Pool Help.

[speedjunkie]

Ok, I had the pool nice and sparkling prior to a bunch of rain. I couldn't get out and check it for a few days due to a knee injury. So, when I did get to it, it was VERY cloudy. I bought a bunch of bleach, and shocked it. My FC would drop to 0 within an hour. I shocked it again, same result. And again, same result. I've dumped in, IIRC, 20 large jugs, and 26 small jugs in the last 48 hours, and it's still near 0. My pH is also really low.

Last time I had it checked at the pool store the CYA was 80, everything else was ok. I know the Ca is high, but I live in the boonies and have well water. It's always been that high. The TC wasn't that high until I started dumping in gallons of bleach at a time.

I did test the occasional jug of bleach, and it always came in around 6%. The ammonia was at .5 yesterday when I checked it.

Anyway, here's the specifics from the last test done at the local PS.

19000 gallon IG vinyl pool

FC=0.5

TC=2

pH=6.8

TA=135

Ca=400

CYA=0?

Yesterday, I couldn't see the bottom of the pool on the shallow end, at least today, I can. It's improving, but too slowly. I need to do an overnight demand test, but I'm too low on DPD/FAS powder to complete one. The PS said they could do one as well.

At this point, they are recommending to triple shock with Lithium every 3 hours until it holds a minimum of 3ppm FC for 24 hours. They also said that my CYA is 0 because it's being masked by the FC demand. Their sheet says to add balance pak to boost the pH, but I told them I didn't want just yet if it would boost the TA as well. They said it wouldn't, but I didn't look at the ingredients, but I suspect it would.

Help?! I will take another sample to town this PM and let the PS do the overnight drop test. But, do I buy the Lithium? Or more bleach? I've already pretty much cleaned one Walmart out of bleach in the last 2 days! People are starting to look at me funny!

Thanks in advance!

Mike

[quantumchromodynamics]

It looks like bacteria have converted your cyanuric acid to ammonia. You need to shock with bleach until this clears up and then add the cyanuric acid back to normal level. Raise the FC to between 10 and 15 ppm. You will know when you're done shocking when you pool loses 1.0 ppm or less of FC overnight and the CC is 0.5 or less. With no cyanuric acid, the FC will be eaten up by sunlight, so you should expect such loss.

You could use Borax to raise your pH with less of a rise in TA, or you could aerate to raise the pH with no rise in TA. You can use ThePoolCalculator to see how much Borax to use if you want to raise your pH.

Right now, I wouldn't be too concerned about the pH unless you have a heater. With a TA of 135 and the use of bleach, the pH should rise anyway. Why is the pH so low? Are you using trichlor tabs to chlorinate?

[speedjunkie]

Forgot to add that I've been aeriating since Saturday. The chlorine has always been added at night, then checked again in the morning before the sun hits it, and it's dead. I mentioned the CYA being converted, and the PS folks looked at me like I was from another planet!

The pH could be low due to trichlor tabs. I've probably used 12 total since I opened the pool in May, but I aeriate everytime we are in the pool, which was pretty regular for the entire month of June, so it shouldn't be low from that, but what do I know. I'm the one with the jacked up pool!

Mike

[quantumchromodynamics]

How long has your pH been low like this? Is this something new? What are you using for chlorine? Are you using dichlor?

Shock it up to 15 ppm with bleach tonight and retest in the morning.

If your pH is persistently low then I recommend that you add some baking soda to raise the TA. If the pH is constantly going too high, then your TA is too high. If your pH is constantly going too low, then your TA is too low. Your TA is just right when your pH stays in the target range.

Once you kill off the bacteria, you will want to start getting some cyanuric acid back in the water.

[speedjunkie]

I don't honestly know how long the pH has been low. It was fine a couple weeks ago. I have been using bleach exclusively save for a few tabs here and there, since last year when I converted over to the BBB method.

We had lots of rain the past couple weeks, and with the knee, the rain, and work, I wasn't able to check it. Of course, it wasn't being used either, so it unfortuntely slipped.

I'm honestly afraid to shock it again. I'm sure it needs it, but I'm exhausted, as well as my check book. I've shocked it SOOOO much in the last 48 hours, and have made very little progress. Not to mention, I'll have to find another Walmart!

Mike

[quantumchromodynamics]

In your first post, you noted some improvement. If you maintain shock level, you should be able to clear this fairly quickly. If you don't maintain shock level, this will quickly get much worse.

