Decontamination Then Dichlor/bleach Method

[ga_Kristy]

Ok, so I have read and printed so much information! Now, I am a bit overwhelmed. Sorry this will be a lot but I read and read and I just want to be sure.

I did order a Taylor K-2006. I do want to do the decontamination process and Dichlor/Bleach method that is mentioned on this forum. When we got the tub about 6 mo ago, on set up the spa tech poured a full bottle pH balance in there and told us to use a cap of shock weekly and clean the filter weekly, that's all we knew and didn't think to learn more since he said that was it. He never told us to test or anything, said all that stuff wasn't necessary if you add the shock weekly. Then someone else said we could go as much as a year w/o refilling if I used the chemicals weekly. I haven't been happy with my tub in like 3 months now and have had some female problems and wonder if that's where it came from. its been over a month since I got in. So I found this site because I wanted to drain the tub and start over, hoping to find out what the correct thing to do is. This chemical stuff goes right over my head, I had no idea that having a spa was this much work..lol

I am learning though. I love all the advise about using some products that are around the house. I am still a little unclear about all of them though. I went to the nearest pool/spa store the only Enzyme stuff was SpaGuard Natural Spa Enzyme but they said it was for weekly use. Well I got it anyways,thinking it didn't matter b/c it was a major decontamination process but now I can't find where this will be ok or something totally different....should I go somewhere else and get the spa flush/swirl away etc?

After set up I will need: Water Balance:

For pH and TA

Borax (or) washing soda (both found at the grocery store?) to raise the pH if needed But I also need sodium bicarbonate/sodium hydrogen carbonate aka baking soda for that reason?

AND muriatic acid (or) dry acid (both have to be bought at the pool/spa store?) to lower the pH? and the pH/TA works together meaning use the Lowering TA-Aeration process to get them straight, correct?

For CH

Calcium chloride/increaser/dehydrator (only found at pool/spa store?)But I do have city water and can also filter the hose water if needed. Should I go out and buy this now anyways? Will the Taylor kit ck this b/c I do not see it on the test strips or aqua chem drop test I have? Speaking of, it does have testing for Bromine what will that read if using this method?

Sanitation:

Dichlor which is a chlorine and cyanuric acid (cya)/chlorine stabilizer. (only found at a pool/spa store?) until its somewhere between 20-30, again does the taylor kit read this, is this total chlorine on a pool test strip? Then use 6% bleach.

Potassium Monopersulfate-MPS, which stands for? or non chlorine shock (only found at the pool/spa store?)

I have a few left over aqua chem pool products (which I had trouble with all summer)Can I do anything with any of these?

balance + protect (cyanuric acid)

kills green algae/algaecide 50% (dimethyl benzyl ammonium chloride)

balance +protect (sodium carbonate) Can I use this like baking soda since I have it already on hand too?

Again, sorry so many questions. I know I will have more questions after I will read over and organize all the info I printed in a binder. Thanks

[waterbear]

This chemical stuff goes right over my head, I had no idea that having a spa was this much work..lol

Hang in there, you will be an expert in no time!

I am learning though. I love all the advise about using some products that are around the house. I am still a little unclear about all of them though. I went to the nearest pool/spa store the only Enzyme stuff was SpaGuard Natural Spa Enzyme but they said it was for weekly use. Well I got it anyways,thinking it didn't matter b/c it was a major decontamination process but now I can't find where this will be ok or something totally different....should I go somewhere else and get the spa flush/swirl away etc?

The weekly enzyme products are a maintenance product that are usually unnecessary. I suspect the dosage is low. You can get the spa pruge products from several online sources.

After set up I will need: Water Balance:

For pH and TA

Borax (or) washing soda (both found at the grocery store?) to raise the pH if needed But I also need sodium bicarbonate/sodium hydrogen carbonate aka baking soda for that reason?

Baking soda raises TA (the amount of carbonation in the water) with minimal impact on pH, However the higher the TA the faster the pH will rise to above 8.0

Where you put the TA depends mostly on what you use for sanitation, Dichlor, organic bromine tabs, and MPS are all acidic and a slightly higher TA can keep pH more stable. The hypochlorites are more pH neutral and better pH stability is achieved with a lower TA since the outgassing of CO2 from aeration of the jets is the main cause of pH rise. Lower the carbonation (TA) and there is less CO2 to outgas.

