Head Swimming With All The Choices

[cremevette]

I'm having a hard time deciding which way to go with the purchase of a spa. I've looked at new and used, premium brand and eBay types. It seems I have four routes to go: 1. new from a dealer with warranty with a hefty pricetag, 2. new from eBay or Walmart with warranty and questionable service and longevity, 3. used premium brand such as Hot Springs or Sundance with no warranty and mid-range price, 4. buy an older one and roll the dice. I looked at two used. One was a Hot Springs, 5 years old, which looked immaculately cared for. The Moto Massage had some issues with the range it flexed, but otherwise it looked brand new. He was asking $4K and got $3.9K for it. I had offered $3K. Also missed out on a 2 year old tub (forget name) that went for $2.5K. And finally, I looked at a 5 year old Sundance yesterday that the seller is firm on $3K. It looked in nearly new condition except for the cover.

Like everyone, I'd like to keep the price down, which is why I was leaning toward the good used, but the lack of warranty with a shell makes me pause. I should add this isn't my first go-around with a spa. I had one 15 years ago, so I know the +/- of them. They've changed a lot in the years.

Thoughts and suggestions please?

[Autoplay]

If you happen to be the handyman type,most repairs if and when they arise,you could handle on your own. So in that regards,looking at a used tub with zero warranty,is a route you could persue.

In the 8 years of ownership of my spa,I have fixed various things,and found parts via online.

Ultimately,I would suggest going with a name brand,as they are built to a higher quality compared to Ebay tubs etc. You'll find they last longer,have high quality parts,and can find parts for em etc.

FYI.....I have had zero issues with my "Caldera" shell,which is now over 8 years old. When I initially purchased the spa,1 of the things that impressed me with the spa,and Calderas product line,was the way they manufactuer the shells. When you go look at spas etc......where the lip of the shell overlaps the siding of the tub....try taking a look at that. You'll have to bend down and look up,or,turn your head upside down and look underneath lol. Visually looking at the edge of the shell,will give you an idea of how it's made I.E. layers involved,thicknesss etc etc.

If any other questions,don't hesitate to ask.

[Spa_Guru]

Always wet test.

This eliminates everything web or big box store based, and used tubs that are not up and running full of hot water.

Expecting quality out of the cheapest price is a fool's errand, you might as well buy a car for $300 and have high hopes of reliability or efficiency.

Buying a used spa should be approached with great caution, but if you aren't afraid do drop another $1500 into the used tub in the first year, buy anything.

As I state in my profile, my service experience leads me to Marquis spas, as replacement parts are pennies on the dollar compared to Most major brand names (Arctic, Demension One, Sundance/Jacuzzi, Hot Springs) proprietary parts.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

I'm having a hard time deciding which way to go with the purchase of a spa. I've looked at new and used, premium brand and eBay types. It seems I have four routes to go: 1. new from a dealer with warranty with a hefty pricetag, 2. new from eBay or Walmart with warranty and questionable service and longevity, 3. used premium brand such as Hot Springs or Sundance with no warranty and mid-range price, 4. buy an older one and roll the dice. I looked at two used. One was a Hot Springs, 5 years old, which looked immaculately cared for. The Moto Massage had some issues with the range it flexed, but otherwise it looked brand new. He was asking $4K and got $3.9K for it. I had offered $3K. Also missed out on a 2 year old tub (forget name) that went for $2.5K. And finally, I looked at a 5 year old Sundance yesterday that the seller is firm on $3K. It looked in nearly new condition except for the cover.

Like everyone, I'd like to keep the price down, which is why I was leaning toward the good used, but the lack of warranty with a shell makes me pause. I should add this isn't my first go-around with a spa. I had one 15 years ago, so I know the +/- of them. They've changed a lot in the years.

Thoughts and suggestions please?

1) New from dealer is obviously the pricier option but then again you know what you're getting since its new and comes with a warranty. If you go this route I'd stick with one of the better manufacturers like Caldera, D1, Hot Spring, Jacuzzi and Sundance.

2) The eBay idea is a VERY bad one IMO. EBay is great for many things but the stories of what people get with that spa option is frightening. Who aer you going to complain to when the spa is a POS? The Walmart option is only marginally better that the horrbily bad EBay option but still not a good option IMO.

