Wrong Clorox Used ?

[OttawaGreg]

I've been using Clorox 6% now for over a month and all was well. I bought a new bottle the other day and just use it tonight. I added a good 250ml in after using the tub and it foamed up like crazy!

I grabbed the bottle and notice it is Clorox Ultra. I then read the small print. It contains the usual Sodium Hypochlorite but ALSO Sodium Hydroxide.

I'll look into what that is now but has anybody had this happen and what do I need to do next? I hope this didn't just ruin the water and I have to dump it.

I am guessing it is just a very strong dose and will take time to dissipate.. well, I am hoping that is all.

Greg

[quantumchromodynamics]

All bleach and liquid chlorine contain some lye (sodium hydroxide). Clorox will have a pH of about 11.4. There is no problem with the sodium hydroxide.

I am not sure what is causing the foaming. Can you provide more information from the label? Details like SKU number (bar code number), size, sodium hypochlorite concentration, sodium hydroxide concentration and all other information from the label.

[chem geek]

Was it Ultra Javex Bleach by Clorox? As noted in the FAQs, the bleach contains some polyacrylate, but Clorox Regular used in the U.S. also has that and doesn't have foaming problems. Perhaps you were using Ultra Javex Bleach by Clorox HE (note the HE). This is noted as a thicker formula so the thickening agents might cause foaming in hot spa water.

[OttawaGreg]

Was it Ultra Javex Bleach by Clorox? As noted in the FAQs, the bleach contains some polyacrylate, but Clorox Regular used in the U.S. also has that and doesn't have foaming problems. Perhaps you were using Ultra Javex Bleach by Clorox HE (note the HE). This is noted as a thicker formula so the thickening agents might cause foaming in hot spa water.

Yes, that was it, Ultra Javex Bleach by Clorox HE. I did notice I poured more slowly so it was thick. Crap, will a few filter rinses and switching back to the regular bleach get rid of the foaming?

The store ran out of the regular one and only had this make. I read the label carefully to see it didn't contain any scent or other soap. I didn't notice the "HE" for high efficiency. It stated 6% Sodium Hypochlorite, no phosphates. Only last night after the foaming started did I read it also had Sodium Hydroxide. I just checked the tub again this morning and when the jets are on high with air the foaming is still happening.

Maybe I could just run it high and scoop out the foam to reduce it?

Greg

[OttawaGreg]

I've been using Clorox 6% now for over a month and all was well. I bought a new bottle the other day and just use it tonight. I added a good 250ml in after using the tub and it foamed up like crazy!

I grabbed the bottle and notice it is Clorox Ultra. I then read the small print. It contains the usual Sodium Hypochlorite but ALSO Sodium Hydroxide.

I'll look into what that is now but has anybody had this happen and what do I need to do next? I hope this didn't just ruin the water and I have to dump it.

I am guessing it is just a very strong dose and will take time to dissipate.. well, I am hoping that is all.

Greg

Update, to my own posting. I just ran the jets on high for a bit and scooped out allot of the foam. Then I cleaned the filter and put it back. Next I added 3 tbsp of MPS and ran the jets some more. It looks like the foaming is going down.

I took readings and all is fine. pH=7.5, TA=80, CL=2.

I've given the Ultra Clorox jug to the wife for the laundry room and will go out to look for the regular stuff, although I'll likely give it a day or two of just MPS.. there is enough "bleach: in there to last.

Any suggestions are welcome. Although, I may be alone in this boat ;-)

Greg

[bart6453]

I've been using Clorox 6% now for over a month and all was well. I bought a new bottle the other day and just use it tonight. I added a good 250ml in after using the tub and it foamed up like crazy!

I grabbed the bottle and notice it is Clorox Ultra. I then read the small print. It contains the usual Sodium Hypochlorite but ALSO Sodium Hydroxide.

I'll look into what that is now but has anybody had this happen and what do I need to do next? I hope this didn't just ruin the water and I have to dump it.

I am guessing it is just a very strong dose and will take time to dissipate.. well, I am hoping that is all.

Greg

Update, to my own posting. I just ran the jets on high for a bit and scooped out allot of the foam. Then I cleaned the filter and put it back. Next I added 3 tbsp of MPS and ran the jets some more. It looks like the foaming is going down.

