Sodium Bromide Levels

[knucklebuster]

good day all,

Well, just got my new arcticspa tundra and it has a sodium bromide "salt" generator system. does anybody know what the proper ppm for sodium bromide is? using the aquachek sodium bromide (bromine generator systems) strips it says I am 9.2 on the strip, which says on the back of the bottle 9.0 is 3584 ppm. does anybody know what is correct, and if this is wrong, what do I do to change it.

Thanks for the help

[waterbear]

good day all,

Well, just got my new arcticspa tundra and it has a sodium bromide "salt" generator system. does anybody know what the proper ppm for sodium bromide is? using the aquachek sodium bromide (bromine generator systems) strips it says I am 9.2 on the strip, which says on the back of the bottle 9.0 is 3584 ppm. does anybody know what is correct, and if this is wrong, what do I do to change it.

Thanks for the help

The strips are actually tesing the amount of hypobromous acid in the water, not the amount of sodium bromide. Your salt water generator acually produces chlorine (sodium hypochlorite) which then oxidized the bromine ions in the water and forms the hypobromous acid ( the active sanitizer in any bromine sanitation system). This is just an automated way of doing a 2 step bromine system where sodium bromide is added to the ewater and then chlorine is added to activate it.

I would suggest that you turn the output on your generator down so it produces less chlorine and this will, in turn, produce less bromine santizer in your water. Your bromine levels should be around 4-6 ppm.

Hope this helps.

[knucklebuster]

The strips are actually tesing the amount of hypobromous acid in the water, not the amount of sodium bromide. Your salt water generator acually produces chlorine (sodium hypochlorite) which then oxidized the bromine ions in the water and forms the hypobromous acid ( the active sanitizer in any bromine sanitation system). This is just an automated way of doing a 2 step bromine system where sodium bromide is added to the ewater and then chlorine is added to activate it.

I would suggest that you turn the output on your generator down so it produces less chlorine and this will, in turn, produce less bromine santizer in your water. Your bromine levels should be around 4-6 ppm.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the info.

would you know if the aquachek total bromine strips will accuratly test a sodium bromide system? the reason why I am asking, we used the tub 2 times now, it changed the color of the swim suits, and the smell is very strong. I believe it is the bromine that is off, also think the ph is high also.

Thanks again

[waterbear]

Thanks for the info.

would you know if the aquachek total bromine strips will accuratly test a sodium bromide system? the reason why I am asking, we used the tub 2 times now, it changed the color of the swim suits, and the smell is very strong. I believe it is the bromine that is off, also think the ph is high also.

Thanks again

Test strips are accurate, however they are not precise which is not the same thing. For example, while the color change of the pH pad is accurate the range of pH that they give you for a particular color make it next to impossible to balance your water correctly. You are not testing the sodium bromide in the water, which you added along with salt when you filled the spa. The sodium bromide creates a 'bromine bank' and the salt is converted into chlorine by the salt water generator. The chlorine then convertes the bromine ions from the sodium bromide into the active bromine sanitizer, hypobromous acid. This is exactly what happens in ANY bromine spa whether it uses a salt generator, sodium bromide and shock (2 step bromine) or sodium bromide, shock and bromine tabs (3-step bromine). I would suggest investing in a GOOD drop based test kit. For bromine systems I like the Taylor Technologies K-2106. The tests are easy to do, produce accurate results, and are very easy to read! You can search for Taylor Technologies on the internet and can order directly from them if you cannot find the kit locally. Many people don't want to spend the money on a good test kit but will spend thousands on the best spa they can get. An investment of about $60 or so in a really good test kit will make maintaining your spa so much easier. You also might want to get a Taylor K-1766 to test for the salt level in your water. It is important to maintain a proper salt level so the salt generator can generate the chlorine that converts the sodium bromide you added to the water to hypobromous acid.

Your bromine levels are too high....this is because your salt generator is turned up too high and is generating too much chlorine. If you had a standard 2 step bromine system this would be equvalent to adding too much shock too often to your spa. Turn your generator's output down and let your bromine level drop to about 4-6 ppm and you should be fine. As far as the smell goes, bromine systems do have a 'chemical' smell' that some people find offensive. This is one of their drawbacks. However, once you get your bromine levels in line you should find the smell is much less noticable and the bleaching of the swimsuits should stop.

[TorontoTubber]

Hello,

Very useful informaton here ... I have the Arctic Spa's Yukon with the salt water system ... very little information on how to properly use / operate it ...

Another question -- when changing the water, what is the right sequence for startup ? do you add bromine ? chorline ? sodium bromide ? how much ? any help is appreciated ...

Thanks!

[TorontoTubber]

I used the AquaCheck Sodium Bromide Test Strips (for Bromine generator systems) -- I got a white peak reading of 9.0 which states a Sodium Bromide level of 3584 ppm ...

Using the regular AquaCheck test strips I get a Total Bromine reading of approx 2.0 -- which states it is on the lower end of "Ideal / Ok" ...

My water hardness, alkalinity, and pH all read in the normal "Ok" range ...

When the Arctic Spa's installer setup my tub, he told me to keep my salt water system cranked to 10, and then turn it down to 9 if the Total Bromine reading stayed within the "Ideal / Ok" range ...

