bit more, then checked the water again with a test strip and everything appeared to be in check except the sanatizer, which was at the lowest reading on the strip, so I added one table spoon of sanatizer, ran the jets for 10 minutes and left it sit for several hours while I went about my day. Tonight I hopped into it the tub and within 10 minutes I noticed a burning sensation of my skin. The water appears crystal clear and smells fine, so why the big change all of the sudden. Would adding that amount of sanatizer make such a huge change?

The more I read, here and elsewhere I am finding that Baqua Spa is not a favorite among many (though there are a select few who seem to love it). All I want is a system that is easy and inexpensive that will not irritate my skin. What is the overwhelming favorite in this regard? And now that I have used Baqua in the tub, and have ran it through these new filters, if I decide to change to another system am I going to have to ditch the filters and flush the tub to make it right?

Any suggestions in regards to all of the above would be greatly appreciated. I am due to have yet another back surgery in less than 3 weeks and I need to get this all settled in beforehand for afterwords I will be in no shape for the remainder of the winter to be draining and cleaning a hot tub. Just getting into it will be a challenge in itself :-(

[McHarley94]

One other thing that may or may not be worth mentioning, but felt it should be just in case...

When I first inspected the service area before filling and firing the tub up I noticed what appeared to be an old kink in the hose feeding into the Fresh Water III Ozone system. The hose showed sever stress cracks at the kink indicating to me that it had always been that way. Making note of this I straightened out the kink best I could and went ahead and used the tub like this, planning on replacing the tube in the near future.

Yesterday afternoon I opened the service panel to confirm the dimension of the tubing so I could order and replace it and discovered that half of the nozzle on the outlet side of the ozonator check valve in the same line had broken off and the line was not even attached to it, being this way for who knows how long, all week or a day? Regardless, realizing then that there was plenty of extra hose rolled up in the enclosure I cut the kink out (along with the other half of the check valve nozzle) discarding that and then plugged the remaining line back into the check valve until the new valve that I ordered arrives.

So for all I know the ozonator has not been working until last night as well and too may have a play in the changes I mention above?

[gman]

McHarley94,

I have never used BaquaSpa products, so I'm speaking with no personal first-hand experience. I do know from this forum that Baquacil is one of three EPA approved sanitizers for hot tubs (the other two being Chlorine and Bromine). It is my understanding that Baquacil is the most expensive of the three sanitizers and perhaps somewhat trickier to establish and maintain proper water chemistry balance than either bromine or chlorine. As I have never used this product, this is just my impression from what I've understood and remember from various posts on this forum.

My recommendations:

Please go to the Hot Tub Water Chemistry subsection on this forum...under the POOL/SPA Water Care Section. Read the following "Hot Topics":

1. Bromine for Beginners

2. Dichlor/Bleach Method in a Nutshell

3. Decontamination

4. Nitro's Approach to Water Maintenance

After reading these hot topics, you will have a better understanding of Bromine and Chlorine water maintenance methods, the two EPA approved sanitizer alternatives to BaquaSpa. You mention you have sensitive skin, but I'm not sure what that means. Are you allergic to chlorine or bromine? If you're not allergic, I suspect one or the other of these methods will be a viable alternative to BaquaSpa for you (and probably cheaper).

If you read the hot topics mentioned above, you'll learn that decontamination is a recommended protocol for any used tub. Even if the tub was maintained well during its brief active life, who knows what kind of bio-films developed in the tub while it was in storage. You should probably decontaminate your tub, whether you switch from BaquaSpa or not.

If you choose to switch to Bromine or Chlorine alternatives, you should probably replace your filters. You can clean them rather than replace them, but... in a post not too long ago, I recall that cleaning filters filled with Baquacil required a special cleaner specifically designed to remove the Baquacil. Normal filter cleaners just turns the Baqua into goo, which might force you to replace the filters. My recollection is that this cleaner is very expensive, so you might just want to replace your filters from the start and save yourself the work. I recommend you get a set of backup filters. With backup filters, your tub will not have any down time. You'll be able to enjoy a soak using your backup filters while your dirty filters soak in their own cleaning solution.

