Help With Managing Chemicals In D-1 Nautique

[shelld]

Please help. I have a new D-1 Nautique. Have had it almost a month now. Put the VISION system in one of filters like I was told. Had a flyer that said check ph once a week and prior to use (if going to be heavy use) put some chlorine shock in beforehand. so i did this about a tablespoon or two if it was going to be used by more than just one person (only a few times) and then it says after each use throw in MPS shock. So i have been doing that. Usually it is just me and has been okay. The few times i had 2 or 3 of us it was horribly cloudy the next day anyway. I then used water clarifier and the chlorine shock and it cleared right up. All this time the PH was fine. Now I had to go away Mon-wed last week and this week and last week upon my return it was horrible and no one used it but that time it cleared up in a day after i put the clarifier and shock. this week I came back yesterday and it was nasty looking again and I checked PH was fine so I did the shock and clarifier again and it got worse, checked Ph again and was low, followed directions, added proper amt of spa up and no change so 3 hrs later so added more up. then this morning it was high so added spa down, no change 5 hrs later so added down again, and now the PH is perfect but the water still looks so cloudy that you cant see the bottom. that is not changing at all. I contacted my dealer and he really was not much help, basically saying I have to "trial and error" I need a chart, a list, a plan, something to prevent this from happening each week. It is quite frustrating and I am losing use of it as I wont get in it when it looks so bad. I am ready to toss it in the trash!! PLEASE HELP!

[aschwartz]

Please help. I have a new D-1 Nautique. Have had it almost a month now. Put the VISION system in one of filters like I was told. Had a flyer that said check ph once a week and prior to use (if going to be heavy use) put some chlorine shock in beforehand. so i did this about a tablespoon or two if it was going to be used by more than just one person (only a few times) and then it says after each use throw in MPS shock. So i have been doing that. Usually it is just me and has been okay. The few times i had 2 or 3 of us it was horribly cloudy the next day anyway. I then used water clarifier and the chlorine shock and it cleared right up. All this time the PH was fine. Now I had to go away Mon-wed last week and this week and last week upon my return it was horrible and no one used it but that time it cleared up in a day after i put the clarifier and shock. this week I came back yesterday and it was nasty looking again and I checked PH was fine so I did the shock and clarifier again and it got worse, checked Ph again and was low, followed directions, added proper amt of spa up and no change so 3 hrs later so added more up. then this morning it was high so added spa down, no change 5 hrs later so added down again, and now the PH is perfect but the water still looks so cloudy that you cant see the bottom. that is not changing at all. I contacted my dealer and he really was not much help, basically saying I have to "trial and error" I need a chart, a list, a plan, something to prevent this from happening each week. It is quite frustrating and I am losing use of it as I wont get in it when it looks so bad. I am ready to toss it in the trash!! PLEASE HELP!

Unfortunately, your spa has biofilm it and until you flush that out you will continue to have water management issues. You can go to my website at www.cwsnaturally.com to find out how to eliminate the biofilm, what biofilm is, and how to keep it from returning. All the scientific research over the last 15 years has identified bacterial biofilm as the cause for over 80% of water contamination issues. (http://www.erc.montana.edu/) This link will take to the University of Montana's website so you can see the impact that biofilm has in our enviornment.

[timchase01]

Please help. I have a new D-1 Nautique. Have had it almost a month now. Put the VISION system in one of filters like I was told. Had a flyer that said check ph once a week and prior to use (if going to be heavy use) put some chlorine shock in beforehand. so i did this about a tablespoon or two if it was going to be used by more than just one person (only a few times) and then it says after each use throw in MPS shock. So i have been doing that. Usually it is just me and has been okay. The few times i had 2 or 3 of us it was horribly cloudy the next day anyway. I then used water clarifier and the chlorine shock and it cleared right up. All this time the PH was fine. Now I had to go away Mon-wed last week and this week and last week upon my return it was horrible and no one used it but that time it cleared up in a day after i put the clarifier and shock. this week I came back yesterday and it was nasty looking again and I checked PH was fine so I did the shock and clarifier again and it got worse, checked Ph again and was low, followed directions, added proper amt of spa up and no change so 3 hrs later so added more up. then this morning it was high so added spa down, no change 5 hrs later so added down again, and now the PH is perfect but the water still looks so cloudy that you cant see the bottom. that is not changing at all. I contacted my dealer and he really was not much help, basically saying I have to "trial and error" I need a chart, a list, a plan, something to prevent this from happening each week. It is quite frustrating and I am losing use of it as I wont get in it when it looks so bad. I am ready to toss it in the trash!! PLEASE HELP!

