Still No Chlorine

[spookyproud]

We are relatively new pool owners. We installed in July 08. AG pool with vinyl liner, I cant remember the diameter-either but 24' round or larger. 13500 gallons of water. Maybe that helps.

Last year I had high chlorine levels of 7ppm or above. We removed tabs and barely had the floater opened. We did have this beige sediment in the bottom of the pool constantly but no help from the pool store as to what it was. We would clean etc but it would be back the next day.

They recommended we run the pump either 2 hours a day on high or 8 hours on low. Its a 2.0 pump.

So we get to this year and the old pool place pissed me off because they sold us a $200 cover for the pool that fell apart after 4 months and later found out it was only a $80 cover.

Started going to new pool place in town. We opened our pool and things went well the first few weeks. The guy at the pool place said to ignore the test results of the alkalinity test---it was wrong. Everything was good.

We then started having this one girl helping us and she kept saying weekly that we had to add 6lbs of akalinity. Everything went to heck really fast. No Chlorine---Algae growing (green) everywhere. She kept telling us to shock it. I called later and got this guy who then yelled at me for shocking it. IDK why. Then the last straw was the other day I told her the algae was back with a vengence and she gave me algaecide with copper. Told me it was fine to use in my above ground pool with a vinyl liner.

I then came here (I found this forum after I had added the copper) I was very angry. Both last year and this years pool businesses have basically been unhelpful and they love to say " I dont know" a lot.

My pool turned white...we couldnt see the sides, bottom or ladder in the pool.

Finally--I tried one more pool place- one that was recommended to me. This person sat down with me for over an hour explaining this and that.

Here are my test results before I added the chemicals she recommended. I have NOT had it retested yet because I still have to shock one more time.

Store I like

Total Chlorine 0

Free chlorine 3

Combine C 0

PH 7.6

Alkalinity 200 ppm

Calcium hardness 375 ppm

stabilizer 30 ppm

Total dissolved solids 800 ppm

Here are the test from the store I dont like--and kept having me add alkaline

TC 2.6 Had just shocked night before this test--as per instructed by pool place

FC 2.4

CC 0.2 (I kept asking why?? and Got the "I DONT KNOW" answer)

PH 7.6

Alkalinity 100ppm

Calcium 250

stabilizer 45ppm

dissolved solids not run

It seems the sand type sediment on the bottom of the pool (this year it seems to float more) is mustard algae. The green stuff of course is green algae-which we knew that.

First she had me remove the metal with a metal control liquid.

Then because of all the alkalinity that I was adding (it was 200ppm) she had me add muriatic acid.

Then that night I added liquid chlorine (we had previously been using the granule shock) The only downside to using the liquid is you cannot swim for 24 hours.

Then I added "stop Yellow" to kill the mustard algae.

My pool is now crystal clear. I have never seen it so beautiful.

I then was able to add the stabilizer last night.

I have been running this pump--24 hours a day since Tuesday. She said I needed to do this until it was clear. Of course I still need to run it 24 hours after adding the stabilizer. Tonight I am scheduled to add liquid chlorine to shock the pool again.

I am now up to five chlorine tabs in our floater--opened all the way. The floater sits in front of the skimmer so I would think the water running through it would help distribute it throughout the pool. Zero chlorine in the pool.

I cannot figure this out as to why this is happening. I replaced last years product with a new product last week--thinking maybe the tabs were old--even tho they are individually wrapped. Still no chlorine unless we shock the pool.

I really didnt want to add a inline chlorinator but it seems that is where we are headed. Its just odd that last year we couldnt keep the chlorine down to a safe level--this year I cannot keep it up.

Is there something we are missing or not thinking of. Do you use more than one floater in the pool?

Also-green algae is on my ladder this morning--but my son probably had a hard time seeing it the other day when cleaning. It was under the ladder-not sure if the algae is back or not.

I have learned that you have to run the pump for one hour for every ten degrees outside. So if its 90 degrees---nine hourse on the pump and filter.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. We have a five yr old with cancer who swims in this pool. (have told every pool business this) and only this last one seems to be taking that into consideration. Last year he got lung infection and almost died---3 weeks after getting the pool. Treated everyday IV for 4 months. The doctor could never identify what was in his lungs. I now wonder if it was the mustard algae. We have been instructed by this latest pool person to keep him out if there is any algae and she is convinced that the sand like sediment on the bottom is mustard algae. Like I said---I have no sediment now nor white stuff floating around after this latest treatment.