You need to get a good quality drop test kit to conduct chemical tests with usable/accurate/reliable results so you can adjust your water chemistry when needed. You cannot rely on test strips for accurate water chemistry analysis. Test strips are not accurate.

As an aside...I've had my tub for two years. It was new when I bought it through a dealer. Even though it was not used, I decontaminated my tub per the decontamination protocol. Until just recently, I used the Dichlor/Bleach method with wonderful results. I just recently conducted my semi-annual drain/refill. I switched to the 3 step Bromine protocol only because the 3 step Bromine protocol is better suited for my current schedule. I'm away from the tub too many days in a row to give it the attention needed using the Dichlor/Bleach method. Although I'm fairly new to the 3 step Bromine protocol, I've been able to maintain good water chemistry without too much fuss. I've only had to make minor adjustments to the bromine floater. I've been pleased with both methods. I've been able to establish and easily and consistently maintain good water chemistry balance. The information and instructions in the hot topics were essential to my success....that information and a good drop test kit (no test strips).

I hope my suggestions help. Bests wishes for happy and healthy tubbing.

Good luck,

gman

[McHarley94]

The information and instructions in the hot topics were essential to my success....that information and a good drop test kit (no test strips).

I hope my suggestions help. Bests wishes for happy and healthy tubbing.

Good luck,

gman

TY for taking the time to reply in such detail. I have read in brief the threads you mention but will look deeper into these over the weekend. I agree, the test strips are too vague for my liking as well. After further attention I think my recent problem may have been high alkalinity and I have made an attempt to correct the matter, but again, the test strips are giving readings that are different with each test. They tend to bleed into one another even though I am being very careful not to shake it or tip the darn things once dipped and leveled.

Never the less, today I went to the local pool and spa establishment to plead my case and was convinced to go with the trusty old chlorine crystals and shock. Too they suggested Spa Frog which I did buy but have not had the time to research yet. It may or may not go in depending on what I learn about it by the time I complete the following, which is to do as you suggest and clean the tub thoroughly. I purchased a product called Spa Purge, I hope I made the right choice here as well.

The plan is to remove the filters and use the cleaner, running each jet option for several minutes each periodically over the next 24 hours, followed by draining and then vacuum the jets out to assure I get out as much water as possible. Then for extra measure I was going to refill it with clean water, run once more each of the jet options briefly and drain again for safe measure. Seeing as I just replaced the filters just a couple days ago I was hoping to just wash them, but if you really think I need to replace them again :-( Just my luck to have done this prematurely...these new ones are Tri-X ceramic filters too. The wash and double rinse may be overkill, but like you said, Lord knows what has been growing in the lines over the past few years as it sat. As I mentioned before, I am scheduled for a major back surgery in 3 weeks, (my 3rd and final attempt to obtain a solid lumbar fusion), rendering me unable to even use the tub until at least the first of the new year and need to get this beast under control beforehand. My girlfriend will most likely hop in it now and again, but for the most part it will not be used until I can manage getting into, and probably the bigger challenge, out it without much difficulty.

To answer in more detail my skin sensitivity, no allergies that I am aware of, but I am very fair skinned which tends to be quite dry. Too I burn extremely easy in the sun and my hair is naturally very dry as well. Another drawback I read in regards to Baqua Spa was some individuals have experienced throat irritation from it, and wouldn't you know it I have developed a sore throat over the past several days, though this just may be coincidental due to the climate here in Michigan fluctuating quite a bit recently along with my bathing in the tub just about every night this past week or so.

[McHarley94]

OK, now that I have read waterbears sticky in regards to Bromine For Beginners I see that Bromine is the wiser option for my situation, especially since the tub will not be used much in the weeks to come, and the added fact that I will not have the ability to pay close attention to it as well. So, once again off to the local spa establishment where I hope to purchase a real test kit as well :- /

[gman]

OK, now that I have read waterbears sticky in regards to Bromine For Beginners I see that Bromine is the wiser option for my situation, especially since the tub will not be used much in the weeks to come, and the added fact that I will not have the ability to pay close attention to it as well. So, once again off to the local spa establishment where I hope to purchase a real test kit as well :- /

Although there are many test kits, the drop test kit routinely recommended on this forum is the Taylor Technologies K-2106 (for Bromine). Your local store may have this, but don't be surprised if they do not. You can order this online directly from Taylor Technologies. They are usually very prompt with delivery but their price is not the best. You can get the same Taylor K-2106 although the Amato Industries for less money, but they can be slower with delivery. Note: If you change your mind and elect to follow the Dichlor/Bleach protocol (instead of the 3 step Bromine protocol), the Taylor test kit to get is the K-2006.