Unfortunately, your spa has biofilm it and until you flush that out you will continue to have water management issues. You can go to my website at www.cwsnaturally.com to find out how to eliminate the biofilm, what biofilm is, and how to keep it from returning. All the scientific research over the last 15 years has identified bacterial biofilm as the cause for over 80% of water contamination issues. (http://www.erc.montana.edu/) This link will take to the University of Montana's website so you can see the impact that biofilm has in our enviornment.

Aschwartz, How in the world do you know that biofilm is the cause of the problems without being there and testing the water? Sure it could be biofilm, it could also be that there isn't enough sanitizer in the water since it is being left for extended periods of time, etc, etc, etc. At least be honest and say that you wonder or that you think it could be biofilm, but to come straight out and say that it is biofilm is misleading. You're simply trying to use scare tactics to sell your product which I find deplorable sir.

As for the original poster of the thread, if you are going to be gone without being able to check your spa on a regular basis, chlorine may not be your best option. You might think about using bromine instead since it stays in the water longer than chlorine. At least this is my understanding after reading many of the threads on this forum. I would also suggest finding a post by Nitro as he has a great post which he links to in the signature of all his posts, about how to balance your water to help prevent PH from swinging from high to low, etc. A lot to digest, but definitely worth the read.

[mcw53]

Aschwartz, How in the world do you know that biofilm is the cause of the problems without being there and testing the water?

If all you've got is a hammer (or you sell hammers), everything looks like a nail.

[shelld]

Please help. I have a new D-1 Nautique. Have had it almost a month now. Put the VISION system in one of filters like I was told. Had a flyer that said check ph once a week and prior to use (if going to be heavy use) put some chlorine shock in beforehand. so i did this about a tablespoon or two if it was going to be used by more than just one person (only a few times) and then it says after each use throw in MPS shock. So i have been doing that. Usually it is just me and has been okay. The few times i had 2 or 3 of us it was horribly cloudy the next day anyway. I then used water clarifier and the chlorine shock and it cleared right up. All this time the PH was fine. Now I had to go away Mon-wed last week and this week and last week upon my return it was horrible and no one used it but that time it cleared up in a day after i put the clarifier and shock. this week I came back yesterday and it was nasty looking again and I checked PH was fine so I did the shock and clarifier again and it got worse, checked Ph again and was low, followed directions, added proper amt of spa up and no change so 3 hrs later so added more up. then this morning it was high so added spa down, no change 5 hrs later so added down again, and now the PH is perfect but the water still looks so cloudy that you cant see the bottom. that is not changing at all. I contacted my dealer and he really was not much help, basically saying I have to "trial and error" I need a chart, a list, a plan, something to prevent this from happening each week. It is quite frustrating and I am losing use of it as I wont get in it when it looks so bad. I am ready to toss it in the trash!! PLEASE HELP!

Unfortunately, your spa has biofilm it and until you flush that out you will continue to have water management issues. You can go to my website at www.cwsnaturally.com to find out how to eliminate the biofilm, what biofilm is, and how to keep it from returning. All the scientific research over the last 15 years has identified bacterial biofilm as the cause for over 80% of water contamination issues. (http://www.erc.montana.edu/) This link will take to the University of Montana's website so you can see the impact that biofilm has in our enviornment.

Aschwartz, How in the world do you know that biofilm is the cause of the problems without being there and testing the water? Sure it could be biofilm, it could also be that there isn't enough sanitizer in the water since it is being left for extended periods of time, etc, etc, etc. At least be honest and say that you wonder or that you think it could be biofilm, but to come straight out and say that it is biofilm is misleading. You're simply trying to use scare tactics to sell your product which I find deplorable sir.

As for the original poster of the thread, if you are going to be gone without being able to check your spa on a regular basis, chlorine may not be your best option. You might think about using bromine instead since it stays in the water longer than chlorine. At least this is my understanding after reading many of the threads on this forum. I would also suggest finding a post by Nitro as he has a great post which he links to in the signature of all his posts, about how to balance your water to help prevent PH from swinging from high to low, etc. A lot to digest, but definitely worth the read.