I was told that in Florida they are seeing algae blooms everywhere.

THANK YOU!!!

[imnay]

First, my Disclaimer - when it comes to pool chemistry I get in trouble with the serious pool chemistry SMEs BUT all I share is our personal aGPool experience which is the same way we have approached treating the water for over 20 years and for over 20 years we have had crystal clear water - it ain't rocket science no matter how some try to make it that way - LOL.

Also - my terms are what our installation contractor gave us way back then - please forgive if you put different names on things.

Anytime we have little or no available chlorine that means, to us, that our chlorine is "bound up" and not free OR there is simply no chlorine in the pool. We have 100% fixed this by adding liquid chlorine (not stabilized) in enough qualtity to cause a thorough shock - the more bound up the chlorine to more liquid chlorine is required until our test kit assures us a "shock" has occured.

So, I would say Step One is do a complete shock. We have never used powder shock which is a very expensive shock method and liquid chlorine does the exact same thing - I guess bleach does too but we have never used it.

The Two basic levels have to be in correct range

PH - if low add Soda Ash (not a "ton" at once - we have 22.5k gallons and we add five to six pounds then wait a few hours and re-test and add more as needed).

PH - if too high add acid - in careful increments - with our vinyl liner we make sure the water is circulating at max and add a couple of cups of acid at a time.

Alkalinity - if low add Sodium Bicarbonate (same increments as above for PH).

Alkalinity - if hign add muriatic acid - same as above.

Once the shock has been done then stabilized sanitizer (we use chlorine for a sanitizer) must be maintained at proper level monitored with simple test kit.

Once the shock has been done then add a good algaecide - we use a brand that suggests application every two weeks and it WORKS.

That's It - PH and Alkalinity stabilized at correct level PLUS stabilized chlorine at good level PLUS good algaecide and then do a lot of filtering until the water becomes crystal clear which if the above is carefully done it must.

Honestly - we have never worried about total chlorine versus free chlorine

We have never bothered with the added layer of complication of using a separate bleach and stabilizer - tri-chlor tabs work just like it says on their label.

We have always used liquid chlorine to shock or to add un stabilized chlorine and always used a simple 4-way test kit from our local hardware store - 50 lb bags of soda ash and 50 lb bags of sodium bicarbonate and gallon jugs of liquid muriatic acid.

I am sure that there is real value worrying about the other stuff BUT I can say with honesty that in over 20 yrs of having crystal clear water in our AGPool we have just kept it simple cause we're stupid BUT IT HAS WORKED!!

LOL and good luck with your pool

[imnay]

I posted again to add since you mention them that we have had an in-line Hayward large chlorinator the whole 20 plus years and it works great is is a real aid in keeping a proper level of stabilized chlorine in our pool.

About every five days I add seven or eight 3 inch tabs to it and it is such a hassle eliminator.

Again, our experience is that if you use tri-chlor tabs with stabilizer built in and your free chlorine drops a simple liquid shock will fix things right up - or it always works for us.

If you use a long lasting rated algaecide you will not have algae!

[chem geek]

As I noted in this post giving more details about imnay's situation, if you don't have regular dilution of water such as the rain overflow that imnay does then you can overdose a copper-based algaecide which can lead to staining, though that is a lower risk in a vinyl pool than a plaster pool (or fiberglass pool). Also, if you don't have regular dilution of the water, then continued use of Trichlor pucks will lead to higher stabilizer (CYA) levels making the chlorine less effective. So after a while you'll need to regularly shock to keep the pool from getting cloudy, as imnay does, and you'll have to use an algaecide without fail, like imnay does (except, apparently, over the winter).

There are other alternatives, but why do anything different when 20 years of experience must clearly apply to everyone else's situation?

[spookyproud]

I think this newest pool business is helping me---My pool wouldnt be as clean as it is now.

I am amazed at how these businesses stay in business. We walked out weekly at the first pool place with at least $100 of chemicals each week for three months last year.

The second just kept selling me Alkilinity and granual shock but never helped me figure out what was wrong. They never had me add stabilizer this year and I had forgotten what it was.

