94 Hs Soverigh Not Heating Past 94 Deg

[Sailing_Faith]

Ok,

I have been happily soaking in my HS Sovereign for a couple of years now. I poured a new slab for it, and moved it (closer to the bedroom). It is in a nice place, it is elevated where I can watch my heard of goats while I soak... (they are quite green with envy, they can not get in).

So I moved the tub, filled it up, and it has a leak. The weird thing is that the leak only happens when the spa is full more then half way up the tile line... (so it is not much of an issue)...

What IS an issue is that the heater comes on, and will run for as long as it takes to reach 90-94 deg. Now my spa will normally run as high as 112, I like it at 106-108 in the winter, and around 102 in the summer.

I can turn the dial down, and it will cool, and then the heater will come on to warm it up to 84... but turning it all the way up only gets to 90 to 94.... it is like the thermostat has lost it's calibration.

THe relay seems to click, and the heater heats... it seems to be in the control section.

ANy suggestions?

[Sailing_Faith]

Ok,

So now the spa is not heating at all. The strangeness continues though. The heater has 3 pins, two round (like the ground on a regular 110v plug) and one flat. I have tired to read resistance and can find nothing on any combination of pins.... so the heater element is bad right?

But wait a minute... I also tried to read the voltage coming from the the plug the heater plugs into (on the control box). I moved the thermostat up and down, and can hear the relay clicking but get no voltage on the plug side... ????

I am wondering if the control box has a provision to cut the power when the heater reads open? What resistance would I normally read on a HS 115v heater? I would expect it to be a normal resistive load of somewhere around 200 ohms...

[Sailing_Faith]

Ok,

The plot thickens.

PLEASE help if you have any clues for me... I am without a schematic here and would appreciate any help.

First, the heater core was reading open between the two round pins. So, that was bad, and has been replaced.

However, upon replacement... still no heat.

I opened the control box, and located the heater control relay. I could hear it click as I turned the thermostat so I ASSumed it was bad an

purchased a replacement from my local dealer.

I replaced the relay... still no heat.

Here is what I know.

The diode across the coil of the heater reads the same in both forward and reverse bias.. but it is an anti-chatter diode anyway so I am not too concerned..

Any suggestions?

[Spa_Guru]

Any suggestions?

Two tests are all you need, first of all, test the voltage across the heater element leads, they should read 220v if you are set up 220, or 110v if you are set up 110, secondly, check amperage draw with either an amp meter or having someone click the heater on and watch the dial on your house electrical meter for a sudden increase in speed. In most homes, a 5.5 kw heater will make a meter wheel kick around in about 5-1/2 seconds, significantly slower when the heater is off.

Volts but no amps = bad element

No volts = control system issue, such as a hi limit.

[Sailing_Faith]

Any suggestions?

Two tests are all you need, first of all, test the voltage across the heater element leads, they should read 220v if you are set up 220, or 110v if you are set up 110, secondly, check amperage draw with either an amp meter or having someone click the heater on and watch the dial on your house electrical meter for a sudden increase in speed. In most homes, a 5.5 kw heater will make a meter wheel kick around in about 5-1/2 seconds, significantly slower when the heater is off.

Volts but no amps = bad element

No volts = control system issue, such as a hi limit.

Thanks, but as I said above. I have already changed the element.... and the control relay. I am trying to troubleshoot the rest of the control circuit.

I appreciate any help.

[Dan.The.Spa.Man]

You said that the thermostat does make a clicking sound like the relay is pulling in. Does it click at the same spot as you are turning the dial up and down or is it intermittent and sporadic? Not much that goes wrong in those old tubs other than the heater and thermostat.

Do you get voltage at the plug in for the heater when the relay clicks in?

Also, may need to see some pictures of the goats before I can help you! lol

[ed3553]

You said that the thermostat does make a clicking sound like the relay is pulling in. Does it click at the same spot as you are turning the dial up and down or is it intermittent and sporadic? Not much that goes wrong in those old tubs other than the heater and thermostat.

Do you get voltage at the plug in for the heater when the relay clicks in?

Also, may need to see some pictures of the goats before I can help you! lol

You stat you here the relay opening and closing. Verify correct voltage to the coil with the thermostat engaged, the relay you should be testing is the on the heater plug is connected to. the voltage should be 12 VDC. If this is correct test terminals 4 and 8 you should have 110 VAC. If you do not have voltage here follow the hot wire (purple) back to the K1 relay this relay has the circ pump plug attached to it. The purple wire is piggy backed on to it to provide power to the heater relay. If voltage exist between teminals 4 and 8 test terminals 2 and 6 you should have 110 VAC with the tstat engaged.

With this information you should be able to determine your problem.

[Sailing_Faith]

I am not getting 12vdc to the coil of the heater control relay.

I am getting an occasional relay click when I sweep the thermostat through the bottom end of it's range... but if there is voltage to the coil it is coming on and back off faster then the meter can respond to.

