Sundance Optima Or Artesian Piper Glen

[violinfather]

I am trying to decide which hot tub to buy. I previously owned a Sundance Cameo so I am very partial to the Sundance brand. I want to buy a spa which has the most therapeutic ability. Plus my wife MUST have a spa that has some serious foot massage. Unfortunately where I live in Canada I cannot wet test either model so I need to buy them without the benefit of a true test. Potentially I could wet test the Sundance if I pushed a little harder as they want to sell me their floor model but don't want to fill it with water.

The cost for the tubs are approximately the same at $10800.

Any opinions on either of these hot tubs or any other manufacturers that I should consider would be great.

Thanks

[JimKW]

I just bought a used Sundance Optima and had it set up last week. I really wanted one with a lounger, but the price on the Optima was too good to pass up. My wife and I did wet test it and liked the feel quite a bit. We really like the hump in the middle with jets hitting your feet from anywhere you sit.

I was doing some work on the paving stone patio, and I'm not a young man, which means I got pretty sore after bending over and working on my hands and knees for hours. Well I got in the Hot Tub for about 1/2 hour and moved from seat to seat massaging different parts of my back. When I got out the pain was gone. About 9 o'clock that night I started getting sore again so I climbed back into the tub for another half hour and felt fine.

Mine is a 2003 model, but pretty sure the layout is about the same.

[gman]

Violinfather,

I recently bought a 2009 Sundance Optima and my wife and I and our guests love it. In our search for our hot tub, we wet tested several manufacturers and models, including the Artesian Piper Glen. There were a few significant differences between the Sundance Optima and the Artesian Piper Glen that swayed us to the Sundance tub.

1. The foot jet configuration in the 2009 Optima was much better than the Piper Glen. The Piper Glen has a "dome-shaped" jet console in the footwell and the 2009 Optima has a flat-topped foot jet console. The difference is significant in that you can step on the top of the Optima foot jet console without angling your foot, twisting your ankle, or losing your balance. The Optima console is raised, but only about 1.5". The Optima includes 8 foot jets (two per each corner seat). The Piper Glen "dome-shaped" foot jet console is large and you can't step on top of the dome. Therefore, moving from seat-to-seat in the Piper Glen was more difficult from a safety perspective. The dome is about 5" high (guessing from memory...perhaps more) and only contained 4 jets (one per corner seat). In the Optima, I liked having a foot jet for each foot simultaneously and I did not like trying to maneuver around a large obstacle in the footwell of the Piper Glen.

Now, this difference may not exist if the Sundance Optima floor model you are considering is 2008 or earlier. The 2008 Optima has a "dome-shaped" foot jet console, similar to the Piper Glen. The "flat-topped" console was a design change in the Optima in the 2009 model year.

2. The Artesian Piper Glen was much noisier than the Sundance Optima. I'm sure this was in part due to the fact that the Artesian tubs have more pumps than most other tub manufacturers (one pump each essentially designated for each corner seat). I suspect the additional pumps limit the amount of sound insulation that Artesian can put in the tub. I initially thought that having more pumps would provide a lot of flexibility and power when using the tub. However, I found the strength of the hydrotherapy in all the other manufacturers I wet tested, who had fewer pumps, was sufficient for my water therapy needs. They all tended to be significantly quieter. For me, the negative from the increased noise level far outweighed the benefits of the added pumps. Additionally, the more pumps also mean more expense and more things to break down.

3. The corner seats in the Piper Glen were all very deep. My wife is considerably shorter than I and she was severely limited in her seat options because too many seats were too deep for her to soak comfortably (at least without a bolster seat or cushion, which she did not want to use). This may not be an issue for you, but since you cannot wet test the tubs, it may be something for you to consider. $10K is a lot of money to spend only to find out you, your spouse, significant other, etc., can use only part of the tub.

These were just some of the issues that helped me make my decision between the two tubs you mentioned. As you probably know from this forum, both manufacturers make quality tubs and are routinely recommended. Of course, you should wet test before you buy, but I understand that may not be possible.

Keep in mind, this advise is worth exactly what you paid for it.

Good luck in your decision-making.

gman

[Want To Soak Tom]

Looks like you got two great models there. Wish I could spend that amount. I got a 780 series Sundance. Delivery in 8 days (I hope)

I so recommend you wet test if you can.

My wife and I were all set on a Bullfrog. It was a done deal, she was happy, wanted it, didn't want to wet test.