Washing soda raises BOTH pH and TA quickly but often raises pH too much. Very rarely needed with spas, usually needed with pools run on trichlor.

If you need to raise pH without having a large impact on TA then borax is a much better choice. You would use about twice the amount of borax by weight as soda ash (washing soda) for the same pH rise but the borax will not cause the TA to rise appreciably since it is not adding any carbonation (carbonates or bicarbonates) to the water.

Often, the best way to raise pH is to uncover the spa, turn on all the aerators, and run it until the pH rises. Once again, it is rare that pH needs to be raised in a spa, it usually needs to be lowered. If you have very acidic fill water or overdose on adding acid then you might need to add a pH increaser.

AND muriatic acid (or) dry acid (both have to be bought at the pool/spa store?) to lower the pH?

Correct. You can also find Muriatic acid at hardware and big box stores but the pool supply often has the best price. I would recommend using the dry acid since it is very easy to overdose with muriatic, given the small amount needed for most spas. Dry acid is much easier to use and measure in small quantities but it is more expensive.

and the pH/TA works together meaning use the Lowering TA-Aeration process to get them straight, correct?

To lower TA drop the pH to 7.0 and not lower, measure TA, aerate to raise pH above 7.4. Repeat until TA is where you want it. At first TA might not move very much at all and you might need a lot of acid to lower the pH but as the TA gets "consumed" by outgassing of CO2 it takes less and less acid to drop the pH and the TA starts moving downward faster.

For CH

Calcium chloride/increaser/dehydrator (only found at pool/spa store?)But I do have city water and can also filter the hose water if needed. Should I go out and buy this now anyways?

CH is more of an issue with plaster spas. If you have a portable or built in that has an acrylic shell it is not as important and you can follow the guidelines below:

If your fill water is above about 130 ppm you don't need to add any more calcium, if it is above about 400 ppm you should add a stain and scale or calcium hardness reducer on a weekly basis. If it is lower than 130 bump it up to about 130-150 ppm. If you are between 130-400 ppm don't worry about it.

Will the Taylor kit ck this b/c I do not see it on the test strips or aqua chem drop test I have? Speaking of, it does have testing for Bromine what will that read if using this method?

The Taylor K-2006 and K-2106 will both test for CH. Strips only test total hardness when they include a hardness test so they are useless here.

Any chlorine test kit can also test bromine by multiplying the chlorine reading by 2.25. The difference between the K-2006 (chlorine) and K-2106 (bromine) is that the K-2006 is calibrated for chlorine and includes a test for combined chlorine and cyanuric acid. These tests are not needed in bromine systems so they are not included in the K-2106 and the sanitizer test is calibrated for bromine so you don't have to do the math.

Sanitation:

Dichlor which is a chlorine and cyanuric acid (cya)/chlorine stabilizer. (only found at a pool/spa store?)

and at some big box stores like Walmart and Home Depot, etc. Read the label.

until its somewhere between 20-30, again does the taylor kit read this, is this total chlorine on a pool test strip? Then use 6% bleach.

NO, this is free chlorine. The taylor kit tests both free chlorine and combined chlorine. TC=FC+CC

Potassium Monopersulfate-MPS, which stands for? or non chlorine shock (only found at the pool/spa store?)

and some big box stores, It is non chlorine shock. Might or might not be needed. Much depends on spa usage.

I have a few left over aqua chem pool products (which I had trouble with all summer)Can I do anything with any of these?

balance + protect (cyanuric acid)

You can use this instead of dichlor and start using bleach immediately for chlorination. It is slow dissolving and will take a few days to completely dissolve. You will need .25 oz per 100 gallons to achieve a CYA of just under 20 ppm, which should be perfect.

kills green algae/algaecide 50% (dimethyl benzyl ammonium chloride)

Not needed, not recommended. Causes foaming!

balance +protect (sodium carbonate) Can I use this like baking soda since I have it already on hand too?

No, since this is washing soda! (sodium carbonate) and not baking soda (sodium bicarbonate). I would be very surprised if there was not a box of baking soda already in your house in the kitchen or bathroom!

Again, sorry so many questions. I know I will have more questions after I will read over and organize all the info I printed in a binder. Thanks

Hope this helps.

[PFC5]

I thought Baking Soda raises both TA and pH hand in hand, while Washing Soda raises pH and only raises TA slightly. I thought that was what Chem Geek stated in other posts.