I know the circ pump rely is getting energized, the circ pump is running. It appears to me that the circ pump relay is wired to interupt the ground to the heater... is suspect this is the way the heater is disconnected when the main pump runs. (115v system, IIRC the heater drops off when the pump runs).

This leaves me thinking the control board is bad (the no 12vdc output)... but I can not figure out what is making the relay click... I sure hate to continue changing parts like this.

Any tips from here?

[Sailing_Faith]

Also, may need to see some pictures of the goats before I can help you! lol

We have had a couple of nannies overdue for delivery for a while. Our 'Oreo' was raising a fuss so I went to see what was going on.

She had two (typical for a Nannie goat). Here are some pictures of them, just minutes old.

Here is a video of momma cleaning them up;

Here is 'tootsie' taking her first drink;

Here they are both standing... only 5 minutes or so old! You can see 'Taffy' hamming it up for the camera.

Here is the proud papa;

http://bibleforums.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=8138&d=1256709068

[ed3553]

I am not getting 12vdc to the coil of the heater control relay.

I am getting an occasional relay click when I sweep the thermostat through the bottom end of it's range... but if there is voltage to the coil it is coming on and back off faster then the meter can respond to.

I know the circ pump rely is getting energized, the circ pump is running. It appears to me that the circ pump relay is wired to interupt the ground to the heater... is suspect this is the way the heater is disconnected when the main pump runs. (115v system, IIRC the heater drops off when the pump runs).

This leaves me thinking the control board is bad (the no 12vdc output)... but I can not figure out what is making the relay click... I sure hate to continue changing parts like this.

Any tips from here?

The only way for that relay to click is for that coil to get 12 VDC now it could be happening intermittently. On the tstat knob turn it all the way off. Then rotate it to all the way up and all the way down. While doing this verify where it is kicking on and off. Keeping rotating it like this about 5 - 6 times. It should always kick on in the same spot and always kick off in the same spot. It sounds to me like the tsat is acting up. 1994 HS spas did have a problem with mechanical tstats. Does your spa have a mechanical or electronic tstat?

[Sailing_Faith]

I am not getting 12vdc to the coil of the heater control relay.

I am getting an occasional relay click when I sweep the thermostat through the bottom end of it's range... but if there is voltage to the coil it is coming on and back off faster then the meter can respond to.

I know the circ pump rely is getting energized, the circ pump is running. It appears to me that the circ pump relay is wired to interupt the ground to the heater... is suspect this is the way the heater is disconnected when the main pump runs. (115v system, IIRC the heater drops off when the pump runs).

This leaves me thinking the control board is bad (the no 12vdc output)... but I can not figure out what is making the relay click... I sure hate to continue changing parts like this.

Any tips from here?

The only way for that relay to click is for that coil to get 12 VDC now it could be happening intermittently. On the tstat knob turn it all the way off. Then rotate it to all the way up and all the way down. While doing this verify where it is kicking on and off. Keeping rotating it like this about 5 - 6 times. It should always kick on in the same spot and always kick off in the same spot. It sounds to me like the tsat is acting up. 1994 HS spas did have a problem with mechanical tstats. Does your spa have a mechanical or electronic tstat?

It has two push on connectors on top. It has a regular bare copper wire that leads to a bulb that slides into the heater... not sure what you are asking for...

I did try to read the connector on the t-stat to ground and got 0vdc... but then if it is shorted to ground I guess that is what I would get.

Funny you mention the issue of it clicking in the same place every time. It seems to click near the bottom of the range, (h2o temp is currently 70f).. the thing is if I sweep it several times, it may only click once every few sweeps... but it seems to happen at the same point when it does.

[Sailing_Faith]

I am not getting 12vdc to the coil of the heater control relay.

I am getting an occasional relay click when I sweep the thermostat through the bottom end of it's range... but if there is voltage to the coil it is coming on and back off faster then the meter can respond to.

I know the circ pump rely is getting energized, the circ pump is running. It appears to me that the circ pump relay is wired to interupt the ground to the heater... is suspect this is the way the heater is disconnected when the main pump runs. (115v system, IIRC the heater drops off when the pump runs).

This leaves me thinking the control board is bad (the no 12vdc output)... but I can not figure out what is making the relay click... I sure hate to continue changing parts like this.

Any tips from here?

The only way for that relay to click is for that coil to get 12 VDC now it could be happening intermittently. On the tstat knob turn it all the way off. Then rotate it to all the way up and all the way down. While doing this verify where it is kicking on and off. Keeping rotating it like this about 5 - 6 times. It should always kick on in the same spot and always kick off in the same spot. It sounds to me like the tsat is acting up. 1994 HS spas did have a problem with mechanical tstats. Does your spa have a mechanical or electronic tstat?

It has two push on connectors on top. It has a regular bare copper wire that leads to a bulb that slides into the heater... not sure what you are asking for...