3 & 4) Buying used is fine if a) you are handy, you see the spa filled, up to temp and fully oeprational, c) teh price is reasonable and d) you are buying a well made brand such as the ones I mentioned earlier.

[cremevette]

I forgot one important piece of info ... I'm a 48 yo woman, so I don't have many "handy" skills. I think at this point I'm going to stick with searching for that good used spa. There is a local Sundance, and a Jacuzzi that is a couple hours away.

[Spa_Guru]

A good indicator of a well maintained spa is to look at the underside of the spa cover and look at the amount the color changes where the cover is over the water vs where it contacts the shell, an abusively over-chlorinated spa will tend to be bleached out, and there will be a texture change as well, avoid these spas completely, they are just a time bomb of repairs waiting to happen.

Insist that the owner of the spa have it running and full of hot water when you get there, and try for a tub no more than 3 - 5 years old.

However, if your choices are a 2 year old spa with a bleached out cover, or a 5 year old spa that looks great, take the 5 year old one.

Any spa that can be removed from the old location flat vs being tipped up on it's side is going to weather the trip better, and you should have the spa professionally moved.

Have a licenced electrician do the hook-up who is familiar with GFCI installations, and PULL A PERMIT because if you don't, and anything goes wrong, your home owner's insurance will not cover you for liability.

[Trigger]

The only thing I am going to add is that lower end Ebay tubs and the low end thermal tubs (not full foamed) are lousy in cold climates. If you plan on having this tub outside and you are in a cold region, then get a quality tub, new, used, whatever.

Otherwise your electriciy bill will be greater than what you paid for the tub. I had a used low end Thermal style tub and when the temperature dipped below 45 degrees, the electic bill shot up like a rocket.

[spawn]

cremevette - Perhaps there is one more option besides the four you identified or maybe we can just call it a variation of your first option - 1A - and that is to buy one of the lower priced quality lines from a respected manufacturer from a good dealer. For example from Marquis, their Everyday line, from D1, their @home line or from Watkins, their Solana line. These tubs cost less and have shorter warranties and less features but are well made tubs.

Sometimes when shopping for a tub I think buyers get distracted by features, jet count, jet types etc. Personally, I am big fan of simplicity. A well made simple tub will not only cost less to purchase but also to own and maintain. For most people, a big tub of hot water provides a fully satisfying spa experience. Some people may benefit from more effective jetting but I think differences in jetting are over-emphasized in spa sales for the most part.

Another option is the smaller round tubs. A neighbor of mine who can afford any tub that he likes recently replaced his aging Sundance spa with a simple round Nordic and couldn't be happier. He likes the simplicity and economy and although he is in his sixties feels no need for more sophisticated jetting. Don't overlook the simple round tubs from quality manufacturers, especially if primarily you and maybe one other person will be using it. Prices vary depending on where you live but Marquis, D1, Nordic and others make nice round tubs.

[Spa_Guru]

Spawn has made a great point, I remember when four jets was normal, and 12 was extravagant.

You get therapy from a spa of at least three kinds

1) Bouyancy/weightlessness -- all of the muscles that are in use, even when you lay in bed, are now able to relax.

2) Heat -- this helps burn calories and relax you at the same time.

3) Enhanced circulation stimulated by jetting -- this allows more pain relief and speeds healing of stressed tissue.

There are of course, many other types of advantages claimed by one manufacturer or another, I won't get into that at the moment, the point is, even the simplest tub can provide these quality-of-life enhancing items.

A lot of folks actually hate jets because they get irritated skin from them, different manufacturers try different approaches to prevent irritation, Sundance, Marquis and Jacuzzi much to their credit, manages to do so without significant moving parts in the jet.

One way to tell if you are going to like the jets in a given tub is to put the back of your hand up against one for two minutes while it runs full speed (time it) if at the end of two minutes your skin is irritated, you are looking at the wrong type of tub.

[cremevette]

Excellent points! I saw my first round tub yesterday and thought "less may be more!" My early 90s spa maybe had a couple jets in each seat. No TV, no music, nothing elaborate. Guess what? I slept like a baby when I got out of it. The only things I hated was the lounge, the bubblers, and the floating pillows. I don't remember missing not having 80 jets.