[waterbear]

I thought Baking Soda raises both TA and pH hand in hand, while Washing Soda raises pH and only raises TA slightly. I thought that was what Chem Geek stated in other posts.

Nope. I am sure you misread it. Baking soda raises TA and causes a slight raise in pH. Washing soda raises both a lot. Borax raises pH with minimal impact on TA.

Without going into the detailed chemistry let's just say that at normal pool pH ranges there is very little carbonate ion present.It get converted into bicarbonate ion so even if you add sodium carbonate you end up with sodium bicarbonate. You just get more of a pH rise than if you had only used sodium bicarbonate since the sodium carbonate is able to 'use up' more hydrogen ions.

[chem geek]

I thought Baking Soda raises both TA and pH hand in hand, while Washing Soda raises pH and only raises TA slightly. I thought that was what Chem Geek stated in other posts.

I wrote the opposite of what you wrote. Baking Soda (sodium bicarbonate) raises TA and only raises pH if there is aeration; washing soda (pH Up; sodium carbonate) raises both pH and TA.

[PFC5]

I stand corrected. Thanks for clearing that up.

[ga_Kristy]

Ok, I think Iv'e messed up big time.

We got the spa drained and spaflushed, then superchlornied and drained again.

We refilled it Sunday 2/6. I am still trying to work on the balancing though and here it is Friday night 2/11.

325gallon spa

According to the Taylor K-2006 (if Im doing it correctly)

DAT 1 Sunday: the pH was 7.4 and the TA 50

So we added 1.8 oz of baking soda to raise the TA a little.

Then added Calcium Harder increaser b/c it was at (I think) 60.

Added Borax too. (how do you test this?)

DAY 2 Monday:

tested: ph higher than 8.0 (doesn't read that high)

TA 220

CH 80

Needed dry acid to lower TA do hubby went to the pool store. They did not have, offered to test sample though. Hubby went to buy Muruatic acid at Home Dept, but after reading about it I got nervous to use it.

DAY 3 Tuesday:Tested at the pool store:

CYA 0

Total chlorine 0.3

Free chlorine 0

( of course, I thought you didnt add anything until its balanced)

pH 8.8

Total Alk 220

Total Hardness 96 (is the CH?)

Somehow hubby told me the saleslady said he didnt need a pH decreaser, didnt sale him anything??? IDK!

told him to add chlorinating concentrate (b/c nothing was in it)

Day 5 Thurs: tested at home

added pH decreaser from walmart (sodium bisulate) 1oz

added walmarts balance & protect (cyanuric acid) 1oz

added CH increaser

Day 6 Friday: tested

pH still above 8.0

TA 140

CH 100

added bleach b/c I thought maybe i should b/c its just too long w/o anything( no one has got in either)also as I was thinking Waterbear said it was ok to use the cyanuric acid (b/c I had it on hand already then go ahead and use bleach)Though I wasnt sure I knew how to get it to 10ppm to shock it. So I used the math from the decontamination page, but I didnt shock with dichlor. I had used the cya earlier to I used 1/5 amount suggested there. 6.4 oz bleach for 10ppm instead of 32 for 50ppm (used 6oz since I have a 325 gal not a 350 gal) &

added pH decreaser 1 oz

I dont understand how to test the clorine (free, combined) b/c of the for 1 drop=0.2ppm, use 25ml and for 1 drop= 0.5ppm, use 10ml. Confused.

So I played around with the test strips.

Its reading:

Total Bromine 6 (huh? Am I suppose to have any of this? Did I add something I shouldn't if so how do I fix that?)

Free chlorine at least 10

ta looks like 120-140 with blue edges? (close to the drop test of 140 but there isnt a blue choice on that section)

pH at least 8.4

total hardness somewhere between 100-250 color but has pink edges (is this CH)

Is the edges b/c of the fresh bleach?

where did I go wrong and am I doomed?

at what point can we get in in?

when using the cya & bleach how do I determine how much to use?

I read a lot of stuff talking about testing again in a week but also says test 2x a day,

any simple explanation for testing the chorine and when and how much to use or figure out how much to use when telling me to get it to 10ppm. after bal. I needs to never get below 1 FC? but not higher than 5?

Thanks

[JimKW]

I dont understand how to test the clorine (free, combined) b/c of the for 1 drop=0.2ppm, use 25ml and for 1 drop= 0.5ppm, use 10ml. Confused.