As for cleaning your filters, there is a thread on this forum titled "Cleaning Spa Filters-what can I use?", which I skimmed again. Cleaning your Bagua filters may not be as costly as I originally sensed when first reading this thread. This thread will give you some idea of what is required and what is involved. Given you haven't used your tub much and just replaced your filters, you may decide cleaning is a viable option. To find the thread, just insert "Baqua" in the "search" engine.

I recommend you also purchase a hose filter to pre-filter your water from your water supply/well when your ready to re-fill your tub for use (after you've decontaminated your tub). Once your tub is full, you'll need to test your water to determine the chemical makeup of your water out of the tap, i.e., CH, TA, pH, etc. You'll use your drop test kit for this.

Before you begin adding any sanitizer to your water, you need to first get the TA, CH, and pH within the parameters recommended in the Hot Topics for the particular protocol you intend to follow (Bromine or Chlorine...there are slight but important differences). Newbies are often unsure as to which chemical to adjust first (and I'm not sure it's clear or definitive in the instructions in the Hot Topics). I've found I get the best results by adjusting the TA first. However, since the pH is effected when adjusting the TA, you need to monitor both at the same time. There are instructions in the Hot Topics that explain how to do this effectively and efficiently. Once you've got your water balanced (within desired parameters) then add your sanitizers/oxidizers to reach the recommended bromine or chlorine levels desired.

Since you have no allergies but have fair skin, you may want to add borates to your tub once you've got everything else taken care of. This will "silken" the water. I like using Pro Team's "Gentle Spa", since it is pH neutral and has a nice scent. It's more expensive though than 20 Mule Team Borax, which you can get in your local store.

If you go with the 3 step Bromine system, you'll need a Bromine Floater. I have the Pentair 335 Bromine Floater, which was recommended by Waterbear in one of his many threads. It has worked very well for me so far.

As an aside...

Many thanks to Waterbear, chemgeek, Nitro and others with specialized knowledge and skills in water chemistry and maintenance, who have generously made many invaluable contributions to this forum for which I have been a direct beneficiary. I hereby also apologize to them if I have inadvertently and unintentionally passed along misinformation because of my own misinterpretation of their analysis and instruction.

Good luck and best wishes for your successful surgery and recovery.

gman

[McHarley94]

The drop test kit routinely recommended on this forum is the Taylor Technologies K-2106 (for Bromine).

Ordered through Amazon this morning, and as you pointed out, I probably won't see it until the end of next week, but seeing as I am to have a Mylogram on Monday morning I won't be doing anything with it until then anyways...I have had spinal headaches before and wish to avoid another at all costs.

As for cleaning your filters, there is a thread on this forum titled "Cleaning Spa Filters-what can I use?", which I skimmed again.

TY for directing me to this thread. I will look at this next

I recommend you also purchase a hose filter to pre-filter your water from your water supply/well when your ready to re-fill your tub for use (after you've decontaminated your tub).

Tub along with Spa Purge, is draining as I type this. Once complete I will wipe the ring down, refill with tap water, run just briefly and drain again before I refill a final time. Though the village I live in does have well water, we do have a very new and quite elaborate water treatment system in place, and as such our water straight from the tap has improved dramatically. Even so, I haven't a pre-filter, so will need to deal with this without, but think it will be good. I did have the water from the tap tested and aside from high alkalinity and pH everything was within range, and very clear to boot.

Before you begin adding any sanitizer to your water, you need to first get the TA, CH, and pH within the parameters recommended in the Hot Topics for the particular protocol you intend to follow (Bromine or Chlorine...there are slight but important differences).

I will be going with bromine for certain at this point. I have purchased a starter packet and crystals and believe the plan is to go with the 2 step option, but may change my mind as I think further on this during the process. I the begining it may be easier on my back. I always have borax on hand, which I use around the foundation of the house to detour ants....works like a charm.