[chem geek]

New spas contain lots of oils and contaminants that will require you to make your first drain/refill much sooner, usually within one month. Also, as others have noted, you need to maintain sanitizer/oxidizer in your spa at all times so if you are going to be going away then you need to either raise the sanitizer/oxidizer level so it will last or you need to use a system that will release sanitizer/oxidizer regularly (such as bromine tablets -- but I don't think that's compatible with the Vision cartridge). This older thread talks about a D1 tub with a Vision cartridge. If you are only gone for a few days (not a week or more), then you can consider using the Dichlor-then-bleach method described by Nitro here.

[aschwartz]

Please help. I have a new D-1 Nautique. Have had it almost a month now. Put the VISION system in one of filters like I was told. Had a flyer that said check ph once a week and prior to use (if going to be heavy use) put some chlorine shock in beforehand. so i did this about a tablespoon or two if it was going to be used by more than just one person (only a few times) and then it says after each use throw in MPS shock. So i have been doing that. Usually it is just me and has been okay. The few times i had 2 or 3 of us it was horribly cloudy the next day anyway. I then used water clarifier and the chlorine shock and it cleared right up. All this time the PH was fine. Now I had to go away Mon-wed last week and this week and last week upon my return it was horrible and no one used it but that time it cleared up in a day after i put the clarifier and shock. this week I came back yesterday and it was nasty looking again and I checked PH was fine so I did the shock and clarifier again and it got worse, checked Ph again and was low, followed directions, added proper amt of spa up and no change so 3 hrs later so added more up. then this morning it was high so added spa down, no change 5 hrs later so added down again, and now the PH is perfect but the water still looks so cloudy that you cant see the bottom. that is not changing at all. I contacted my dealer and he really was not much help, basically saying I have to "trial and error" I need a chart, a list, a plan, something to prevent this from happening each week. It is quite frustrating and I am losing use of it as I wont get in it when it looks so bad. I am ready to toss it in the trash!! PLEASE HELP!

Unfortunately, your spa has biofilm it and until you flush that out you will continue to have water management issues. You can go to my website at www.cwsnaturally.com to find out how to eliminate the biofilm, what biofilm is, and how to keep it from returning. All the scientific research over the last 15 years has identified bacterial biofilm as the cause for over 80% of water contamination issues. (http://www.erc.montana.edu/'>http://www.erc.montana.edu/) This link will take to the University of Montana's website so you can see the impact that biofilm has in our enviornment.

Aschwartz, How in the world do you know that biofilm is the cause of the problems without being there and testing the water? Sure it could be biofilm, it could also be that there isn't enough sanitizer in the water since it is being left for extended periods of time, etc, etc, etc. At least be honest and say that you wonder or that you think it could be biofilm, but to come straight out and say that it is biofilm is misleading. You're simply trying to use scare tactics to sell your product which I find deplorable sir.

As for the original poster of the thread, if you are going to be gone without being able to check your spa on a regular basis, chlorine may not be your best option. You might think about using bromine instead since it stays in the water longer than chlorine. At least this is my understanding after reading many of the threads on this forum. I would also suggest finding a post by Nitro as he has a great post which he links to in the signature of all his posts, about how to balance your water to help prevent PH from swinging from high to low, etc. A lot to digest, but definitely worth the read.

I am not the one saying that biofilm is the problem, the scientific research community is saying that biofilm is the problem that is why I encourage everyone to go to the website (http://www.erc.montana.edu) where the research is published. We have no influence over the unversities.

It is amazing though once people understand what is causing the problems (ie.biofilm) and take steps to address these issues, how simple it becomes to manage their pool and spa water. We hear all the time from end users that finally are getting the experience they thought they were getting when they purchased their spa. Throwing more and more chemicals at a problem with all the side effects is not the answer. This is especially true when you discover like we did that nature has been way ahead of us all the time.

[Nitro]

I am not the one saying that biofilm is the problem, the scientific research community is saying that biofilm is the problem that is why I encourage everyone to go to the website (http://www.erc.montana.edu) where the research is published. We have no influence over the unversities.

It is amazing though once people understand what is causing the problems (ie.biofilm) and take steps to address these issues, how simple it becomes to manage their pool and spa water. We hear all the time from end users that finally are getting the experience they thought they were getting when they purchased their spa. Throwing more and more chemicals at a problem with all the side effects is not the answer. This is especially true when you discover like we did that nature has been way ahead of us all the time.

