Hots Springs Moto Massage Seats

[Matthew B]

I have a 2005 Vanguard V with two Moto Massage seats and while both push water thru they dont seem to push any air and the 'massage' motion is gone. None f the lines look busted and I replaced the air lines this fall to both seats.

Any ideas on what to check or is this how the moto massage seats fail.

Also, has anyone on the forum replaced one, I would think that it is pretty easy.

[hottubdan]

I have a 2005 Vanguard V with two Moto Massage seats and while both push water thru they dont seem to push any air and the 'massage' motion is gone. None f the lines look busted and I replaced the air lines this fall to both seats.

Any ideas on what to check or is this how the moto massage seats fail.

Also, has anyone on the forum replaced one, I would think that it is pretty easy.

Make sure your filters are clean. If you have no debris in the water, try running without filters. If Moto Jets work, chemically clean or replace filters.

[grandee1]

The whole assembly needs replaced. If you remove them you will probably see the vertebrae are cracked or separated. My guess is that is your problem. They are about 100.00. Odd both would fail at the same time and being an 05 it seems a little soon. A lot depends on water chemistry on how long they last. My tub is an 01 and I replaced one last year and one this year.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

The whole assembly needs replaced. If you remove them you will probably see the vertebrae are cracked or separated. My guess is that is your problem. They are about 100.00. Odd both would fail at the same time and being an 05 it seems a little soon. A lot depends on water chemistry on how long they last. My tub is an 01 and I replaced one last year and one this year.

If they both went out at the same time that is odd which is why logic would then say to look at another source first, like the filters as was noted previously. I assume the air valves are in the on position.

[grandee1]

The whole assembly needs replaced. If you remove them you will probably see the vertebrae are cracked or separated. My guess is that is your problem. They are about 100.00. Odd both would fail at the same time and being an 05 it seems a little soon. A lot depends on water chemistry on how long they last. My tub is an 01 and I replaced one last year and one this year.

I do not see it being the filters. Not to mention, they are either on or off. The amount of air has nothing to do with their articulation. They sweep up and down once water is sent to them regardless of the aeration. Low water flow would be no different than tuning the pressure low and getting a slower sweeping motion. I still think they are cracked and will not sweep. If water is moving through them and they are not moving they need replaced.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

The whole assembly needs replaced. If you remove them you will probably see the vertebrae are cracked or separated. My guess is that is your problem. They are about 100.00. Odd both would fail at the same time and being an 05 it seems a little soon. A lot depends on water chemistry on how long they last. My tub is an 01 and I replaced one last year and one this year.

I do not see it being the filters. Not to mention, they are either on or off. The amount of air has nothing to do with their articulation. They sweep up and down once water is sent to them regardless of the aeration. Low water flow would be no different than tuning the pressure low and getting a slower sweeping motion. I still think they are cracked and will not sweep. If water is moving through them and they are not moving they need replaced.

The filters are unquestionably a possibility, maybe not probable but certainly possible. Each type oif jet has a certain amoount of water flow that must be present for that individual jet to draw air. If that water flow falls below a certain threshold the jet will not draw air. Therefore the other jets can still be drawing air while these jets don't because the others may still be above their indivual threshold. Its just wise to remove the filters to se what effect that has, first step for sure even if its a 15% chance.

[Matthew B]

Still working ont his one guys and gals. I removed the filters since after running them through the dishwasher they still look a bit ratty. Not sure if the Tri-X filters are worth the cost since they can't be lifetime since the ones in my space are less than 5 to and they look pretty bad.

ANyway, back to the moto massage seats. Filters removed and still no action at all. Can I assume the motomassage seat is just bad. I want to check the air valves next, but not sure how they are removed. Do you just pop the levers off and unbolt it. The manual and part break out dont tell me much.

[Dan.The.Spa.Man]

The whole assembly needs replaced. If you remove them you will probably see the vertebrae are cracked or separated. My guess is that is your problem. They are about 100.00. Odd both would fail at the same time and being an 05 it seems a little soon. A lot depends on water chemistry on how long they last. My tub is an 01 and I replaced one last year and one this year.

I do not see it being the filters. Not to mention, they are either on or off. The amount of air has nothing to do with their articulation. They sweep up and down once water is sent to them regardless of the aeration. Low water flow would be no different than tuning the pressure low and getting a slower sweeping motion. I still think they are cracked and will not sweep. If water is moving through them and they are not moving they need replaced.

How does the air have "nothing to do with their articulation"? The levers that allow the jets to sweep up and down are AIR levers. When they are turned off they kill the air supply and the jets stop going up and down. When the air levers are open the jets go up and down.

With that said....98% chance that the moto-jets themselves just need to be replaced. 5-6 years is not a bad life for them. The life varies greatly with chemical usage.

[Dan.The.Spa.Man]

As far as the air valve removal...I think the '05 models still had the removeable valve stem. It can be hard to remove/re-install. If I can remember correctly, if you are standing outside of the tub:

1. Turn the air valve to the right.

2. Push down hard and turn the valve to the left.

3. It should then pull up out of the valve body.

On some you have to push down very hard to get it to come out, and push down very hard when putting it back in.

The problem you are looking for is a little hard to describe:

Once it is out, the only thing that would be a problem is if the inner rubber lining is turning while the valve is being turned. You should be able to hold the bottom of the valve and turn the top. The open "window" should open and be closed off with each turn. If the inner rubber sleeve is turning sporadically with the lever, then it is bad. (you would see the rubber lining blocking off the opening when it should be open)

It's most likely the moto-jet though