If you go with the 3 step Bromine system, you'll need a Bromine Floater. I have the Pentair 335 Bromine Floater, which was recommended by Waterbear in one of his many threads. It has worked very well for me so far.

Good to know !

I too would like to express my gratitude, not only yo you, gman, but to Waterbear, chemgeek, Nitro and any others for all their efforts. This information is gonna make things a lot easier for me, as I am sure it has others as well

[McHarley94]

In regards to filter cleaning, I already had a bottle of Baqua Filter Cleaner. Ingredients as fillows...

Hydrachloric Acid

Sulfamic Acid

POE (20) Tallow amine

Propylen glycol

Water

I did ask at the local dealer if using this would be compatible seeing as I am switching to bromine, to which they said "No Problem"... I hope they are right.

[waterbear]

If you are switching to a halogen based sanitizer (bromine or chlorine) from a biguanide based sanitizer (Baqua, SoftSoak, Revaciil, etc.) then you MUST replace your filters. You will not be able to clean them and the halogen will react with the remaining biguanide in the filters and cause them to repeatedly clog. Also filters used in a biguanide system need to be replaced yearly so yours are probably due for replacement.

Also, completely drain the tub and refill before you decontaminate with chlorine. You will find that the chlorine will turn any remaining biguanide in the plumbing into a green brown goo. You might have to repeat the decontam. procedure a second time since the first time the chlorine gets used up oxidizing any remaining biguanide.

Once you do that, replace the filters with new ones and throw the old ones out. If the water does not immediately turn greenish, brownish, or cloudy when you add the high dose of chlorine then you only need to decontaminate once.

I will be going with bromine for certain at this point. I have purchased a starter packet and crystals and believe the plan is to go with the 2 step option, but may change my mind as I think further on this during the process. I the begining it may be easier on my back. I always have borax on hand, which I use around the foundation of the house to detour ants....works like a charm.

Be aware that 2 step bromine (sodium bromide and oxidizer) is as much work as chlorine and requires daily testing and attention. 3-step bromine (addition of a bromine floater to the sodium bromide and oxidizer) is the more "forgiving" method if the tub does not get dialy attention.

[McHarley94]

Hello waterbear and Ty for the reply.

Yes because I am going to be out of commission for several weeks once I have had surgery I will be purchasing the floater gman recommended and go with the 3 step option.

In regards to the filters, as mentioned earlier, I JUST put brand new ones in like three or four days before I decided to go the bromine/chlorine route, so less than a week ago. Even so, being they were exposed to the baqua system chemicals do you still think having done an acid wash on them last night that they will still gum up?

After following the directions for the Spa Purge I did empty the tub followed by refilling the tub with fresh water. I then followed the directions in the decontamination thread to a T. Then late last night once.that was completed I refilled the tub, put the freshly washed and dried filters back in and am now in the process of getting the alkalinity and then pH balanced, so bromine has yet to be introduced into the equation. I am at a football gathering atm but planned on following through with bromine this evening.

[McHarley94]

I never did get the chance to start the bromine process yesterday, and as of this morning I had a medical procedure done which has me quarantined to bed rest for the next 48 hours, so I was only able to get the alkalinity and pH within range, and that is based on test strips. Just as well I suppose as another set of new filters, the drop test kit, bromine tablets and floater are all on the way and due by weeks end via UPS. Already have the bromine starter packet, so with any luck once I can be vertical again I may be soaking in acceptable water by the weekend

[McHarley94]

OK, able to be on my feet again, so I've been working on getting my levels right.

Using the test kit suggested I got the alkalinity and pH within range without issue.

Then having a 225 gallon tub I tossed in 1.25oz of bromine starter, followed by 3/4oz of spa shock (potassium peroxymonosulfate) per the directions on the bottle for first time use (based on 1-1/2 oz per 500 gallons)...I don't have any bleach on hand, used what I had left to decontaminate the spa.

That said, if I am using the test kit correctly I am sitting at about 7.5ppm bormine, which is rather high if I am not mistaken, and I have yet to even introduce the floater into the equation.

What do I do to correct this aside from time?

Another question I may as well address...doing the bromine test, which should I follow under Step 1's NOTE: For 1 drop =.05 ppm use 25ml, or For 1 drop = 1.25 ppm use 10ml? I have been using 10ml, just to clarify.