But I made us do it because of the suggestions on the board. Thank you board!

We found that it did not fit us as we thought it would. Something was off. So we passed. Now if they had not let us wet test, I would of probably just bought it because at the time we knew it was the one. Alas it was not.

So Wet test is a must if at all possible. You are spending a lot of money, if they are not willing, think real hard on what they will do for you if you have problems.....

But comparing the models (going to focus on items I see different, please note I am a newbie so hope these are valid comparisons) and the comments are only mine based on what is important to me which could be completely different from you.

Warranty: Pretty close.

Artesian has lifetime structure warranty. Sundance has 10 year Shell.

Sundance has longer warranty for sides. 5 vs 2

Everything else seems the same.

Winner? I guess I am even on this.

Size:

Artesian is 3 inches larger on length and width. The Sundance is 1/2 inch deeper.

Winner: Artesian. I found that 4 inches on some tubs we were comparing made a difference. My tub 92X92X36

Jets:

Artesian 67

Sundance 47

Winner: No clue. 47 jets w/ more power better than 67 weaker jets. Also depends on the jets. Ones that poke you are not good. You need to talk to people who have these jets. Also, I love that my jets can be dialed down at the jet. So if one doesn't and the other does, then the one that does wins for me. Especially for systems where single speed pumps.

Pumps:

Artesian 5 (five) 3 BHP pumps (seriously 5? )

Sundance 2 (two) 5.1 BHP pumps

5 pumps must use alot of power.. wow.

Winner: No clue. I wonder if 5 pumps are overkill to be honest and worry about the power. Can you run them all and the heater? only 2? what?

Lighting

Sundance: Included

Artesian: Optional

Winner: I like the lights, so if your pricing doesn't include the lights in the Artesian the Sundance wins

Waterfall

Sundance 1 waterfall

Artesian 2 pillowfall. AquaSerene

Winner: hmph. I would have to feel the pillowfall to see if I would like. I am leaning away from it just because of temp issues.

Air:

Sundance has air pump and aromatherapy

Artesian: Could not find a reference

Winner: Same price, I would go with some air. Some people like it, some do not.

Ozone:

Artesian: Included

Sundance: Optional

Winner: Artesian. But if included in Sundance then equal.

Dealer

Which dealer do you trust more? They win this category.

I do not know who I would go with. Both seem awesome. I would add lights to the Artesian if you get it, I would add Ozone to the Sundance if you get it.

I think I would really look into the size difference and see if those 3 inches matter? The Sundance holds more water than the Artesian even though it is smaller so could feel bigger.

Good luck in your decision.

Really really push for wet test.

[JimKW]

I wet tested another Sundance model (can't remember the name right now), was really there to buy it and after wet testing did not buy it cause of the jets on the lounge seat hitting my calves so hard it pushed my legs out of the water. And they were either on or off, not adjustable. I would have hated to find that out once I got it home. Felt very weird I have to admit when my wife and I changed our clothes in somebody's bathroom to wet test the one we bought, but we did.

[violinfather]

Violinfather,

I recently bought a 2009 Sundance Optima and my wife and I and our guests love it. In our search for our hot tub, we wet tested several manufacturers and models, including the Artesian Piper Glen. There were a few significant differences between the Sundance Optima and the Artesian Piper Glen that swayed us to the Sundance tub.

1. The foot jet configuration in the 2009 Optima was much better than the Piper Glen. The Piper Glen has a "dome-shaped" jet console in the footwell and the 2009 Optima has a flat-topped foot jet console. The difference is significant in that you can step on the top of the Optima foot jet console without angling your foot, twisting your ankle, or losing your balance. The Optima console is raised, but only about 1.5". The Optima includes 8 foot jets (two per each corner seat). The Piper Glen "dome-shaped" foot jet console is large and you can't step on top of the dome. Therefore, moving from seat-to-seat in the Piper Glen was more difficult from a safety perspective. The dome is about 5" high (guessing from memory...perhaps more) and only contained 4 jets (one per corner seat). In the Optima, I liked having a foot jet for each foot simultaneously and I did not like trying to maneuver around a large obstacle in the footwell of the Piper Glen.

Now, this difference may not exist if the Sundance Optima floor model you are considering is 2008 or earlier. The 2008 Optima has a "dome-shaped" foot jet console, similar to the Piper Glen. The "flat-topped" console was a design change in the Optima in the 2009 model year.