I took readings and all is fine. pH=7.5, TA=80, CL=2.

I've given the Ultra Clorox jug to the wife for the laundry room and will go out to look for the regular stuff, although I'll likely give it a day or two of just MPS.. there is enough "bleach: in there to last.

Any suggestions are welcome. Although, I may be alone in this boat ;-)

Greg

well...I would try foam treatment. I should cure the suds a bit. It is most likely just an anti-sudsing agent.

In my past life I used to sell appliances. about once a week a woman would come in the store in tears telling us how she put DAWN dishwashing soap in her dishwasher...note the dishwashing liquid...not AUTOMATIC dishwashing liquid.

We would squirt about 3 ounces of spa no foam into a ziplock and tell her to flll the baggie with water and pour it in the bottom of her dishwasher.

It would kill the suds and get her moving on in life.

anyways....it works on killing soap suds.

you could do that backwards and use glisten (its a dishwasher cleaning/defoaming agent) but I dont think that would be good to soak in!

[quantumchromodynamics]

Clorox® Regular-Bleach ingredients:

Water

Sodium hypochlorite

Sodium chloride

Sodium carbonate

Sodium hydroxide

Sodium polyacrylate

Sodium polyacrylate: 1.Sequestering agents in detergents. (By binding hard water elements such as calcium and magnesium, the surfactants in detergents work more efficiently.) 2.Thickening agents.

Here is a list of the ingredients in Clorox HE bleach.

Clorox® Plus™ High Efficiency Bleach:

Water

Sodium hypochlorite

Sodium chloride

Cetyl betaine

Sodium carbonate.

Sodium hydroxide

Sodium silicate

Sodium xylene sulfonate

Cetyl betaine: C₂₀H₄₁NO₂ or CETYL BETAINE's Molecular formula: C21H43NO2 . Surfactant with good detergency. Used for conditioning shampoos for personal care applications. CETYL BETAINE can used as foam stabilizer and thickener for shampoos.

Xylenesulfonates are used in detergents and shampoos in amounts of up to 10% of the product. They are surfactants, but they are usually added to thicken a mixture like shampoo, and to help keep some other ingredients in solution. This makes the product clear or transparent, as the cloudy precipitates are put back into solution.

http://www.thecloroxcompany.com/cgi-bin/form_ingredients.cgi

[quantumchromodynamics]

I think that whenever you get a bad reaction or really bad chemistry, it is usually best to drain, clean and refill.

I'm not saying to drain for every problem.

However, it is usually the fastest and easiest fix, especially when you are not sure what went wrong.

[OttawaGreg]

I think that whenever you get a bad reaction or really bad chemistry, it is usually best to drain, clean and refill.

I'm not saying to drain for every problem.

However, it is usually the fastest and easiest fix, especially when you are not sure what went wrong.

I inspected the Clorox Ultra (for High Efficiency washing machines) and it is thickened by some additive. They do this so it will poor easier and not splash when adding to your wash. I gather this ingredient is what caused the foaming. I added 250ml of it the other night, so that is not allot. I am hoping I can forgo the dump as it's only been a month almost and the water is perfectly balanced. I'll see tonight, it was already foaming way less yesterday.

If it's still bad then dump it is as it is seasonably warm for this November.

Greg

[styro]

I think that whenever you get a bad reaction or really bad chemistry, it is usually best to drain, clean and refill.

I'm not saying to drain for every problem.

However, it is usually the fastest and easiest fix, especially when you are not sure what went wrong.

I inspected the Clorox Ultra (for High Efficiency washing machines) and it is thickened by some additive. They do this so it will poor easier and not splash when adding to your wash. I gather this ingredient is what caused the foaming. I added 250ml of it the other night, so that is not allot. I am hoping I can forgo the dump as it's only been a month almost and the water is perfectly balanced. I'll see tonight, it was already foaming way less yesterday.

If it's still bad then dump it is as it is seasonably warm for this November.

Greg

Greg I have question .

Since you are from Ottawa and you mention product MPS ,I was wondering where can you get this in Canada?

It comes with label "MPS" or different name?

Thanks

Adam

[OttawaGreg]

I think that whenever you get a bad reaction or really bad chemistry, it is usually best to drain, clean and refill.