I'll get the hang of this eventually, but I appreciate the forum and its members as a tool to get me there.

[gman]

McFarley94,

What you can do to reduce the 7.5 bromine level is jump in the tub and have a soak. Your current reading of 7.5 may be a bit high (you may want to keep it in the 4 - 6 range), but it's safe to use your tub once the bromine level is under 10 ppm. Your bromine reading will drop depending on how long you soak in the tub (and depending on whether there were any lingering contaminants in the tub after your decontamination). You'll want to regularly test your bromine level for a while to determine how much bromine you consume during your routine soak. Via this trial and error period, you'll test and adjust your bromine floater accordingly until you determine the appropriate dispensing rate for your floater in order to replenish and maintain your bromine at whatever level you desire relative to your average soak. If your use changes or you have more people using the tub than usual and the bromine drops too low, you can always boost your bromine level with bleach or msp. The advantage of using the smaller sample size, i.e., 10 ml versus the 25 ml is this...if you anticipate the bromine level to be high, you will use less of the titrant to determine the amount of bromine in the tub. With the larger sample (25ml), you will use more titrant. The advantage of the 25ml sample is that the you can get a more accurate reading than the 10ml sample.

It seems like your on the right track.

Happy tubbing!

gman

[McHarley94]

The advantage of using the smaller sample size, i.e., 10 ml versus the 25 ml is this...if you anticipate the bromine level to be high, you will use less of the titrant to determine the amount of bromine in the tub. With the larger sample (25ml), you will use more titrant. The advantage of the 25ml sample is that the you can get a more accurate reading than the 10ml sample.

I gathered this just now when I went to test my bromine levels and it took only 2 drops to change to clear. At that point it all made sense and I came here to comment on this only to find your reply....TY

It appears that my pH levels are high, about 8ppm and my alkalinity is about 80ppm, bromine being about 20ppm at this point. Floater is due to be here tomorrow, but tablets not until Monday. I have liquid bromine though so will use that if needed until tablets get here.

Aside from this I think I am getting a handle on everything. I am very glad I found this forum and have obtained the drop test kit... a FAR better option than those darn test strips. Even well rehearsed I can't see how anyone could rely on them with any confidence.

TY Again gman

[waterbear]

I have liquid bromine though so will use that if needed until tablets get here.

Red Flag! The only "liquid bromine" I know of is a solution of sodium bromide that is used to create the bromide reserve in the water on filling. It only needs to be added on filling. After that just use an oxidizer like bleach to activate it into bromine santizer.

You may want to review the sticky on bromine for beginners.

[McHarley94]

Red Flag! The only "liquid bromine" I know of is a solution of sodium bromide that is used to create the bromide reserve in the water on filling. It only needs to be added on filling. After that just use an oxidizer like bleach to activate it into bromine santizer.

You may want to review the sticky on bromine for beginners.

Yes, well see there is a story behind this, waterbear. I questioned this myself having already read (and printing off to take with) the B for B post before returning to the local spa establishment to gather all the chemicals I needed. What they sold me were chemicals bottled locally here in my state, one being Liquid Bromine. On the bottle it states 35% sodium bromide, 65% other ingredient and I knew from the sticky that I needed nothing but sodium bromide (and maybe water) as the ingredients to get a bank going. So after going back out to the car to reread the print out I went back in to specifically ask about this and they again told me this was all I needed to both start and maintain my bromine levels, just use more at start.

Fed up and frustrated, and not feeling good about this I just left and drove to 4 other spa stores over at least 60-70 miles in the process (I live in a rural area) before I finally found a real bromine starter, at Walmart of all places, which pissed me off because right after I left the second spa place, on a hunch based on another thread I had read earlier where a member here stated that the Walmart by him carried it, I called the local Walmart to try and save me another 30 mile trip. Well after being on hold for 5 minutes the snot nose kid in the lawn and garden department returned to says "I don't see anything that say bromine booster". I didn't think to state Bromine Starter, or Bromo Start, which it is called. Yeah I know, shame on me for trusting a Walmart employee. Anyways, that is what I have on hand, a bottle of liquid bromine that is 35% sodium bromide, 65% other ingredient ...should I toss it and call it lesson learned and wait? Again I have the floater, but the tablets are not due till Monday via UPS

[waterbear]

Red Flag! The only "liquid bromine" I know of is a solution of sodium bromide that is used to create the bromide reserve in the water on filling. It only needs to be added on filling. After that just use an oxidizer like bleach to activate it into bromine santizer.