I went to look at the Sundance over the weekend. It made the '06 Hot Springs that I missed out on look brand new. The straps were torn on the cover, the cover was dirty, and it had been kept on a slope. I'm sure there had to be times when the water was sloshing over one side. Yet, it looks to be in very good condition. People are quick to point out the warranty, but it's hard getting through to them that it's a crap shoot for me because the warranty will not carry over. I have a couple more to look at soon, but may go back to him with an offer I know he's not going to like.

I have a good professional hauler lined up. Unfortunately it will have to go on its side to get placed on my deck. I believe there's a 5' gap between posts in the deck, and I don't see a way around tipping it. Also, with wet weather coming in I hope I didn't miss my chance, as it would have to go through areas of grass.

[Trigger]

...I went to look at the Sundance over the weekend. It made the '06 Hot Springs that I missed out on look brand new....

Don't put too much emphisis on the cover. Chances are if you go the used route, you'll need a new cover sooner than later anyhow. My experience is a cover usually lasts 4-5 year...kinda of like tires on a used car. It's great if they are in good shape, but don't pass over a low milage lexus for a shiney kia because of the tires.

[JimKW]

When buying used just take your time and watch for the right one. You will know it when you see it, especially if you look at a good many before buying. I ended up buying a 2005 Sundance Optima last year for $2,000. It was in great shape and I pretty much knew when I read the ad on Craigslist I wanted to be the first to look at it. It belonged to a family that was moving to Texas and it was fully operational. He had set up appointments for people to come and see it, but somehow I convinced him to let me come an hour before the first appointment and I bought it on the spot after my wife and I wet tested it and talked to him about how he took care of it.

I ended up paying about another $1,000 to get it delivered and for an electrician. I've had it about a year and a half now and I've had to replace a motor, the heater and the flow switch. I did all this myself by finding instructions right here and elsewhere on the internet. I might have put about $600 total in all three items. And if you are at all handy with a wrench and a screwdriver you could do what I have done. They were all very simple fixes right inside the control panel.

I would think your money is much better spent on a fairly late model used high end spa than on a cheaper brand new spa. The five to six year old rule is probably a good one as somebody stated earlier. I would not have bought one over 10 years old for sure.

I also just replaced all the pillows which was about $300 if I remember correctly. They were starting to peel and had a bit of an odor. The cover was only about a year old when I bought it. I have replaced the filter twice since I bought it, but that is something I probalby would have done on a brand new one also.

[cremevette]

Got a bit of a surprise with the 2002 Marquis Mirage. It looked brand new and the owner reported he had never needed to make a repair. Two deal breakers for me though. One is that it's at 31" which is small in my opinion. They state it holds six people, but I don't know where. It's got a lounge, two buckets, and a step/cooling off bench. It didn't look much bigger than a garden tub to me at 210 gallons. I think it's a step down from what I used to have. Second deal breaker was the wood cabinet. It would be going from a sun room to my outdoor deck, and I remember taking care of the cedar yearly. I think I'll give synthetic a try.

The Sundance Bahia owner emailed me that he wants to be flexible on the price. That's good news. It's very high on my list. Jim, thanks for the advice on the cover. From the looks of it, I'd give it a couple more years.

An Arctic Cub owner is available to look at his tub today. I haven't heard such good reviews on them here, but I suppose it's worth a look. What do you all think of the 2007 reliability?

And finally got an email from the owner of a Jacuzzi a couple hours way (yikes). It was "fully operational when it was loaded onto the truck for delivery a few weeks ago." I don't think that one is worth further investigation even at the $1900 asking price!

I'm pretty much falling into the "buy a premium used 5 years and under" mode, especially with people knowing they'll have to come down with their prices in this economy.

[cremevette]

"And if you are at all handy with a wrench and a screwdriver you could do what I have done." One more thing ... Jim, I think you might be right. I knocked off a wall light switch this past weekend, and replaced it myself. Lots of caution, lots of paying attention how it came apart, some advice from the helpful man at the hardware store, and I had it put back together myself in no time. Small project, but a big confidence booster. My dad was proud.