I agree with Waterbear, I think I need a GOOD drop based test kit ...

Also, the Arctic Spa's installer did not show what to do to start the tub when changing the water ...

I was recently told (in store) that I need to add 8 L (8 x bottles) of Brom-Aid (Part A of a two part product santitizer system) ~ 35% Sodium Bromide ... change the filter, and that's it ... the salt water system will take care of the rest ...

My tub capacity is approx 1375 L ... curious if anyone else has any experience with this ??

[waterbear]

Just for a bit of clarification...there are basically 2 ways salt bromine generators are set up, depending on the manufacturer. One way uses sodium bromide exclusively and directly produces hypobromous acid. The other uses sodium chlorine to achieve the salt level(acutally chloride ion level in the water) and then soduim bromide is added to create a "bromide bank" in the water just like any other bromine system that uses chlorine for an oxizider. The cell actually produces chlorine (hypochlorous acid). This then immediately oxidizes the bromide ions in the water into hypobromous acid...the sanitizer we call bromine.)

In either case the chemical tests for the salt level, whether sodium chlorine or sodium bromide is pretty much done the same way with either test strips. If you are using sodium chloride and adding soidum bromide then you can use a chemical test for chloride ions such as the Taylor K_1766 instread of the strips. In either case you can test your bromine levels with a good dop based kit such as the Taylori K-2106 FAS-DPD kit for bromine.

[knucklebuster]

Thanks for the info.

would you know if the aquachek total bromine strips will accuratly test a sodium bromide system? the reason why I am asking, we used the tub 2 times now, it changed the color of the swim suits, and the smell is very strong. I believe it is the bromine that is off, also think the ph is high also.

Thanks again

I am wondering though, how many ppm of sodium bromide should be present in the water, so that the "salt water brominator" can keep the levels of bromine correct.

Thanks

[waterbear]

I am wondering though, how many ppm of sodium bromide should be present in the water, so that the "salt water brominator" can keep the levels of bromine correct.

Thanks

I would contact the manufacturer of your bromine generator for this info (or check the instruction manual) as it will depend on whether your system uses only sodium bromide or uses sodium chloride (salt) and sodium bromide.

[itabb]

It seems to me, that if you do a regular DPD test on your spa, and you get 10ppm or higher, your bathing suit is going to bleach out. You might consider shutting down your generator and just manage the water manually until you understand how it all works. Monitor the water twice a day, with a DPD or FAS-DPD test kit until it is down to 10ppm or less. Then figure out how to incorporate the generator. A fast way to get your active bromine levels down is to leave the spa exposed to the sun. If you want to check to see if you have a bromine bank (sodium bromine), add some bleach (not sure how much yet, waterbear has posted several different amounts for the same 250 gal spa), maybe 2/3 cups per 250 gals, and let sit for an hour or 2. Check and if your DPD is through the roof, then you have a sufficient bromine bank -- which you can tell because you just activated it. Water tempurature shouldn't matter, so don't waste the energy until you get the spa under control. Also, once you get your total bromine down to below 10ppm, post a full set of tests (BR, PH, TA, CA, gallons, salt ppm) so that we can see what is going on. If you think about it, post the same information for your fill water -- not that we need to know, but it might help you understand issues with refilling your tub. Finally, try to find out if your generator is supposed to be generating chlorine or bromine. For my SWG on my pool, I would want a sodium chloride level of about 3300ppm and a Sodium Bromide level of some really low amount if I wanted to generate bromine. This method generates chlorine to activate the bromine bank.

For someone who's figuring this out, how does this sound, Waterbear?

One more thing. My SWG is sized for 100% output on a 25,000 gallon pool. Check how yours is sized and set the percent output accordingly, as a starting point. For example, if I left my pool (15,000 gal) exposed to the sun all day, I'd want to run my SWG during the day around 60% to maintain the chlorine level, to start. Then adjust from there. Your spa is much smaller, I am sure.

[Markus Maximus]

TorontoTubber,

Sounds like your Arctic guy put in the same thing I have - the Genesis system. Your sodium bromide level is a bit high, but should be fine. Get the Taylor K-2106 test kit and check your bromine levels. I keep mine right around 3-PPM which I achieve with a "7" setting on the genesis. I also have the Peak Ozone system. Only complaint I have is that pH keeps rising and I'm needing to add adjust-down fairly regularly to rectify it.

My advice on adjusting the genesis is to start to 10, run it a few days and see where your levels are. Knock it down one notch every couple days until you find it's in your range. Don't turn it down several notches all at once.

[Jacuzzi555]

A standard bromide level should be less than 1500 ppm.

You will need to dilute your spa or drain and refill. If you’re using an electronic bromine system, the use of a bromine granules is not recommended. These contain approx 14% sodium bromide and will gradually increase your bromide bank to high levels, which will damage your generator.

Instead, use MPS or non-chlorine shock to oxyidize the bromide. This will help produce bromine in your spa without adding to the bromide bank you established at startup.

In a manual bromine system, 200-500 ppm of sodium bromide is all you typically need to produce bromine through the use of MPS or non chlorine shock.

In a manual system, bromine granules can be used to give quick boosts to the bromine level, without significant changes to your bromine bank.

Remember to always shock after using the spa to avoid drops in your bromine level and to recoup lost bromine.