The third pool business had me add the stabilizer the other night---and the 2nd shock last night. We will see how it holds the chlorine now. As I said in my first post--We have changed to the liquid chlorine that so far I do like. The bags of shock just didnt seem to do the job for us. I would just like to get into a routine---know exactly what I need--and do it. Simple. Some of us have blond hair--so the copper wouldnt have been good for us. It didnt stain our pool but it was only in for about 24 hours before I figured it out.

I wish I had known that you could add a bottom skimmer (IDK if thats the name for it) and make the pool deeper. If we were just now adding our pool, I would definitely recommend doing that. It seems one side skimmer just doesnt do the trick to keep such a large pool clean.

I am still waiting to add the new algaecide with clarifier.

I am still learning the terms. It seems (like Medicine) that everything has several different names- Generic vs brand name vs what pool store you go to etc. Oh and the grocery store purchased borax and chlorine. Dont think I will be doing that right now considering that I dont know enough about all of the water chemistry to do that on my own. I just wish the pool stores were more reliable.

So with that--if anyone has a problem with their pool store---go to another one until you finally get the right answers. (last week I sent my husband with water to several different pool places--to see what each one of them said. You can always tell them you already have the chemical at home that they are trying to sell you. Then carefully choose which one you want to do business with. The first two we went to, they seemed like they just never had the 5 minutes to spare to help me.

The last one was not short on staff---she sat down with me for over an hour. Look for that kind of a store...is my advice. Oh...and if it doesnt feel right ( I kept wondering why I was adding this alkalinity and no answers as to why it would go down) really gave me a heads up they were not concerned on helping me stabilize my pool.

Thanks for the heads up chem geek.

[spookyproud]

As I noted in this post giving more details about imnay's situation, if you don't have regular dilution of water such as the rain overflow that imnay does then you can overdose a copper-based algaecide which can lead to staining, though that is a lower risk in a vinyl pool than a plaster pool (or fiberglass pool). Also, if you don't have regular dilution of the water, then continued use of Trichlor pucks will lead to higher stabilizer (CYA) levels making the chlorine less effective. So after a while you'll need to regularly shock to keep the pool from getting cloudy, as imnay does, and you'll have to use an algaecide without fail, like imnay does (except, apparently, over the winter).

There are other alternatives, but why do anything different when 20 years of experience must clearly apply to everyone else's situation?

Well,well,well.....I am finding all sorts of things....Thank you for so many links!

I figured out why I had too high of chlorine last year. They kept having me add stabilizer to the skimmer last year. I think I did it 3 times in 6 weeks. DANG!! I was only shocking every 10 days because they were yelling at me that the chlorine was too high....I only had one chlorine tab in the floater and it was turned down to one lil opening. WOW. I had to figure out what the CYA was....now I know. Thank you again!!

[chem geek]

I assume you found the primary link to the Pool School. As noted there, you CAN manage your pool using unstabilized chlorine (chlorinating liquid or bleach or sometimes Cal-Hypo) with a fixed amount of Cyanuric Acid (CYA aka stabilizer or conditioner) in the water and not need to shock, but these sources of chlorine require daily or every other day addition unless you have a pool cover. It is one approach to pool maintenance that is low in cost, but can be less convenient. I have a pool cover so add chlorine twice a week and it costs me around $15 per month for my 16,000 gallon pool. The pH is very stable with a small amount of acid added every month or two.

Another approach is to use stabilized chlorine (usually Trichlor tabs/pucks) as your primary source of chlorine, but then use a supplemental algaecide or phosphate remover to prevent algae growth and shock with unstabilized chlorine as needed, especially as the CYA level climbs. If you've got enough dilution, then you can get to a somewhat stable CYA level and live with this approach; otherwise, it can cause problems. The use of Trichlor is convenient, but it is very acidic and increases CYA levels which is why those "extra" products (algaecide) and techniques (shocking) are required.

Either way, at least with the Pool School education you will be in charge of your pool, know what is going on, and do a better job of maintaining it than most any pool service or pool store.

[spookyproud]

Yes, the links were very helpful to tell me what the problems were in the past. Right now, no problems. I did turn my floater down since adding the CYA/stabilizer and it is still holding chlorine 36 hours after. Actually too high but I am hoping with todays sun it will go down a bit to a safer level to swim.

I will be taking a pool care class here in a few weeks. Pool looks beautiful for the first time we have had it.

I am going to remove my ladder this weekend and give it a thorough scrub with chlorine to make sure there is no algae underneath that we have missed.

Thank you again for your help and the links.