You may want to review the sticky on bromine for beginners.

Yes, well see there is a story behind this, waterbear. I questioned this myself having already read (and printing off to take with) the B for B post before returning to the local spa establishment to gather all the chemicals I needed. What they sold me were chemicals bottled locally here in my state, one being Liquid Bromine. On the bottle it states 35% sodium bromide, 65% other ingredient and I knew from the sticky that I needed nothing but sodium bromide (and maybe water) as the ingredients to get a bank going. So after going back out to the car to reread the print out I went back in to specifically ask about this and they again told me this was all I needed to both start and maintain my bromine levels, just use more at start.

Fed up and frustrated, and not feeling good about this I just left and drove to 4 other spa stores over at least 60-70 miles in the process (I live in a rural area) before I finally found a real bromine starter, at Walmart of all places, which pissed me off because right after I left the second spa place, on a hunch based on another thread I had read earlier where a member here stated that the Walmart by him carried it, I called the local Walmart to try and save me another 30 mile trip. Well after being on hold for 5 minutes the snot nose kid in the lawn and garden department returned to says "I don't see anything that say bromine booster". I didn't think to state Bromine Starter, or Bromo Start, which it is called. Yeah I know, shame on me for trusting a Walmart employee. Anyways, that is what I have on hand, a bottle of liquid bromine that is 35% sodium bromide, 65% other ingredient ...should I toss it and call it lesson learned and wait? Again I have the floater, but the tablets are not due till Monday via UPS

The 65% is probably water since it is a liquid. There are several on the market such as Proteam Brom Start and Rendezvous (GLB) Enhance. These are just solutions of sodium bromide. You need to use an oxidizer such as MPS or chlorine with them (this is 2 step bromine). When used with tablets in a floater you now have 3 step bromine. It really makes no difference whether you use a solution of sodium bromide or dry sodium bromide to create the reserve other than the amount you will need to achieve a 30 ppm bromide level in the water. Obviously you will require less of the pure sodium bromide salt than you would of a solution of the salt in water.

There are combination products that contain both sodium bromide and an oxidizer (usually dichlor, a form of chlorine) together in one bottle for a "1 step bromine" that is in reality nothing more than 2 step bromine simplified (and not as successful, IMHO) but they are packaged as a DRY mixture and not in a solution for obvious reasons! If it is a liquid it is going to be a solution of sodium bromide and needs a separate oxidizer to create bromine santizer.

Once you have created your bromide reserve in the water you do not need to add more until the next drain and refill. You only need to add an oxidizer to reconvert the bromide back into hypobromous acid (which, when it sanitizes, converts back into bromide).

[McHarley94]

The 65% is probably water since it is a liquid. There are several on the market such as Proteam Brom Start and Rendezvous (GLB) Enhance. These are just solutions of sodium bromide. You need to use an oxidizer such as MPS or chlorine with them (this is 2 step bromine). When used with tablets in a floater you now have 3 step bromine. It really makes no difference whether you use a solution of sodium bromide or dry sodium bromide to create the reserve other than the amount you will need to achieve a 30 ppm bromide level in the water. Obviously you will require less of the pure sodium bromide salt than you would of a solution of the salt in water.

There are combination products that contain both sodium bromide and an oxidizer (usually dichlor, a form of chlorine) together in one bottle for a "1 step bromine" that is in reality nothing more than 2 step bromine simplified (and not as successful, IMHO) but they are packaged as a DRY mixture and not in a solution for obvious reasons! If it is a liquid it is going to be a solution of sodium bromide and needs a separate oxidizer to create bromine santizer.

Once you have created your bromide reserve in the water you do not need to add more until the next drain and refill. You only need to add an oxidizer to reconvert the bromide back into hypobromous acid (which, when it sanitizes, converts back into bromide).

K, so what u r saying is I could have used the liquid I was sold, only I would have required a larger quantity up front being it is a 35% solution, yes?