It costs ~$20 per month to use your product(s). I spend only a few dollars a month to maintain my water now. My Chlorine Demand (CD) is the same (~25%) as the day I refilled my tub almost 6 months ago. I don't know if your product will reduce biofilm. That needs to be proved by you. However, I do know it cannot reduce my CD any lower then it is now. Even if it could lower my CD to zero (impossible), it wouldn't be cost effective. My question for you is, why should I spend an extra $20/mo for a product that won't lower my CD and/or my cost?

[chem geek]

All the scientific research over the last 15 years has identified bacterial biofilm as the cause for over 80% of water contamination issues. (http://www.erc.montana.edu/'>http://www.erc.montana.edu/) This link will take to the University of Montana's website so you can see the impact that biofilm has in our enviornment.

:

:

I am not the one saying that biofilm is the problem, the scientific research community is saying that biofilm is the problem that is why I encourage everyone to go to the website (http://www.erc.montana.edu) where the research is published. We have no influence over the unversities.

It is amazing though once people understand what is causing the problems (ie.biofilm) and take steps to address these issues, how simple it becomes to manage their pool and spa water. We hear all the time from end users that finally are getting the experience they thought they were getting when they purchased their spa. Throwing more and more chemicals at a problem with all the side effects is not the answer. This is especially true when you discover like we did that nature has been way ahead of us all the time.

Allan,

I read through the publicly available scientific research and I agree with you that it is a good source of information, but you can't make a leap that spa problems are due to biofilms. If there is high chlorine demand, then that is one thing and may be due to biofilms in some situations (especially if sanitation has been spotty), but many spa issues aren't related to high chlorine demand. No one here on this forum pushes throwing chemicals to solve problems. If you've read Nitro's guide to spa maintenance you would see that it is very simple -- you set it up once at the start and can then go for many months without water issues primarily just by using bleach (after initially using Dichlor for a week or so).

In swimming pools, there are many different kinds of problems, most of which have absolutely nothing to do with biofilms. The most common cause of excessive chlorine demand is a low FC/CYA ratio (i.e. active chlorine or hypochlorous acid level) that allows algae to grow faster than chlorine can kill it and this is often due to continued use of stabilized chlorine (Trichlor, Dichlor) that build up the Cyanuric Acid (CYA) level. Biofilms are rarely an issue in residential pools, though in commercial/public pools using sand filters (and more rarely in residential pools with sand filters) there can be biofilms and the associated channeling in such filters. There are over 20,000 pool owners at The Pool Forum and over 10,000 at Trouble Free Pool who manage their pools using primarily only chlorinating liquid or bleach (or an SWG system) at very low cost and with clear beautiful pools. My 16,000 gallon pool, shown here costs me only $17 per month in 12.5% chlorinating liquid and a very small amount of acid. No one here nor on these other websites are promoting dumping lots of chemicals in the pools to solve problems. I don't use algicides, phosphate removers, or any other chemicals nor do I need to regularly shock the pool.

The key is to avoid problems in the first place by properly setting up and then maintaining water chemistry, circulation, etc.

Richard

[aschwartz]

All the scientific research over the last 15 years has identified bacterial biofilm as the cause for over 80% of water contamination issues. (http://www.erc.montana.edu/'>http://www.erc.montana.edu/) This link will take to the University of Montana's website so you can see the impact that biofilm has in our enviornment.

:

:

I am not the one saying that biofilm is the problem, the scientific research community is saying that biofilm is the problem that is why I encourage everyone to go to the website (http://www.erc.montana.edu) where the research is published. We have no influence over the unversities.

It is amazing though once people understand what is causing the problems (ie.biofilm) and take steps to address these issues, how simple it becomes to manage their pool and spa water. We hear all the time from end users that finally are getting the experience they thought they were getting when they purchased their spa. Throwing more and more chemicals at a problem with all the side effects is not the answer. This is especially true when you discover like we did that nature has been way ahead of us all the time.

Allan,

I read through the publicly available scientific research and I agree with you that it is a good source of information, but you can't make a leap that spa problems are due to biofilms. If there is high chlorine demand, then that is one thing and may be due to biofilms in some situations (especially if sanitation has been spotty), but many spa issues aren't related to high chlorine demand. No one here on this forum pushes throwing chemicals to solve problems. If you've read Nitro's guide to spa maintenance you would see that it is very simple -- you set it up once at the start and can then go for many months without water issues primarily just by using bleach (after initially using Dichlor for a week or so).