2. The Artesian Piper Glen was much noisier than the Sundance Optima. I'm sure this was in part due to the fact that the Artesian tubs have more pumps than most other tub manufacturers (one pump each essentially designated for each corner seat). I suspect the additional pumps limit the amount of sound insulation that Artesian can put in the tub. I initially thought that having more pumps would provide a lot of flexibility and power when using the tub. However, I found the strength of the hydrotherapy in all the other manufacturers I wet tested, who had fewer pumps, was sufficient for my water therapy needs. They all tended to be significantly quieter. For me, the negative from the increased noise level far outweighed the benefits of the added pumps. Additionally, the more pumps also mean more expense and more things to break down.

3. The corner seats in the Piper Glen were all very deep. My wife is considerably shorter than I and she was severely limited in her seat options because too many seats were too deep for her to soak comfortably (at least without a bolster seat or cushion, which she did not want to use). This may not be an issue for you, but since you cannot wet test the tubs, it may be something for you to consider. $10K is a lot of money to spend only to find out you, your spouse, significant other, etc., can use only part of the tub.

These were just some of the issues that helped me make my decision between the two tubs you mentioned. As you probably know from this forum, both manufacturers make quality tubs and are routinely recommended. Of course, you should wet test before you buy, but I understand that may not be possible.

Keep in mind, this advise is worth exactly what you paid for it.

Good luck in your decision-making.

gman

gman

Thanks so much for the comparison as it really helps hearing your perspective.

Can you tell me what the neck jets are like as my daughter often has a sore neck from to much violin playing :-) I am tempted to check out the D1 Amore Bay as I like the design of their neck jets in the pillows. I did check the Artesian Island series and we liked the corner jet where the neck jet has a collar and your shoulders are held snugly under an overhang. Seems like a good idea however the jets were not very powerful.

[violinfather]

Good luck in your decision.

Really really push for wet test.

Want To Soak Tom,

I agree 100% that a wet test is necessary. Tonight we tried three tubs at the dealer who has the Piper Glen for sale. That is the only way to determine if the jets and seating configurations actually work for each member of the family. I am going to push for a wet test on the Optima otherwise I will probably not buy it.

[Zirgalmnod]

Dear Violinfather,

I went the same match, choosing between Sundance and Artesian (Cameo and Dove Canyon, since I wanted a lounger). My choice was Artesian, but it was close. A friend of mine has the Cameo, so I have had several opportuinties to direct cross compair, and I am totally happy with my choice (although my friend is happy with his). The main reasons for me choosing Artesian before Sundance were:

- individual pumps for each seat

- individual control for each seat ("What happened to my massage?")

- superior (IMHO) massage, more powerful

- lower noise level for Artesian (especially irritating valve noise from Sundance due to diverters, which there are none of in Artesian)

- more water filtered per hour + better filter capacity (area)

- better LED light option (I use it all the time)

- easy (one button) on/off switch for airmix / non airmix in jets

- slightly bigger

Either way you choose to go you won´t be dissapointed, those are two great HTs. Good Luck!

/Zirgalmnod

[Zirgalmnod]

Dear Violinfather,

I went the same match, choosing between Sundance and Artesian (Cameo and Dove Canyon, since I wanted a lounger). My choice was Artesian, but it was close. A friend of mine has the Cameo, so I have had several opportuinties to direct cross compair, and I am totally happy with my choice (although my friend is happy with his). The main reasons for me choosing Artesian before Sundance were:

- individual pumps for each seat

- individual control for each seat ("What happened to my massage?")

- superior (IMHO) massage, more powerful

- lower noise level for Artesian (especially irritating valve noise from Sundance due to diverters, which there are none of in Artesian)

- more water filtered per hour + better filter capacity (area)

- better LED light option (I use it all the time)

- easy (one button) on/off switch for airmix / non airmix in jets

- slightly bigger

Whichever way you choose to go you won´t be dissapointed, those are two great HTs. Good Luck!

/Zirgalmnod

[gman]

Violinfather,

I recently bought a 2009 Sundance Optima and my wife and I and our guests love it. In our search for our hot tub, we wet tested several manufacturers and models, including the Artesian Piper Glen. There were a few significant differences between the Sundance Optima and the Artesian Piper Glen that swayed us to the Sundance tub.