I used the Brom-Start I bought at Wally World instead, which is in crystal form and is 99% sodium bromide, so I knew I was good there. I put in 1.25 oz of this followed by 3/4 oz of Spa Shock (potassium peroxymonosulfate) as an oxidizer. That put me at about 7.5, but within 24 hours it was down to under 2. I plan to recheck all the levels here in a few.

Incidentally, prior to the intro of bromine I had the TA and pH right where they needed to be, but once the bromine and shock had a couple hours to settle in the TA went way down and required like 5 tablespoons of arm n hammer to get it back up. Is this to be expected?

I used the tub for the first time last night and I have to say the water felt much 'softer' than with baqua, which I like, and barely any noticeable odor to speak of as well.

[SuzyQ442]

The 65% is probably water since it is a liquid. There are several on the market such as Proteam Brom Start and Rendezvous (GLB) Enhance. These are just solutions of sodium bromide. You need to use an oxidizer such as MPS or chlorine with them (this is 2 step bromine). When used with tablets in a floater you now have 3 step bromine. It really makes no difference whether you use a solution of sodium bromide or dry sodium bromide to create the reserve other than the amount you will need to achieve a 30 ppm bromide level in the water. Obviously you will require less of the pure sodium bromide salt than you would of a solution of the salt in water.

There are combination products that contain both sodium bromide and an oxidizer (usually dichlor, a form of chlorine) together in one bottle for a "1 step bromine" that is in reality nothing more than 2 step bromine simplified (and not as successful, IMHO) but they are packaged as a DRY mixture and not in a solution for obvious reasons! If it is a liquid it is going to be a solution of sodium bromide and needs a separate oxidizer to create bromine santizer.

Once you have created your bromide reserve in the water you do not need to add more until the next drain and refill. You only need to add an oxidizer to reconvert the bromide back into hypobromous acid (which, when it sanitizes, converts back into bromide).

K, so what u r saying is I could have used the liquid I was sold, only I would have required a larger quantity up front being it is a 35% solution, yes?

I used the Brom-Start I bought at Wally World instead, which is in crystal form and is 99% sodium bromide, so I knew I was good there. I put in 1.25 oz of this followed by 3/4 oz of Spa Shock (potassium peroxymonosulfate) as an oxidizer. That put me at about 7.5, but within 24 hours it was down to under 2. I plan to recheck all the levels here in a few.

Incidentally, prior to the intro of bromine I had the TA and pH right where they needed to be, but once the bromine and shock had a couple hours to settle in the TA went way down and required like 5 tablespoons of arm n hammer to get it back up. Is this to be expected?

I used the tub for the first time last night and I have to say the water felt much 'softer' than with baqua, which I like, and barely any noticeable odor to speak of as well.

Just for the heck of it, I've decided to put in my 2 cents worth... Yes, McHarley, you could have used the 35% bromide solution, that's what I used for my tub (added about 1 cup for a 400 gal tub, following directions on the label), plus oxidizer of course. Save your liquid bromide for the next fill... it'll do just fine.

Regarding bromine level drop, if the level was at 7.5, and, if I understand correctly, you had a soak and did not add any oxidizer afterwards, it is normal that your level has dropped. 2 step bromine (no floater) requires constant addition of oxidizer, almost daily. Is the floater in yet? The chlorine included in the tablets will help to maintain an acceptable bromine level.

Your TA will always have a tendency to fluctuate downwards with bromine since tablets are acidic and so is the MPS. However, since you are still in the "adjustment phase", I will reiterate Waterbear's good advice to me (and I paraphrase): wait a while before fussing around with it, or you will walk right into the yo-yo syndrome; TA too low - add bicarb.. TA or PH goes too high, add acid. TA gets too low... you see the picture. With a little patience (wait a couple of days), it should settle and you will have a better idea of what your "real" levels are. If the TA falls below 50 however, then add some bicarb but I would suggest aiming for a level of maximum 70 to start with. If you add more (let's say to get to a level of 90 or 100), your PH may skyrocket and then... yo-yo syndrome again. Been there, and that's no fun at all.