In swimming pools, there are many different kinds of problems, most of which have absolutely nothing to do with biofilms. The most common cause of excessive chlorine demand is a low FC/CYA ratio (i.e. active chlorine or hypochlorous acid level) that allows algae to grow faster than chlorine can kill it and this is often due to continued use of stabilized chlorine (Trichlor, Dichlor) that build up the Cyanuric Acid (CYA) level. Biofilms are rarely an issue in residential pools, though in commercial/public pools using sand filters (and more rarely in residential pools with sand filters) there can be biofilms and the associated channeling in such filters. There are over 20,000 pool owners at The Pool Forum and over 10,000 at Trouble Free Pool who manage their pools using primarily only chlorinating liquid or bleach (or an SWG system) at very low cost and with clear beautiful pools. My 16,000 gallon pool, shown here costs me only $17 per month in 12.5% chlorinating liquid and a very small amount of acid. No one here nor on these other websites are promoting dumping lots of chemicals in the pools to solve problems. I don't use algicides, phosphate removers, or any other chemicals nor do I need to regularly shock the pool.

The key is to avoid problems in the first place by properly setting up and then maintaining water chemistry, circulation, etc.

Richard

Bacteria and bacterial biofilms are everywhere in our enviornment according to every recent publication I have read.(http://discovermagazine.com/2009/jul-aug/17-slime-city-germs-talk-each-other-plan-attacks/?searchterm=Slime) I would venture that if there was a test for biofilm, most if not all of the pools and spas have some form of biofilm in them right now. As you rightly pointed out, most of these pools might not be causing problems for their owners and I am glad for that because I want this industry to flourish. I can tell you that I have yet to flush a spa that doesn't exibit a biofilm discharge even for operators that are dilligent in their chemistry maintenance.

This Cyanuric Acid discussion is a classic case of the cure being worse than the problem. We believe that the free chlorine absorption that scientist now attribute to biofilm was mistakenly totally diagnosed as UV degredation. Then CYA was introduced without any solid research or patents and this whole industry adopted as fact that CYA shields the chlorine molecule from UV.The chemists outside of the pool and spa industry look at the molecular structures of these two chemicals and can't believe anyone would believe this effect is possible. CYA has no busness being in a spa because even at 20ppm it is retarding the oxidating effects of chlorine but this industry regularly sells DiChlor to use in spas.

Furthermore, we have been eliminating CYA in both commercial and residential pools with amazing results. Once our systems is added and CYA readings drop to zero, chlorine consumption dropped up to 50% while maintaining FAC readings of 2ppm and Combined Chlorine near zero with Turbity readings of zero as well. None of these pools required shocking or algeacides. You can see the press conference where the Mayor of St. Paul announced the results;

It is important that this biofilm and its effects be bought to the attention of the pool and spa industry because it has been under the radar for over 15 years. Did you know that the pH readings at the bottom of biofilms are less than one which is highly corrosive. Scientists now believe that most if not all rust and corrosion in a pool or spa can be attributed directly to biofilms.

[timchase01]

"Did you know that the pH readings at the bottom of biofilms are less than one which is highly corrosive. Scientists now believe that most if not all rust and corrosion in a pool or spa can be attributed directly to biofilms."

I'm curious to see the research on this. If you can point me to the scientific journal where you found the information on the corrosive nature of biofilms and how scientists now believe that most rust and corrosion in pool's and spa's are attributed to the biofilms I would appreciate it. I just got a new spa and want to treat it as best as I can.

[chem geek]

Allan,

You must be kidding me. You are claiming that chlorine consumption is dropping in pools (exposed to sunlight) with no CYA in them. This is very bad advice for residential pools and there are thousands upon thousands of pool owners who see how higher CYA levels lower chlorine loss and that zero CYA causes much much more rapid loss in direct sunlight. How can you possibly suggest such a thing as not using any CYA in residential outdoor pools? People do not want to add more chlorine than they need and they'd have to add a lot more than 2 ppm FC per day if they took your advice. Now too much CYA is a problem as well, but zero CYA in a residential pool exposed to direct sunlight will lose nearly half the chlorine (FC) level every 30-60 minutes near noontime.