I am not a expert to help you with your overall problem, but I think I can explain the use of the test kit since I also had trouble understanding it at first.

1. On the large tube there are two markings, one for 10 ml and one for 25 ml. I use the 10 ml mark, so I fill with water from the tub to the 10 ml line, then I add two dippers of R-0870 and swirl until it disolves. If you have have free chlorine it will turn pink.

2. Now I add R-0871 and count drops until it turns clear.

3. Now I multiply the number of drops by 0.5 (had I used 25 ml it would be 0.2). This gives me my Free Chlorine reading. If I use 8 drops to make it clear my FC is 4.0 (8 * 0.5).

4. Now add 5 drops of R-0003 and see if it turns pink. If not, you have no combined Chlorine.

5. If it does, do the same thing with the R-0871 by drops until it turn clear and multiply by 0.5 again to get CC. Add CC and FC to get Total Chlorine.

One thing I might add is that outside of Clorox Bleach once I get my CYA up to around 50, I use only chemicals from the Hot Tub dealer. If my PH is off I use whatever they recommend to raise of lower. Same with Alkalinity and Hardness.

I shock my tub once a week and use an oz of Metal X at the same time I shock. When I first fill it I use four oz of Metal X and then adjust the PH, Alkalinity and Hardness levels as required. And I use the Chlorine with Dichlor until I get the CYA up to around 50 and then switch to bleach.

It does use quite a bit of Chlorine at first after a refill though. I just watch it every day until I get it right. I don't find it very difficult at all.

Hope this helps.

[ga_Kristy]

I dont understand how to test the clorine (free, combined) b/c of the for 1 drop=0.2ppm, use 25ml and for 1 drop= 0.5ppm, use 10ml. Confused.

I am not a expert to help you with your overall problem, but I think I can explain the use of the test kit since I also had trouble understanding it at first.

1. On the large tube there are two markings, one for 10 ml and one for 25 ml. I use the 10 ml mark, so I fill with water from the tub to the 10 ml line, then I add two dippers of R-0870 and swirl until it disolves. If you have have free chlorine it will turn pink.

2. Now I add R-0871 and count drops until it turns clear.

3. Now I multiply the number of drops by 0.5 (had I used 25 ml it would be 0.2). This gives me my Free Chlorine reading. If I use 8 drops to make it clear my FC is 4.0 (8 * 0.5).

4. Now add 5 drops of R-0003 and see if it turns pink. If not, you have no combined Chlorine.

5. If it does, do the same thing with the R-0871 by drops until it turn clear and multiply by 0.5 again to get CC. Add CC and FC to get Total Chlorine.

One thing I might add is that outside of Clorox Bleach once I get my CYA up to around 50, I use only chemicals from the Hot Tub dealer. If my PH is off I use whatever they recommend to raise of lower. Same with Alkalinity and Hardness.

I shock my tub once a week and use an oz of Metal X at the same time I shock. When I first fill it I use four oz of Metal X and then adjust the PH, Alkalinity and Hardness levels as required. And I use the Chlorine with Dichlor until I get the CYA up to around 50 and then switch to bleach.

It does use quite a bit of Chlorine at first after a refill though. I just watch it every day until I get it right. I don't find it very difficult at all.

Hope this helps.

Thank you, that was much more simple that I had tried to make it. I guess it was the only one that told me too pick which level to fill it to so I thought I was suppose to know something else. I tested, I had the exact example you had...lol 4.0 FC but just. 0.5 CC making it 4.5 TC. Is that right? What CC and TC do I want to have? Thanks again

[JimKW]

Ideally you want FC to be 3.0-4.0 and CC to be 0. If it's a little too high I just don't put any chlorine for a day or two at the most. A little low and I add a little extra. I don't find it difficult at all to keep my readings in the proper range.

Here are my readings today with ideal readings in ():

PPF FC (3.0-4.0) 6.5

PPM CC (0) 1.0

PPM TC (3.0-4.0) 7.5

PH (7.4-7.6) 7.5

Alkalinity (100-120) 100

Hardness (150-250) 175

CYA PPM (30-50) 45

As you can see, my chlorine is a little high, but it was a little low yesterday and I added a tad too much Clorox. I just won't add any after we use the tub tonight and see where it's at tomorrow and adjust accordingly.

By the way Alalinity and Hardness also has the option of 10 ml or 25 ml and I always use the 10 ml level. Then I just multiply drops by 25.