I did try to read the connector on the t-stat to ground and got 0vdc... but then if it is shorted to ground I guess that is what I would get.

Funny you mention the issue of it clicking in the same place every time. It seems to click near the bottom of the range, (h2o temp is currently 70f).. the thing is if I sweep it several times, it may only click once every few sweeps... but it seems to happen at the same point when it does.

Should I be able to read 12vdc on the input to the t-stat from the control board? Is the DC ground common with the chassis (ac) ground?

(on edit)

Ok, I answered this question... I know they would not use the chassis as the DC ground. I just put the meter across the two terminals on top of the t-stat and guess what? I read 17v (control voltage).

So I sweep it through the range a few times and find the voltage drops momentarily for a click... but never goes to 0v as it would if the t-stat were turning on.

So... looks like a t-stat to me now. Do you agree?

[ed3553]

I am not getting 12vdc to the coil of the heater control relay.

I am getting an occasional relay click when I sweep the thermostat through the bottom end of it's range... but if there is voltage to the coil it is coming on and back off faster then the meter can respond to.

I know the circ pump rely is getting energized, the circ pump is running. It appears to me that the circ pump relay is wired to interupt the ground to the heater... is suspect this is the way the heater is disconnected when the main pump runs. (115v system, IIRC the heater drops off when the pump runs).

This leaves me thinking the control board is bad (the no 12vdc output)... but I can not figure out what is making the relay click... I sure hate to continue changing parts like this.

Any tips from here?

The only way for that relay to click is for that coil to get 12 VDC now it could be happening intermittently. On the tstat knob turn it all the way off. Then rotate it to all the way up and all the way down. While doing this verify where it is kicking on and off. Keeping rotating it like this about 5 - 6 times. It should always kick on in the same spot and always kick off in the same spot. It sounds to me like the tsat is acting up. 1994 HS spas did have a problem with mechanical tstats. Does your spa have a mechanical or electronic tstat?

It has two push on connectors on top. It has a regular bare copper wire that leads to a bulb that slides into the heater... not sure what you are asking for...

I did try to read the connector on the t-stat to ground and got 0vdc... but then if it is shorted to ground I guess that is what I would get.

Funny you mention the issue of it clicking in the same place every time. It seems to click near the bottom of the range, (h2o temp is currently 70f).. the thing is if I sweep it several times, it may only click once every few sweeps... but it seems to happen at the same point when it does.

Should I be able to read 12vdc on the input to the t-stat from the control board? Is the DC ground common with the chassis (ac) ground?

(on edit)

Ok, I answered this question... I know they would not use the chassis as the DC ground. I just put the meter across the two terminals on top of the t-stat and guess what? I read 17v (control voltage).

So I sweep it through the range a few times and find the voltage drops momentarily for a click... but never goes to 0v as it would if the t-stat were turning on.

So... looks like a t-stat to me now. Do you agree?

Yes t-stat is your prob. When the tstat closes you should have 0 VDC. The mech tstats had a prob in 94 as I mentioned. when you did the sweeping motion with the tstat and noticed it did not click everytime that is due to a faulty tstat.

[Sailing_Faith]

Yes t-stat is your prob. When the tstat closes you should have 0 VDC. The mech tstats had a prob in 94 as I mentioned. when you did the sweeping motion with the tstat and noticed it did not click everytime that is due to a faulty tstat.

Ok, THANKS to all who helped me!

Next question... it looks like HS has replaced this stat with a 'thermostat kit' that is $100! Now I understand some had problems that lead to this, but mine has worked sing 94 (pretty low failure rate).

Can I use another 'mechanical' thermostat (for $26) or do I NEED to $100 conversion kit?

[ed3553]

Yes t-stat is your prob. When the tstat closes you should have 0 VDC. The mech tstats had a prob in 94 as I mentioned. when you did the sweeping motion with the tstat and noticed it did not click everytime that is due to a faulty tstat.

Ok, THANKS to all who helped me!

Next question... it looks like HS has replaced this stat with a 'thermostat kit' that is $100! Now I understand some had problems that lead to this, but mine has worked sing 94 (pretty low failure rate).

Can I use another 'mechanical' thermostat (for $26) or do I NEED to $100 conversion kit?

You can use a mechanical one as long as the bulb is the same size. The electronic one is just more accurate. But the mechanical one will more than likely last you longer than u need.

[Sailing_Faith]

BTW,

Just for the sake of any who may search and find this thread in the future.

The mechanical T-stat on the 94 HS tubs was replaced by a kit with a small circuit board and a thermistor (like the newer spas have).

The reason for the switch is the copper wire from the Mechanical T-stat was routed right next to the terminals on the heater relay... and could easily

short out.

HS no longer lists the part number for the original Watkins mechanical T-stat. I purchased the one for a 96 HS Classic... it is nearly the same..