cofive Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 I've been hearing a lot about the use of borates, but am unclear as the real benefit. I see that they can significantly increase Ph and requires the use of acid to bring the Ph in check, but what is the benefit? Does it offset other factors? Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcw53 Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Maintaining ~50 ppm borates in your tub will stabilize your pH (inhibit pH rise) and will also make your water feel softer. There are 3 commonly used sources of borates: 20 Mule Team Borax, Boric Acid and ProTeam's Gentle Spa. Only Borax will significantly increase your pH and require the addition of acid to compensate. I'd go with Boric Acid or ProTeam's Gentle Spa to avoid having to compensate for the large rise in pH with the addition of Borax. Boric Acid and Gentle Spa will achieve the same results, but the Boric Acid will be much cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cofive Posted December 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Maintaining ~50 ppm borates in your tub will stabilize your pH (inhibit pH rise) and will also make your water feel softer. There are 3 commonly used sources of borates: 20 Mule Team Borax, Boric Acid and ProTeam's Gentle Spa. Only Borax will significantly increase your pH and require the addition of acid to compensate. I'd go with Boric Acid or ProTeam's Gentle Spa to avoid having to compensate for the large rise in pH with the addition of Borax. Boric Acid and Gentle Spa will achieve the same results, but the Boric Acid will be much cheaper. Thanks Mike. Do borates have any real affect on the skin? I was looking for something to lessen the drying affect of many hot tub dips. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcw53 Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Thanks Mike. Do borates have any real affect on the skin? I was looking for something to lessen the drying affect of many hot tub dips. I don't know if adding borates (e.g. boric acid) will have any noticable effect on dry skin. There are some potential benefits. According to wiseGEEK "Boric acid also has a number of medicinal uses. It works as a mild antiseptic, and it can be effective in the treatment of some skin conditions such as acne and mild rashes. Boric acid also works on yeast and fungal infections, and, in a diluted form, it can be used as an eyewash.". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince22 Posted December 6, 2009 Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 Thanks Mike. Do borates have any real affect on the skin? I was looking for something to lessen the drying affect of many hot tub dips. I don't know if adding borates (e.g. boric acid) will have any noticable effect on dry skin. There are some potential benefits. According to wiseGEEK "Boric acid also has a number of medicinal uses. It works as a mild antiseptic, and it can be effective in the treatment of some skin conditions such as acne and mild rashes. Boric acid also works on yeast and fungal infections, and, in a diluted form, it can be used as an eyewash.". Yup - vet prescribed a mild boric acid eye-wash for my dog's bacterial infection. The pharmacy sells it at an analgesic and antiseptic for minor cuts and burns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chem geek Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 FYI: In an eye wash solution, the Boric Acid concentration is around 15,000 ppm (1.5%) compared to the 50 ppm used in the spa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potpie Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 I tried Gentle spa and put appropriate amount in newly filled tub. I love the way the water felt, now it has been a few weeks and the water feels normal. Is it necessary to have to keep adding a borate product to keep water silky? Will tub filters trap some of the borates in them; I have a Sundance 880 with the new two stage micro ban filter? Just wondering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fry Man Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 I have been following this post and this past weekend added Borax to bring up my Borate to 28 ppm based on the pool calculator. Is there any minimum level I should exceed to get the proper benifits? Adding the Borax caused the pool to go a little cloudy and is this normal? . All of my water balance parameters are good as follows: FC 2-3 with SWG and Ozone PH 7.4 - 7.6 adjusted down at 7.8 to 7.4 steady PH over several days TA Steady at 70 until I added Borax and some fresh water at the same time. Went up to 80. My fresh water is 220. CH 210 unitil I added more water now 220. CYA estimated at 35 based on pool calculator and weights of Dichlor Borates 28 from pool calculator CSI +.1 TO -.3 usually between -.1 and -.3 What should be used to get rid of a slightly cloudy condition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chem geek Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 I tried Gentle spa and put appropriate amount in newly filled tub. I love the way the water felt, now it has been a few weeks and the water feels normal. Is it necessary to have to keep adding a borate product to keep water silky? Will tub filters trap some of the borates in them; I have a Sundance 880 with the new two stage micro ban filter? Just wondering The Borates shouldn't dissipate. They would normally only get removed from physical dilution (carry-out). Perhaps you are just getting used to the nicer feel or something else is happening in the water to compensate for the initial feel from the borates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chem geek Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 I have been following this post and this past weekend added Borax to bring up my Borate to 28 ppm based on the pool calculator. Is there any minimum level I should exceed to get the proper benifits? Adding the Borax caused the pool to go a little cloudy and is this normal? . All of my water balance parameters are good as follows: FC 2-3 with SWG and Ozone PH 7.4 - 7.6 adjusted down at 7.8 to 7.4 steady PH over several days TA Steady at 70 until I added Borax and some fresh water at the same time. Went up to 80. My fresh water is 220. CH 210 unitil I added more water now 220. CYA estimated at 35 based on pool calculator and weights of Dichlor Borates 28 from pool calculator CSI +.1 TO -.3 usually between -.1 and -.3 What should be used to get rid of a slightly cloudy condition? 50 ppm Borates will increase the TA by about 5 ppm so measuring a rise of 10 ppm is in that ballpark. Normally, the borates won't make the water cloudy except initially as it dissolves. Usually the target amount for the Borates is 50 ppm. Let us know if the slight cloudiness continues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pondlife Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 FYI: In an eye wash solution, the Boric Acid concentration is around 15,000 ppm (1.5%) compared to the 50 ppm used in the spa. 50 ppm boric acid is about 450g for 1500 litre spa according to the pool calculator. Is this the sort a weight we should add? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcw53 Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 50 ppm boric acid is about 450g for 1500 litre spa according to the pool calculator. Is this the sort a weight we should add? I added 17.2 oz of Gentle Spa to my 450 gallon spa based on the pool calculator's boric acid calculation. That converts to about 430g / 1500 liters. So, 450g looks about right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.