1. The foot jet configuration in the 2009 Optima was much better than the Piper Glen. The Piper Glen has a "dome-shaped" jet console in the footwell and the 2009 Optima has a flat-topped foot jet console. The difference is significant in that you can step on the top of the Optima foot jet console without angling your foot, twisting your ankle, or losing your balance. The Optima console is raised, but only about 1.5". The Optima includes 8 foot jets (two per each corner seat). The Piper Glen "dome-shaped" foot jet console is large and you can't step on top of the dome. Therefore, moving from seat-to-seat in the Piper Glen was more difficult from a safety perspective. The dome is about 5" high (guessing from memory...perhaps more) and only contained 4 jets (one per corner seat). In the Optima, I liked having a foot jet for each foot simultaneously and I did not like trying to maneuver around a large obstacle in the footwell of the Piper Glen.

Now, this difference may not exist if the Sundance Optima floor model you are considering is 2008 or earlier. The 2008 Optima has a "dome-shaped" foot jet console, similar to the Piper Glen. The "flat-topped" console was a design change in the Optima in the 2009 model year.

2. The Artesian Piper Glen was much noisier than the Sundance Optima. I'm sure this was in part due to the fact that the Artesian tubs have more pumps than most other tub manufacturers (one pump each essentially designated for each corner seat). I suspect the additional pumps limit the amount of sound insulation that Artesian can put in the tub. I initially thought that having more pumps would provide a lot of flexibility and power when using the tub. However, I found the strength of the hydrotherapy in all the other manufacturers I wet tested, who had fewer pumps, was sufficient for my water therapy needs. They all tended to be significantly quieter. For me, the negative from the increased noise level far outweighed the benefits of the added pumps. Additionally, the more pumps also mean more expense and more things to break down.

3. The corner seats in the Piper Glen were all very deep. My wife is considerably shorter than I and she was severely limited in her seat options because too many seats were too deep for her to soak comfortably (at least without a bolster seat or cushion, which she did not want to use). This may not be an issue for you, but since you cannot wet test the tubs, it may be something for you to consider. $10K is a lot of money to spend only to find out you, your spouse, significant other, etc., can use only part of the tub.

These were just some of the issues that helped me make my decision between the two tubs you mentioned. As you probably know from this forum, both manufacturers make quality tubs and are routinely recommended. Of course, you should wet test before you buy, but I understand that may not be possible.

Keep in mind, this advise is worth exactly what you paid for it.

Good luck in your decision-making.

gman

gman

Thanks so much for the comparison as it really helps hearing your perspective.

Can you tell me what the neck jets are like as my daughter often has a sore neck from to much violin playing :-) I am tempted to check out the D1 Amore Bay as I like the design of their neck jets in the pillows. I did check the Artesian Island series and we liked the corner jet where the neck jet has a collar and your shoulders are held snugly under an overhang. Seems like a good idea however the jets were not very powerful.

Violinfather,

Sorry for not responding to your question about the neck jets sooner, but I haven't checked the forum in a few days. The neck jets in the Sundance are fine in the two primo corner seats. You will have to wet test each to determine if the position of the neck jets in the collar seat on the Artesian Island series is significantly better for you or your daughter. At first blush, I would assume the collar on the Artesian would be supportive and the neck jets may be more "directed" or "focused". However, I've learned that you cannot make those assumptions. Wet=testing is a must, particularly by your daughter. You and she may find the collar somewhat restrictive and less comfortable than without and the jets not hitting the specific locations that needs attention.

BTW, I found the waterfall in the Optima to be a great soothing water therapy on the back of the neck. It's a softer massage than the jets, but very therapeutic. I do not recall now whether the Artesian has a water fall included in their design, but if it does, I would think you may be able to use their waterfall, if any, in a similar fashion. Try it when you do your water-testing.

I'm sure the neck jets in the Amore Bay pillows is a nice feature. However, I did not wet-test the Amore Bay. I did wet-test the Lotus Bay. It has neck jets in one of the corner seats. I suspect the pillows in the Amore Bay would be similar. Unfortunately, both these D1 tubs have bigger footprint than the Sundance Optima and they would have been pushing the envelope for my space. Additionally, the D1 prices were considerably higher than the Sundance and the closest D1 dealer was 2 hours away. D1 makes a great tub, but the differences in my wet-test experiences between the Sundance Optima and the D1 Lotus Bay were not great enough for me to accept the added price, service and dimension burdens of the D1. For these reasons (amongst others), I chose the Sundance Optima.

Good luck.

gman