My tub has about 70 jets in it, so lots of aeration going on. If my TA is higher than 60, the PH goes way high because of the strong aeration. At a TA of 60 or 50, PH remains at 7.4 to 7.6, and stays there. So if your TA is 50 or higher, and PH is ok, leave it be. All is well. Just monitor your TA every 4 days or so and adjust (slowly) if it falls below 50. Keep an eye on the PH daily for a week or 2 to make sure it doesn't go below 7.2. If it does, increase TA.

Once you have set your TA and added the floater, you will find that your bromine tub only needs a minimum amount of maintenance time, for maximum enjoyment It will be routine testing, shocking once a week or so, and filling up the floater about once a week.

[waterbear]

What Suzy said! Couldn't have said it better myself!

[McHarley94]

I TY Suzy, for taking the time to post. All good info for sure. I have had the floated, it was the bromine tabs I have been waiting on, shipped UPS. Sadly my elder father has taken ill so I've been preoccupied with this and am not home to follow through with tending to the tub. I do tend to obsess to perfection so your advice is well received....give things time to settle in before making more changes. I only have a little over a week left to enjoy the tub before my surgery at which point it will sit unused for the better part of 2 months and I aim to get this all under control by then. This forum and all of your advice has been a huge aid in doing so...TY

[SuzyQ442]

What Suzy said! Couldn't have said it better myself!

Stop that you're making me blush!

[SuzyQ442]

I TY Suzy, for taking the time to post. All good info for sure. I have had the floated, it was the bromine tabs I have been waiting on, shipped UPS. Sadly my elder father has taken ill so I've been preoccupied with this and am not home to follow through with tending to the tub. I do tend to obsess to perfection so your advice is well received....give things time to settle in before making more changes. I only have a little over a week left to enjoy the tub before my surgery at which point it will sit unused for the better part of 2 months and I aim to get this all under control by then. This forum and all of your advice has been a huge aid in doing so...TY

My pleasure. Until you receive your tablets, just add a little MPS (or bleach) every day. It'll keep things going & when you are recuperating from your surgery, the tablets will do most of the work for you.

[McHarley94]

OK, I am getting down to D Day (Thursday) for my surgery and am trying to get things in balance before I go in, but I am having one problem....I cannot seem to get both the alkalinity and pH in check at the same time, so I was hoping for a little prompt advice.

First off I LOVE the drop test kit suggested, but the DPD powder that came with is not quite a "powder"...it has small chunks in it like it was not ground well and these chunks do not dissolve very freely unless I let it sit for several minutes, and even then some of them never dissolve. I was thinking on using a mortar and pestles but I did not want to compromise the chemistry of the DPD. Any suggestions here? Or just leave it sit several minutes, and is it ok to shake it to speed things up?

OK on to my main problem....I know I need to get the alkalinity in check first, but by doing so the pH has been going above 8ppm, usually not far, but enough...maybe one or two drops of acid demand regent to get a good reading in the test kit. So to correct this I will add the required amount of dry acid (I have tried it both dry, and/or dissolving it in water first before adding it in tub) to get the pH in check, but in doing this the alkalinity then drops to about 20-30ppm. So to get that back up to about 100ppm I use baking soda, but when I finally get that correct, then the pH is once again above 8 ppm.

How do I find the fine line to get them both in check?

Editted to say, ATM the alkalinity is at 90ppm and it took 2 drops of acid demand regent to get the pH in the drop kit to read 7.4, what nest?

One other question while I am at it....once I have had my surgery the tub is going to sit unused for the most part of a couple months. I will not be able to even check it without assistance from a friend, but of course know I need to. My question is, should I keep the tempeture at 104F, or should/could I lower it to save energy and/or help keep things balanced better while not in use, and if so how low should I go, or would I be better off leaving it at 104F?

Thank You for being here...I would be lost without the advice I am obtaining from eveyone

[chem geek]

Don't try and keep the TA so high. The basic rule is if your pH tends to rise, then lower the TA level. TA is a measure of the over-carbonation of your water so with more aeration from spa jets or an ozonator the pH will rise more if the pH is higher. Bromine tabs are net acidic (as is Dichlor) so would tend to keep the pH in check, but if it keeps getting to high then it's perfectly OK to maintain a lower TA level, even 50 ppm if that is what is needed.