It is true that in high bather load situations as in some commercial/public pools the bulk of the chlorine is used for oxidation of bather waste (mostly urea and ammonia from sweat and urine) so the protection effect from CYA is not nearly as great so anything above 30 ppm won't show much benefit at all (and I wouldn't go higher anyway in order to provide sufficient sanitation and especially oxidation in such pools). Having zero CYA would only work if the bather load was quite high consuming more than 1-2 ppm FC per hour at noontime sun. Otherwise, breakdown from sunlight would be higher than the bather load consumption. See this file (you need to add a .pdf extension since this is a PDF file) that shows the spectral absorption curves for HOCl and OCl^- and their quantum yields (which at pool concentrations is about 1 which means that any absorbed photon results in breakdown of the molecule or ion). Also see this paper for some UV absorption data for both CYA and some of the chlorinated isocyanurates. There are many other links measuring chlorine breakdown in sunlight even in distilled water (with chlorine, of course) with NO bacteria -- I can hardly believe that you think that it doesn't happen. Indoor residential pools and outdoor pools with opaque pool covers have far lower chlorine consumption than those exposed to sunlight, even with CYA in the water though having the CYA cuts down the loss considerably.

CYA doesn't protect chlorine from breakdown from sunlight only by shielding lower depths of water, but mostly by having chlorine bind to CYA where such bound compound is more resistant from breakdown from sunlight. The O'Brien paper I linked to gives the detailed info on the chlorine/CYA relationship definitively determined since at least 1974.

When there is no CYA in the water at all, then the chlorine is TOO strong unless you use very low FC levels. At such stronger levels, as typically found in indoor pools and apparently your outdoor pools, the production of nitrogen trichloride is theoretically much higher and I write about this in this post. There are other ways of handling this, of course, and the European approach with German DIN standard 19643 is to use low FC levels of 0.3 to 0.6 ppm with no CYA but with filtration systems that include activated carbon that strips all chloramines from the water AND chlorine as well so that needs to be reinjected.

If you do not use any CYA at all in residential spas, you will degrade the spa covers much, much faster. The chlorine is simply too strong. Remember that the active chlorine (hypochlorous acid) concentration is a function of the FC/CYA ratio. You are right that CYA moderates chlorine's strength, but that is a good thing since it is too strong at 2 pm FC or higher by itself. It oxidizes too quickly so produces more nitrogen trichloride and is harsher on skin, swimsuits and hair. It also outgasses faster so smells more intense. So you should either have a low FC with no CYA such as the German DIN standard or use CYA at an appropriate FC/CYA ratio. A ratio of 20%, such as 4 ppm FC with 20 ppm CYA would result in roughly the equivalent of 0.2 ppm with no CYA (at 77F; up to 0.7 at 104F) and be a decent balance between sufficient oxidation and sanitation but not too high so as to keep nitrogen trichloride levels lower and not oxidize or corrode as quickly.

Now I am all for removing biofilms. As the Creative Water Solutions website describes, "Wherever a surface has moisture and bacteria, there’s biofilm. To survive and multiply, bacteria form colonies and create a protective shield which we call biofilm." This is the website of the product referred to in the video link you gave. If you have chlorine in the water, then bacteria are killed VERY quickly, long before they are able to form biofilms. Yes, if the CYA levels are too high (technically, the FC/CYA ratio too low), then biofilms could form to the degree that chlorine can't break them down. The product being pushed here is sphagnum moss. What wasn't explained was how such moss in filters prevents biofilm formation on pool surfaces. Yes, it may be better than a sand filter where biofilm may form due to uneven circulation and channeling, but it didn't explain anything about biofilm prevention on surfaces since the moss isn't in the bulk pool water itself. Dryden Aqua also sells AFM filters designed to prevent biofilms in the filter, but Dr. Dryden makes no claims of preventing biofilms in the bulk pool water surfaces and his filter is essentially a special activated form of crushed glass that inhibits bacterial growth.

As for spas, the chlorine demand from users on this and other websites is almost exactly as predicted based on soak time and sweat amounts. There does not appear to be any mysterious chlorine demand in cases where a spa is maintained properly. The main exception is for a new spa where a water change needs to occur more quickly due to the extra surface chemicals found in a new spa. There could be ZERO biofilm and you would STILL need an oxidizer to get rid of the bather waste. If the product were an enzyme, then that could help break down such bather waste more quickly with dissolved oxygen and that would reduce chlorine demand, but that isn't what is claimed by sphagnum moss.

Why don't you just come out and say that you are pushing this sphagnum moss product? Do you work for Creative Water Solutions? Do you sell their product?

Richard

[Nitro]

Why don't you just come out and say that you are pushing this sphagnum moss product? Do you work for Creative Water Solutions? Do you sell their product?

BINGO!

It's nothing but another attempt to sway us from the tried and true method of good ol' Chlorine. Even if this "Moss" did what they claim, Chlorine does it at a tenth of the cost.