I'm not saying to drain for every problem.

However, it is usually the fastest and easiest fix, especially when you are not sure what went wrong.

I inspected the Clorox Ultra (for High Efficiency washing machines) and it is thickened by some additive. They do this so it will poor easier and not splash when adding to your wash. I gather this ingredient is what caused the foaming. I added 250ml of it the other night, so that is not allot. I am hoping I can forgo the dump as it's only been a month almost and the water is perfectly balanced. I'll see tonight, it was already foaming way less yesterday.

If it's still bad then dump it is as it is seasonably warm for this November.

Greg

Greg I have question .

Since you are from Ottawa and you mention product MPS ,I was wondering where can you get this in Canada?

It comes with label "MPS" or different name?

Thanks

Adam

Adam,

I just went into the store (Purewater, Bells Corners - Ottawa west) and asked for Potasium Monopersulfite. They gave me a bottle from SpaBoss called "Energize". 1 kg for $14. It's basicaly 32% Potasium Monopersulfite = MPS.

Most Spa stores will have their own re-brand.

Hope this helps.

Greg

[Vince22]

Adam,

I just went into the store (Purewater, Bells Corners - Ottawa west) and asked for Potasium Monopersulfite. They gave me a bottle from SpaBoss called "Energize". 1 kg for $14. It's basicaly 32% Potasium Monopersulfite = MPS.

Most Spa stores will have their own re-brand.

Hope this helps.

Greg

It's often called Step 2, or activate, or energize. Anything that sounds like it would turn on something else. I've gotten it at Home Depot and Club Piscine here in Ottawa.

[OttawaGreg]

Adam,

I just went into the store (Purewater, Bells Corners - Ottawa west) and asked for Potasium Monopersulfite. They gave me a bottle from SpaBoss called "Energize". 1 kg for $14. It's basicaly 32% Potasium Monopersulfite = MPS.

Most Spa stores will have their own re-brand.

Hope this helps.

Greg

It's often called Step 2, or activate, or energize. Anything that sounds like it would turn on something else. I've gotten it at Home Depot and Club Piscine here in Ottawa.

Yes, the descriptions I have seen often say it activates bromine, but I use bleach (chlorine) and it works to oxidize just the same. It actually says it's part two of a system but all I am after is the MPS. It is pH neutral, so that is great.

As a side note. Over one month now on dychlor/bleach method and things are looking great. I have only once had to adjust the pH with 1 tbsp of borax. Every reading this month has been 7.5 on the dot. The water looks and feels great. I do have to add more often the bleach, even when the tub is not being used, but it's worth it if the water can last 6+ months. If I go a day or two with no use and no bleach I am at zero.

After using the "wrong bleach" I just had to give it a few days (and rinse the filter) and things are OK again, no foaming. So, just use REGULAR 6% Clorox bleach. Don't try anything else period!

Greg

[chem geek]

It sounds like you have a higher-than-normal chlorine demand in your spa. Usually, with no bather load, the FC level should drop around 25% per day (4 to 3 to 2.2 to 1.6, etc.) unless you have an ozonator (an ozonator can oxidize and/or force more outgassing of chlorine when the tub isn't in use). It sounds like you may be seeing more than 50% per day (4 to 2 to 1 or worse) which would be high. You can see how things go and if the situation improves, but if it doesn't then you might consider using Spa System Flush or doing a serious decontamination at your next water change. Did this high demand only start happening after using the wrong bleach or was it like this before?

Oh wait, I see from this post that you do indeed have an ozonator. So the good news is that you probably are able to use less chlorine after each soak compared to the normal rules, but the bad news is that you need to use more chlorine on days when you don't soak. That pattern is pretty typical for those with an ozonator.

Also, don't forget to use Dichlor for about one day per month since the CYA seems to drop around 5 ppm over a month, probably from getting oxidized by chlorine (I also wonder if the ozonator is a factor though I didn't notice any CYA drop differences between those with ozonators vs those without). By the way, going 6 months between water changes would be for 30-40 person-minutes of soaking every day. If you've got a higher bather load than that, you may need to change the water sooner, but in any event you should be able to go longer than if you were using Dichlor alone.