You can get bleach at your nearby supermarket.

[speedjunkie]

I'll give it another dose tonight. If it storms, should I hit it a bit harder?

Thanks for the help!

Mike

[quantumchromodynamics]

Determine the amount to add based on your test results. Maintain 15 ppm until the water clears.

[speedjunkie]

Ok, I hit a tiny bit hardere last night. Per the Pool Calc, should have been about 18ppm. This AM, this is what I had, and the water is clearer yet. I can now see the MD. I think we're getting closer!

FC=2

CC=>1

pH=7.0-7.2

Mike

[quantumchromodynamics]

Very good. Maintain at least 10 ppm until your overnight FC loss is 1.0 ppm or less and your CC is 0.5 or less. Retest your Cyanuric acid and begin to bring it back up to the correct level.

[speedjunkie]

Ok, I shocked again last night to about 18. 3 hours later, still 12. At 0600 this AM, it was 4.5.

Tonight when I got home:

FC=0

CC=.5

pH=7.2 to 7.4

CYA=0, or at least well below the minimum readable level of 30.

So, I shocked it again to 11, and put 6 tabs in the floater right in the skimmer inlet. Hope it helps with the CYA and the FC, while not killing the pH in the process.

With working 12 hr days, and leaving at 0630, and not getting home till usuall 2000, it's pretty difficult to play very late with the pool!

How often do I need to check it and maintain the FC of 10?

Thanks!

Mike

[quantumchromodynamics]

You're still getting too much overnight FC loss. Maintain 10 ppm until the overnight FC loss is 1.0 ppm or less, and your CC is less than or equal to 0.5 ppm. Your CC is equal to 0.5, however, it is also your TC, so we don't know how high it might be if you had more chlorine in the water.

You're losing too much FC to sunlight because you don't have any cyanuric acid. You should buy some cyanuric acid and add it. I recommend a level of 40 to 60 ppm.

You might want to consider getting a gallon of

Natural Chemistry's Instant Pool Water Conditioner.

It's more expensive, but it is quick and more pH neutral than the cyanuric acid. A gallon will give you 20 ppm, which is where the sun protection starts to become significant. You can add the rest with regular cyanuric acid.

You might want to consider getting a SWG to minimize the amount of work you need to do.

[speedjunkie]

This morning.

FC=5.0

CC=>.5

I'll look for a liquid conditioner today when I get off work. Should I shock it again this AM? Or wait until tonight? I don't want the sun completely eating all my FC that I just put in either. Should I put the pool cover back on to help during the day, the remove at night while it's shocked and offgasing?

Mike

[quantumchromodynamics]

Maintain at least 10 ppm until your water is fully clear, the overnight FC loss is 1.0 ppm or less, and your CC is less than or equal to 0.5 ppm.

Now that your pH has come up a bit, you can use dichlor a few times to chlorinate. Dichlor contains a lot of cyanuric acid, which will help. Once you get at least 30 ppm of cyanuric acid, your day and night losses should be reduced significantly.

You could use a cover during the day to reduce FC loss due to sunlight while your cyanuric acid is low, and take it off at night to allow it a better chance to off-gas carbon dioxide and any gases related to shocking.

Boost it back up to 10 ppm this morning. Late today, boost it back up to 10 ppm. After an hour or so, measure the FC with your FAS-DPD test. Measure again in the morning to see how much overnight loss there is.

You should also make sure to keep up on routine maintenance. Vacuuming, brushing, cleaning skimmer and pump baskets, cleaning the filter etc. would help to ensure optimum performance.

As your cyanuric acid level rises, you should increase your shock range accordingly. Increase the FC by 1 ppm for every 10 ppm of cyanuric acid. Shock =10 ppm + 10% of cyanuric acid.

[speedjunkie]

Thanks again! It looks a little clearer again tonight. I try to keep on routine MX. Skimmer gets cleaned/checked daily. Filter gets back flushed 1x every week or two, depending on pressure. Pool sweep does a really good job of keeping the pool stired up and the bottom clear. Hard part is usually keeping frogs, toads, moles, mice, etc out of the pool! We live in the country, so it can get interesting!

FC=.5

CC=.5

pH=7.6

CYA=0?

I suspect part of the pH is due to the lithium shock, as it's pretty high on pH. I'll get some dichlor tomorrow and use it to boost the CYA. I'll also have momma take a sample to the PS and have them check the CYA, just to double check.

Mike